How will the end of ICE availability affect buyer attitudes?
Discussion
If you always buy your next car brand new, then these arguments are interesting.
I agree with the person who said that the biggest cost of this method of transport acquisition is depreciation.
Approximately double all the other running costs added together, ignoring interest on the financing.
I have done the maths on a company car I am selling.
I personally run old sheds, nothing newer than 20 years old. All petrol or diesel.
I like the idea of doing the bulk of my miles on battery, as my mileage is mainly within a 25 mile range of my home.
But I don't want to spend thousands of pounds a year on depreciation.
When the day comes, and I can buy for a couple of grand a 15-20 year old PHEV on which the battery has been replaced, I will be first in the queue to buy it.
I agree with the person who said that the biggest cost of this method of transport acquisition is depreciation.
Approximately double all the other running costs added together, ignoring interest on the financing.
I have done the maths on a company car I am selling.
I personally run old sheds, nothing newer than 20 years old. All petrol or diesel.
I like the idea of doing the bulk of my miles on battery, as my mileage is mainly within a 25 mile range of my home.
But I don't want to spend thousands of pounds a year on depreciation.
When the day comes, and I can buy for a couple of grand a 15-20 year old PHEV on which the battery has been replaced, I will be first in the queue to buy it.
Ankh87 said:
Otherwise I can say that my partner does not notice any difference driving an auto ICE to an EV.
From this I think it is pretty easy to determine 1 of 3 things:This is a lie, and your partner has never driven an EV.
They are missing 2 of the 5 main senses.
You are making stuff up.
If someone genuinely can't tell they are driving an EV compared to any form of ICE vehicle, I genuinely worry about their competence to drive a car in the first place.
First time my partner drove an EV she was blown away, so is now buying one.
JD said:
From this I think it is pretty easy to determine 1 of 3 things:
This is a lie, and your partner has never driven an EV.
They are missing 2 of the 5 main senses.
You are making stuff up.
If someone genuinely can't tell they are driving an EV compared to any form of ICE vehicle, I genuinely worry about their competence to drive a car in the first place.
First time my partner drove an EV she was blown away, so is now buying one.
My partner couldn't even tell the difference between my old performance 4wd car and her eco box. She doesn't put her foot down to notice the difference. She even says should couldn't tell the difference between any car other than one is higher up than the other. You fail to register that some people drive like miss daisy and you could give them a Golf R and a Golf 1.2, to which they'd never notice. Her interest in cars is so little that when we looked at cars, all she said is I like the colour of that one. Yet one was some sort of SUV thing and the other one she liked was a small hatchback. Both drove differently but she drives like miss daisy and so 0-30mph took 12 days regardless.This is a lie, and your partner has never driven an EV.
They are missing 2 of the 5 main senses.
You are making stuff up.
If someone genuinely can't tell they are driving an EV compared to any form of ICE vehicle, I genuinely worry about their competence to drive a car in the first place.
First time my partner drove an EV she was blown away, so is now buying one.
ZesPak said:
But has she driven an EV or is that your conjecture based on her seemingly dangerous lack of perception?
Baffling isn't it. My wife on the other hand won't even consider a non EV for daily duties now as is of the opinion the difference in the drivetrain is like.night and dsy. And thats coming from driving numerous.large capacity and pretty refined ICE cars with well regarded auto boxes.
ZesPak said:
But has she driven an EV or is that your conjecture based on her seemingly dangerous lack of perception?
The SUV thing (was that MG) was an EV the small hatchback was an automatic ICE.I asked which she liked the best and she said they are both fine but the blue was a nicer colour.
To her she doesn't care how it drives, just has to go A to B.
Yep. Well done on spotting the irony. And the fact that I just now used a single word sentence. And, with a word that probably isn’t in the Oxford English Dictionary. And, starting with a conjunction. It’s just so easy to spot those who are so passionate about things. On another point, people tend to forget that we don’t all want to spend a lot of money on a new car. On finance or otherwise. We are ecological because we don’t consume. Like many on here, we make our cars last a long time through careful use and maintenance. We don’t suffer huge depreciation because we buy when a car is, perhaps, five years old and most of the value has disappeared. I am happy with my 8 year old Fiat 500. I will only change it when it is no longer providing value for money. At that point, I will buy another small car and, [Oxford comma] if my current need for a car that does 200 miles without home charging changes, I might well consider a baby EV. At that time, there should be plenty. And, because they will be white goods, they will be cheaper (probably) than equivalent ICEs are now. But let’s not go there. Hey?
SWoll said:
My wife on the other hand won't even consider a non EV for daily duties now as is of the opinion the difference in the drivetrain is like.night and dsy. And thats coming from driving numerous.large capacity and pretty refined ICE cars with well regarded auto boxes.
Matches my experience almost exactly.
JD said:
SWoll said:
My wife on the other hand won't even consider a non EV for daily duties now as is of the opinion the difference in the drivetrain is like.night and dsy. And thats coming from driving numerous.large capacity and pretty refined ICE cars with well regarded auto boxes.
Matches my experience almost exactly.We're going to Malta in a couple of weeks and she even asked about hiring an EV there, but the standard of driving is so poor in Malta that I've had to insist we hire a cheapo and already scratched/smashed old car
BERNEV said:
People say we don’t always need cars - witness the mention of fifteen minute cities above. All great if you live in one. I live in the Costa del Sol. I don’t use the car at all because I don’t need to day to day. But I do if we need to go anywhere out of the bounds of the immediate Malaga-Marbella strip. Same when I live in the rural West Country. There is no transport and my nearest supermarket is 7 miles away. City dwellers tend to forget that a large percentage of populations remain rural and the utopia of going back to how we were is a feasibility. It isn’t.
A large percentage? A quick google suggests that only about 15% of the population live rurally. The vast majority live in urban areas.it depends totally on the way things have moved on, I very much doubt I will own an EV within the next 20 years.
At the moment the repair and secondhand market are fluctuating too much to warrant it,m and as others say I want to buy a car outright, not on tick, I do sporadic long journeys and that is too much faff, I am not sitting about in the worst of all places a service station charging, sorry not for me.
So far it is the preserve of the masses with drives and middle income, and two cars, not exclusively and I do not see that changing much in the next 20 years for the lower paid and those without the ease of home charging or driveways. And some will never buy one. n principle.
China will take over the car market eventually in my opinion, that will either force existing makes to cheapen up (as at the moment in my mind they are cashing in as are most consumer based sellers of anything post Covid), or they will buy out existing firms.
At the moment the repair and secondhand market are fluctuating too much to warrant it,m and as others say I want to buy a car outright, not on tick, I do sporadic long journeys and that is too much faff, I am not sitting about in the worst of all places a service station charging, sorry not for me.
So far it is the preserve of the masses with drives and middle income, and two cars, not exclusively and I do not see that changing much in the next 20 years for the lower paid and those without the ease of home charging or driveways. And some will never buy one. n principle.
China will take over the car market eventually in my opinion, that will either force existing makes to cheapen up (as at the moment in my mind they are cashing in as are most consumer based sellers of anything post Covid), or they will buy out existing firms.
bergclimber34 said:
it depends totally on the way things have moved on, I very much doubt I will own an EV within the next 20 years.
At the moment the repair and secondhand market are fluctuating too much to warrant it,m and as others say I want to buy a car outright, not on tick, I do sporadic long journeys and that is too much faff, I am not sitting about in the worst of all places a service station charging, sorry not for me.
So far it is the preserve of the masses with drives and middle income, and two cars, not exclusively and I do not see that changing much in the next 20 years for the lower paid and those without the ease of home charging or driveways. And some will never buy one. n principle.
China will take over the car market eventually in my opinion, that will either force existing makes to cheapen up (as at the moment in my mind they are cashing in as are most consumer based sellers of anything post Covid), or they will buy out existing firms.
Well it's your decision if you'd rather spend more time filling up an ICE car in petrol stations than very occasionally charging an EV at a service station when you have lunch. If you like petrol stations more, and want to visit them more often, you should stick with ICE. At the moment the repair and secondhand market are fluctuating too much to warrant it,m and as others say I want to buy a car outright, not on tick, I do sporadic long journeys and that is too much faff, I am not sitting about in the worst of all places a service station charging, sorry not for me.
So far it is the preserve of the masses with drives and middle income, and two cars, not exclusively and I do not see that changing much in the next 20 years for the lower paid and those without the ease of home charging or driveways. And some will never buy one. n principle.
China will take over the car market eventually in my opinion, that will either force existing makes to cheapen up (as at the moment in my mind they are cashing in as are most consumer based sellers of anything post Covid), or they will buy out existing firms.
You're probably right about the Chinese influence.
You've depressed me somewhat by looking forward 20 years into your future and deciding today that nothing much will change regards income or where you live. Life should be an adventure where you dream of more (whatever 'more' means to you), not plan for the same on the assumption you can't do something about it!
Ankh87 said:
The SUV thing (was that MG) was an EV the small hatchback was an automatic ICE.
I asked which she liked the best and she said they are both fine but the blue was a nicer colour.
To her she doesn't care how it drives, just has to go A to B.
Are you positive it wasn't an Ioniq 5N? I asked which she liked the best and she said they are both fine but the blue was a nicer colour.
To her she doesn't care how it drives, just has to go A to B.
That would explain so much tbh.TheDeuce said:
JD said:
SWoll said:
My wife on the other hand won't even consider a non EV for daily duties now as is of the opinion the difference in the drivetrain is like.night and dsy. And thats coming from driving numerous.large capacity and pretty refined ICE cars with well regarded auto boxes.
Matches my experience almost exactly.We're going to Malta in a couple of weeks and she even asked about hiring an EV there, but the standard of driving is so poor in Malta that I've had to insist we hire a cheapo and already scratched/smashed old car
As for Malta, I've been recently. Loads of hybrids but the locals (even most taxi drivers) don't "believe" in EV's. I talked to a couple of them and all of them are convinced a car needs an engine to operate (their words, not mine).
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 13th March 22:16
ZesPak said:
+3
As for Malta, I've been recently. Loads of hybrids but the locals (even most taxi drivers) don't "believe" in EV's. I talked to a couple of them and all of them are convinced a car needs an engine to operate (their words, not mine).
The wonderful thing about that is that Malta is just perfect for EV!! It's such a tiny place, a little city EV could easily get to anywhere and back on a charge As for Malta, I've been recently. Loads of hybrids but the locals (even most taxi drivers) don't "believe" in EV's. I talked to a couple of them and all of them are convinced a car needs an engine to operate (their words, not mine).
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 13th March 22:16
I suspect the truth is that 95% of them have older cars due to the wage level in Malta, they also have the infrastructure to repair cars on the cheap (seriously cheap and somewhat shoddy - I've worked there...) so there's no reason why they should be interested in EV just yet. Give it another decade when most very cheap older cars they can import are electric and they'll transition with no complaints. They're generally to happy to complain about anything that isn't really a problem - as is normal in pretty much all sunshine countries. Perhaps not Syria, there's always an exception.
There's some EVs there, most taxis seemed to be relatively new Toyota Corolla Tourings, hybrids. People there are very "macho" about their cars though.
If you've got a bit of time, there's a quaint little car museum called "the Malta Classic Car Collection" that has some very nice cars. A lot of Alfas if you're into that.
I'm not in this picture btw.
If you've got a bit of time, there's a quaint little car museum called "the Malta Classic Car Collection" that has some very nice cars. A lot of Alfas if you're into that.
I'm not in this picture btw.
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 13th March 23:07
ZesPak said:
There's some EVs there, most taxis seemed to be relatively new Toyota Corolla Tourings, hybrids. People there are very "macho" about their cars though.
If you've got a bit of time, there's a quaint little car museum called "the Malta Classic Car Collection" that has some very nice cars. A lot of Alfas if you're into that.
I'm not in this picture btw.
You say you're not in the picture, but I can't help but think that's because you're the pregnant chap in the black top If you've got a bit of time, there's a quaint little car museum called "the Malta Classic Car Collection" that has some very nice cars. A lot of Alfas if you're into that.
I'm not in this picture btw.
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 13th March 23:07
I'm back in Malta in 12 days time and I think I will check it out, thank you!! I also do appreciate that they love their cars - cars are AMAZING in that way because even when wages are low and property in expensive, everyone can justify buying a car as it's needed to get to work etc, so a car can be a point of passion/a hobby but also justified and guilt free. That's why the dream of a better car or an upgrade on the current car is so important, because it's often the only justifiable and affordable thing to spend money on that you can display to other people, and perhaps cheer them up if it's special/unique. That doesn't apply so much in modern Britain anymore but in places like Malta, you're the big dog if you have a half decent car. Even if you still live with your Mum and her Mum and can't afford to put petrol in it very often
TheDeuce said:
bergclimber34 said:
it depends totally on the way things have moved on, I very much doubt I will own an EV within the next 20 years.
At the moment the repair and secondhand market are fluctuating too much to warrant it,m and as others say I want to buy a car outright, not on tick, I do sporadic long journeys and that is too much faff, I am not sitting about in the worst of all places a service station charging, sorry not for me.
So far it is the preserve of the masses with drives and middle income, and two cars, not exclusively and I do not see that changing much in the next 20 years for the lower paid and those without the ease of home charging or driveways. And some will never buy one. n principle.
China will take over the car market eventually in my opinion, that will either force existing makes to cheapen up (as at the moment in my mind they are cashing in as are most consumer based sellers of anything post Covid), or they will buy out existing firms.
Well it's your decision if you'd rather spend more time filling up an ICE car in petrol stations than very occasionally charging an EV at a service station when you have lunch. If you like petrol stations more, and want to visit them more often, you should stick with ICE. At the moment the repair and secondhand market are fluctuating too much to warrant it,m and as others say I want to buy a car outright, not on tick, I do sporadic long journeys and that is too much faff, I am not sitting about in the worst of all places a service station charging, sorry not for me.
So far it is the preserve of the masses with drives and middle income, and two cars, not exclusively and I do not see that changing much in the next 20 years for the lower paid and those without the ease of home charging or driveways. And some will never buy one. n principle.
China will take over the car market eventually in my opinion, that will either force existing makes to cheapen up (as at the moment in my mind they are cashing in as are most consumer based sellers of anything post Covid), or they will buy out existing firms.
You're probably right about the Chinese influence.
You've depressed me somewhat by looking forward 20 years into your future and deciding today that nothing much will change regards income or where you live. Life should be an adventure where you dream of more (whatever 'more' means to you), not plan for the same on the assumption you can't do something about it!
QBee said:
If you always buy your next car brand new, then these arguments are interesting.
I agree with the person who said that the biggest cost of this method of transport acquisition is depreciation.
Approximately double all the other running costs added together, ignoring interest on the financing.
I have done the maths on a company car I am selling.
I personally run old sheds, nothing newer than 20 years old. All petrol or diesel.
I like the idea of doing the bulk of my miles on battery, as my mileage is mainly within a 25 mile range of my home.
But I don't want to spend thousands of pounds a year on depreciation.
When the day comes, and I can buy for a couple of grand a 15-20 year old PHEV on which the battery has been replaced, I will be first in the queue to buy it.
I thing this follows for alot of people,cars have got ridiculously expensive in the last decade ice and ev, and there doesnt seem to much desire to own a new car, as they are very similar , unless you are going for halo models like an aston or something.I agree with the person who said that the biggest cost of this method of transport acquisition is depreciation.
Approximately double all the other running costs added together, ignoring interest on the financing.
I have done the maths on a company car I am selling.
I personally run old sheds, nothing newer than 20 years old. All petrol or diesel.
I like the idea of doing the bulk of my miles on battery, as my mileage is mainly within a 25 mile range of my home.
But I don't want to spend thousands of pounds a year on depreciation.
When the day comes, and I can buy for a couple of grand a 15-20 year old PHEV on which the battery has been replaced, I will be first in the queue to buy it.
amongst my friends people seem to just be sticking with what they know. Early 2000's cars were in my opinion peek car, comfortable, reliable, and not overly complex, and a pet hate of mine, no ipad stuck on the day to control everything, my car wil be with me until its uneconomically viable to keep going.
New cars in my opinion dont offer anything better, and to replace what ive got with new, would cost 40k, for what wouldnt be a better car.
If i do get something, it will be an older toy to put alongside what ive got, i just hope my car soldiers on for a few more years.
SWoll said:
Ankh87 said:
My point is that when comparing, it's comparing apples and oranges. Yes they have things similar but the majority of people wouldn't notice if they were driving an EV or ICE (automatic). Only time they would is when they need to add fuel or electricity.
Don't agree without at all. Yet to speak to an EV driver who doesn't comment on how much smoother, quieter, more responsive and easy to drive they are than any ICE car they've had previously.- SatNav is fairly crap, no DAB radio, no adaptive cruise, no Carplay or Android auto.
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