How will the end of ICE availability affect buyer attitudes?

[KobayashiMaru86]

I'm still have too much fun driving old cars about and hopefully still will be well beyond 2035. I suspect the Govt will make it so you have to give them up, be it taxation or public shaming to own one. Could look at EV one day for commuting but I'm in no rush to.

[J__Wood]

I think buyers attitudes will be altered by the constant and ever increasing hurdles for ICE owners.
In Bath my resident's parking permit went from £135 for a diesel to £50 for an EV.

ICE pay more in our Council car parks
e.g. an hour will cost you:
0 to 130 g/km £1.70
131 to 150 g/km £1.80
151 to 170 g/km £1.80
171 to 190 g/km £1.90
191 to 225 g/km £1.90
226 to 255 g/km £2
Over 255 g/km £2
Diesel from £2.20 to £2.20.

More (and stricter) CAZs popping up over the next five years, costing £10 or more to enter.

If the Government really want to get PHers jumping into EVs they could just bump the dual carriageway speed limit up to 80 mph for EVs only (obviously it would be more likely to reduce ICE by 10 mph and lump them in with trucks for other limits).

[kambites]

KobayashiMaru86 said:

I'm still have too much fun driving old cars about and hopefully still will be well beyond 2035. I suspect the Govt will make it so you have to give them up, be it taxation or public shaming to own one. Could look at EV one day for commuting but I'm in no rush to.

There's really no historical precedence for this. Once the sale of new ICE vehicles has been banned for a few years, the government will quickly lose interest in them because they'll become an irrelevance.

[Nomme de Plum]

PinkHouse said:

Nomme de Plum said:

PinkHouse said:

Those are infinitely more interesting to discuss than if your nephew's ex girlfriend's half brother spoke to his mate about an EV the other day

It was my GF that insisted we swopped the 911 for a Taycan.

Well I must be lucky because my girlfriend can afford her own sports cars

Super. I prefer to travel with mine not in separate cars.

[TheDeuce]

kambites said:

KobayashiMaru86 said:

I'm still have too much fun driving old cars about and hopefully still will be well beyond 2035. I suspect the Govt will make it so you have to give them up, be it taxation or public shaming to own one. Could look at EV one day for commuting but I'm in no rush to.

There's really no historical precedence for this. Once the sale of new ICE vehicles has been banned for a few years, the government will quickly lose interest in them because they'll become an irrelevance.

Not only that, but old cars are valued as part of the heritage of motoring - which is why the government gives them classic car status and removes certain costs, because they're important and should be preserved.

There's no reason at all to think that the government will tax you out of a special ICE car if you wish to keep one indefinitely. At some point basic economics of scale will effect the pump price of fuel in the future, but that's not government doing and is of little relevance to someone running just 1-2k miles a year in a cherished car.

People need to stop seeing this as a war against ICE, it isn't. Its just support for progress to the next phase of personal transport. Industry has to have that support to make the change.

[MrSmith901]

My company is fully remote, so no company car allowance.

Also means no commute.

My car has a V8 in it, it's a weekend toy. Would I have an EV as a weekend toy? No chance. Never.

Our family car is a petrol rav 4. As it stands we wouldn't replace that with an EV as we do long trips to family etc. The infrastructure is awful and I don't want to be hunting around for a charger and then waiting ages for it to charge. Until that's sorted I will continue with petrol for a to b motoring.

I also refuse to pay monthly for cars. Buy it outright or not at all.

For me the end of ice availability will probably mean I just buy used ICE cars until the above mentioned problems are fixed. And for the hobby car, that will always be petrol.

[TheDeuce]

MrSmith901 said:

My company is fully remote, so no company car allowance.

Also means no commute.

My car has a V8 in it, it's a weekend toy. Would I have an EV as a weekend toy? No chance. Never.

Our family car is a petrol rav 4. As it stands we wouldn't replace that with an EV as we do long trips to family etc. The infrastructure is awful and I don't want to be hunting around for a charger and then waiting ages for it to charge. Until that's sorted I will continue with petrol for a to b motoring.

I also refuse to pay monthly for cars. Buy it outright or not at all.

For me the end of ice availability will probably mean I just buy used ICE cars until the above mentioned problems are fixed. And for the hobby car, that will always be petrol.

That all makes sense, other than the problems don't exist.

You can buy a used EV with great range today and you won't be hunting around for chargers. You won't be able get even halfway through the range of the EV without passing several high speed chargers.

The infrastructure was awful, it's now so simple as to not even think about pre planning a long journey. Just get in and go.

[Zero Fuchs]

TheDeuce said:

That all makes sense, other than the problems don't exist.

You can buy a used EV with great range today and you won't be hunting around for chargers. You won't be able get even halfway through the range of the EV without passing several high speed chargers.

The infrastructure was awful, it's now so simple as to not even think about pre planning a long journey. Just get in and go.

It's funny. I've been seriously thinking about replacing my EV for the first time in 6 years. I love my i3s but have been looking at an EV3 as it looks a cracking car. Ironically the long range version has more range than all three of my ICE, which are limited to 300 miles at best. So any long journey would require a stop for petrol or charge. After 6 years I'd be totally spoilt as the EV3 can plan all the charge stops and preheat the battery in anticipation. Total luxury plus the 120kW odd charge speed would be a revelation compared to 50kW.

Have to agree that the infrastructure is pretty good now. Not in every corner of the UK but I've not been anywhere, even in Wales or the Highlands where I would get stuck.

[DMZ]

PinkHouse said:

Nomme de Plum said:

PinkHouse said:

Most people daydream about things like winning the lottery, travelling to exotic places, achieveing great things etc and this is what you choose to fantasize about?

Is your experience of driving your EV not enjoyable enough for you as things stand that you need external validation and affirmation from other people doing the same thing to satisfy your mind that you've made the right choice? That would explain the ban-loving attitude you see from the usual minority here

You have strange Daydreams so possibly not most people.

For me it's how I mod the suspension to make the car handle better, can I tweak the electronics for a few more kW and also up the regeneration, or how do i get my boat point a bit better. but then I think engineering. I may have a few others but they're certainly not for here.

Those are infinitely more interesting to discuss than if your nephew's ex girlfriend's half brother spoke to his mate about an EV the other day

Lolz, brilliant. Some seriously needy people in this thread for sure.

[SWoll]

DMZ said:

Lolz, brilliant. Some seriously needy people in this thread for sure.

Indeed. Imagine being daft enough to discuss people's attitudes towards EVs in a thread about people's attitudes towards EVs.

What a loser.

[ZesPak]

MrSmith901 said:

My company is fully remote, so no company car allowance.

Also means no commute.

My car has a V8 in it, it's a weekend toy. Would I have an EV as a weekend toy? No chance. Never.

Our family car is a petrol rav 4. As it stands we wouldn't replace that with an EV as we do long trips to family etc. The infrastructure is awful and I don't want to be hunting around for a charger and then waiting ages for it to charge. Until that's sorted I will continue with petrol for a to b motoring.

I also refuse to pay monthly for cars. Buy it outright or not at all.

For me the end of ice availability will probably mean I just buy used ICE cars until the above mentioned problems are fixed. And for the hobby car, that will always be petrol.

Sensible, except your fears are unfounded IME, even at this moment.
By all means, keep running whatever you want. But if you want to do it while acting sensibly, try it out for yourself or ask people who do rather than rehashing Daily Sun talking points.

[TheDeuce]

ZesPak said:

MrSmith901 said:

My company is fully remote, so no company car allowance.

Also means no commute.

My car has a V8 in it, it's a weekend toy. Would I have an EV as a weekend toy? No chance. Never.

Our family car is a petrol rav 4. As it stands we wouldn't replace that with an EV as we do long trips to family etc. The infrastructure is awful and I don't want to be hunting around for a charger and then waiting ages for it to charge. Until that's sorted I will continue with petrol for a to b motoring.

I also refuse to pay monthly for cars. Buy it outright or not at all.

For me the end of ice availability will probably mean I just buy used ICE cars until the above mentioned problems are fixed. And for the hobby car, that will always be petrol.

Sensible, except your fears are unfounded IME, even at this moment.
By all means, keep running whatever you want. But if you want to do it while acting sensibly, try it out for yourself or ask people who do rather than rehashing Daily Sun talking points.

It is funny how many people seem to have fully formed their opinion on EV (and all sorts of other things in life), based on how they're portrayed in the media. They obviously can't work out that the media are interested in selling them drama, not making them wise...

The other day I returned to my car at the supermarket and the guy in the car parked next to me started asking me what it was like - which was initially quite nice as it used to happen all the time when I first started driving an EV, but very rarely now, I assume because most people have at least one EV driving friend at this point who they can ask.

Anyway... this guy asked all the typical questions about what the range is like, how long to charge etc, but he seemed determined to argue with me each time I answered him I swear in the end he was getting quite irritated as I was explaining we were taking the car down to Cornwall later this year, I think he thought I was taking the piss in some complex and ironic way!! It was as if he knew with unwavering certainty that such a thing was simply not viable and considered it extremely rude of me to treat him like an idiot by claiming otherwise

Well he can piss right off. We are taking the car to Cornwall in October for my wife's 40th, we will be spending a week there, we will be driving around all over the place and we won't be pre-planning where to charge or spending hours of our lives waiting for the car to charge. What we will do is set off as we would in any other car, and at some point after 2-3 hours driving at normal speeds it will become lunchtime, so we will stop for lunch - probably 15-20 minutes of charge, then we'll get back in the car and then we will arrive at our rental house a couple of hours later. It's just not that complicated!

[ZesPak]

People see it as some sort of "gotcha" when I tell them my 100kWh car would take almost 7h to fully charge when parked at home.
Anyway, I'm fine with people preferring an ICE, it's the false premises or pretenses (eg "we do regular longer trips so it won't work for us") that I take offense at.

[TheDeuce]

ZesPak said:

People see it as some sort of "gotcha" when I tell them my 100kWh car would take almost 7h to fully charge when parked at home.
Anyway, I'm fine with people preferring an ICE, it's the false premises or pretenses (eg "we do regular longer trips so it won't work for us") that I take offense at.

I know, but some people are just a bit simplistic - critical thinking has become quite unfashionable, far easier to just adopt the opinion drip fed to you by the media. It doesn't matter if it's true.

But as per the title of this thread, once ICE eventually starts to become far less common and not available as a new car, at some point the number of people that are happily driving EV's will become a more pervasive source of information than the media for the dumb dumbs to base their opinions on. It's all very well deciding EV's can't do long trips 'because the newspapers all say it', but when they have half a dozen friends that are frequently making long trips without any problems, that opinion will change.

It still won't be an opinion they arrived at independently, they still won't be capable of critical thought, but at least they will no longer be wrong

[Ankh87]

J__Wood said:

If the Government really want to get PHers jumping into EVs they could just bump the dual carriageway speed limit up to 80 mph for EVs only (obviously it would be more likely to reduce ICE by 10 mph and lump them in with trucks for other limits).

How would they police this though? Some vehicles it is hard to tell what is an EV and what isn't. So unless the police are going to somehow search the reg while sat on the side of the road or all vehicles get photographed "speeding", then checked. It would be near impossible to do this and it's not practical, let alone going to be dangerous for all road users.

If the Government wants to push harder, then maybe everyone should be entitled to a home charger for a cheap price, rather than the select few. I were quoted £900-£1200, yet someone on benefits or other incentive based gets it cheaper. That's what the bloke told me on the phone. I'm punished for working and doing the job that I do.

[ZesPak]

Ankh87 said:

How would they police this though? Some vehicles it is hard to tell what is an EV and what isn't. So unless the police are going to somehow search the reg while sat on the side of the road or all vehicles get photographed "speeding", then checked. It would be near impossible to do this and it's not practical, let alone going to be dangerous for all road users.

Is speed still manually enforced in the UK?

That's... quaint.

[TheDeuce]

ZesPak said:

Ankh87 said:

How would they police this though? Some vehicles it is hard to tell what is an EV and what isn't. So unless the police are going to somehow search the reg while sat on the side of the road or all vehicles get photographed "speeding", then checked. It would be near impossible to do this and it's not practical, let alone going to be dangerous for all road users.

Is speed still manually enforced in the UK?

That's... quaint.

Yea, the police would have zero problems identifying the non EV's breaking the speed limit. They already do the exact same thing (as do static speed cameras) via the ANPR system to detect commercial vehicles breaking the specific speed limits that apply to that class of vehicle.

If you drive past a police car these days, speeding or not, it's most likely read and checked you reg plate for insurance etc. It's all automated, plod just sits there waiting for the system to tell them who their next customer is, like an Uber driver

[otolith]

This is a country where the inclusion of registration year on the number plate drives a significant proportion of the population to change cars when they don't need to.

The tipping point will happen when British snobbery decides that ICE = lower class person.

[Ankh87]

Granted it isn't manual as such any more but in some cases it is. Personally adjusting speeds for the type of motor you have just isn't practical nor is it really safe having more vehicles driving all at different speeds.

As I said the best way is to actually make it cheaper and incentivize everyone, not just the select few. Make public charging cheaper, make personal chargers cheaper, make cars cheaper. Also make them simple to use rather than a load of apps and/or subscriptions when using a public charger. They should be as easy as pay at pump is, so put your card into the machine and add electricity. Bank is then debited accordingly, no need to you to put in all the info for an app.

[TheDeuce]

otolith said:

This is a country where the inclusion of registration year on the number plate drives a significant proportion of the population to change cars when they don't need to.

The tipping point will happen when British snobbery decides that ICE = lower class person.

I've honestly never met anyone who has changed their car because the reg number makes it obvious it's few years old. I've met loads of people that want a new car every few years for the sake of always having a new car, in warranty... But they would do that even if the number plate didn't reveal the cars age.

I actually think it's a thing that works the other way around, it's more likely that someone saving £££ by buying a cheaper used car will then put a p-plate on it to disguise it's age!

But whatever the mechanics of the numberplate factor, I think you're probably right. Once a certain % of the cars on the road are electric, many of those looking to buy a new/nearly new car will start to feel they might look a bit old hat (or plain poor ) if they get anything other than an electric car themselves. I don't wish to be sexist but I think women are more likely to feel urge to follow the apparent trend than men actually, based solely on my female friends desire to have certain types of car in the past as trends have shifted. I suspect it's down to them not actually caring enough to deep dive into what sort of car is 'best', so quicker and simpler to just follow the same path as they see others seem to be doing.

They ALL drive an SUV now, regardless of having kids or not - that's a trend they all got swept up by years ago!!