Kia EV6, Ioniq 5, Ford Mustang Mach-E, or Tesla Model Y?
Discussion
Zcd1 said:
Evidence?LG have screwed up and paying big money to help resolve this, same as the GM bolt and taycans. Maybe we should read as equally irrelevant Porsche 911 main seal issues.
It’s a better car than the comedy boot Hyundai Kia multimedia mess with poor rolling refinement.
JonnyVTEC said:
Evidence?...
Evidence indeed that taking a chance on an i-Pace would be foolish at best.Why would anyone consider a car whose manufacturer's future looks shaky at best? And how much support do you expect the i-Pace to get if Jaguar indeed re-invents itself successfully?
Trolling is one thing, but suggesting that anyone play Russian Roulette with a car that was never anything but an also-ran in the market is irresponsible.
But hey, it's not your money, so why should you care, right?
Zcd1 said:
JonnyVTEC said:
Evidence?...
Evidence indeed that taking a chance on an i-Pace would be foolish at best.Why would anyone consider a car whose manufacturer's future looks shaky at best? And how much support do you expect the i-Pace to get if Jaguar indeed re-invents itself successfully?
Trolling is one thing, but suggesting that anyone play Russian Roulette with a car that was never anything but an also-ran in the market is irresponsible.
But hey, it's not your money, so why should you care, right?
Because it's a luxury performance SUV that ticks a lot of boxes, costs about £8 to do 200 miles and mist of them are pretty much faultless.
And, they're now less than half price.
What's your experience of the car? Have you owned one?
TheDeuce said:
Wjhy should anyone consider it...?
Because it's a luxury performance SUV that ticks a lot of boxes, costs about £8 to do 200 miles and mist of them are pretty much faultless.
And, they're now less than half price.
What's your experience of the car? Have you owned one?
Test drove one back in about 2019, ironically.Because it's a luxury performance SUV that ticks a lot of boxes, costs about £8 to do 200 miles and mist of them are pretty much faultless.
And, they're now less than half price.
What's your experience of the car? Have you owned one?
Look, I understand that Jaguar is a British marque, and that fact automatically buys it some slack on PH, but removing the rose-colored glasses, the i-Pace was never really anything special. Its strengths were outnumbered by its weaknesses, as its lack of market success (outside the UK) clearly demonstrated. That said, IMHO there wasn't anything so wrong with it that a good refresh shouldn't have been able to address, but Jaguar never had the money or consistency of leadership to make that happen.
There's a reason they're "cheap as chips" now, and it's not that they were shining beacons of EV amazingness...
Zcd1 said:
TheDeuce said:
Wjhy should anyone consider it...?
Because it's a luxury performance SUV that ticks a lot of boxes, costs about £8 to do 200 miles and mist of them are pretty much faultless.
And, they're now less than half price.
What's your experience of the car? Have you owned one?
Test drove one back in about 2019, ironically.Because it's a luxury performance SUV that ticks a lot of boxes, costs about £8 to do 200 miles and mist of them are pretty much faultless.
And, they're now less than half price.
What's your experience of the car? Have you owned one?
Look, I understand that Jaguar is a British marque, and that fact automatically buys it some slack on PH, but removing the rose-colored glasses, the i-Pace was never really anything special. Its strengths were outnumbered by its weaknesses, as its lack of market success (outside the UK) clearly demonstrated. That said, IMHO there wasn't anything so wrong with it that a good refresh shouldn't have been able to address, but Jaguar never had the money or consistency of leadership to make that happen.
There's a reason they're "cheap as chips" now, and it's not that they were shining beacons of EV amazingness...
ks to being an EV, judged by all the tired EV tropes such as range and charging speed - neither of which actually impact most drivers often of ever...It also has sod all to do with being British. It is a special car on merit, it's excellent save for the reliability issues of some cars. This isn't about Jaguar or EV, it's about the car - and the car is very good. As yet, nobody else has produced an electric SUV I'd rather be sat in/drive in.
TheDeuce said:
bks to being an EV, judged by all the tired EV tropes such as range and charging speed - neither of which actually impact most drivers often of ever...
It also has sod all to do with being British. It is a special car on merit, it's excellent save for the reliability issues of some cars. This isn't about Jaguar or EV, it's about the car - and the car is very good. As yet, nobody else has produced an electric SUV I'd rather be sat in/drive in.
Yes, I recall that you like it.ks to being an EV, judged by all the tired EV tropes such as range and charging speed - neither of which actually impact most drivers often of ever...It also has sod all to do with being British. It is a special car on merit, it's excellent save for the reliability issues of some cars. This isn't about Jaguar or EV, it's about the car - and the car is very good. As yet, nobody else has produced an electric SUV I'd rather be sat in/drive in.
I didn't like it nearly enough to consider buying it.
Too bad that there weren't enough buyers who shared your view to make the i-Pace a success in the wider market.
If i-Pace v2.0 had ever actually materialized, I might have considered it, as I said shortly after my early 2020 test-drive:
Zcd1 said:
Had a few minutes of free time this afternoon so I dropped by my local Jag-you-arrrrr dealer to look at an i-Pace.
First thing I notice: They still have a new, untitled 2019 "First Edition" on the showroom floor - whoops.
List price $94,000+. Wow.
Interior is quite nice overall, in a Jaguar way. Nice materials, coherent design. Audio system (Meridian Surround) sounds really good. Comfortable seats, decent space. What isn't nice, IMO, is the design/functionality of the infotainment system and screens. This has been mentioned ad nauseum, but that's because it's true - it's poorly designed and laid out, slow to respond and unintuitive. The polar opposite of my Tesla's infotainment. Almost a deal-breaker, for me. The fact that a $94K car has MANUAL steering column adjusters is also surprising, and in a bad way.
Luggage space behind the rear seats is decent, though not obviously larger than my Model 3's. Yes, if you stack stuff to the ceiling or carry really bulky stuff then it has an advantage, but under the cargo cover, notsomuch. Certainly is finished better than the Tesla's trunk though.
On to the driving. I expected it to be much quieter and more refined than my car. It's actually only slightly quieter and more refined, and only in some aspects. It's clearly not nearly as fast, but the throttle response also isn't as finely judged, and it feels tall and heavy by comparison. The ride is softer, but the body control, even in "DYNAMIC", isn't as good.
The real kicker was when I tried to plug in a 400-mile road-trip destination into the NAV. It didn't really seem to know where I'd need to stop or for how long - or at least the guy couldn't figure out how to display that info. Huge disadvantage compared to Tesla, which tells you within seconds exactly where you'll be stopping, for how long, and the total trip duration. When I plugged that destination into abetterouteplanner (which the sales guy had never heard of), we discovered that the trip would take 2 hours and 13 minutes longer in the i-Pace than in my Tesla. 8:59 vs 6:46!
The difference is all down to the charging speed, with 2 stops and 33 minutes total charging time required for the Tesla vs. 3 stops and 2 hours 49 minutes total charging time for the i-Pace. That's a huge difference, and is a deal-breaker for my use case.
Still a very nice car and an excellent first EV for Jaguar. Hats off to them for getting it to market ahead of zee Germans. With more power, faster charging, better infotainment and a $10K lower price, I might have been tempted.
As it currently stands, I'll wait to see what Jaguar EV version 2.0 brings to the table.
First thing I notice: They still have a new, untitled 2019 "First Edition" on the showroom floor - whoops.
List price $94,000+. Wow.
Interior is quite nice overall, in a Jaguar way. Nice materials, coherent design. Audio system (Meridian Surround) sounds really good. Comfortable seats, decent space. What isn't nice, IMO, is the design/functionality of the infotainment system and screens. This has been mentioned ad nauseum, but that's because it's true - it's poorly designed and laid out, slow to respond and unintuitive. The polar opposite of my Tesla's infotainment. Almost a deal-breaker, for me. The fact that a $94K car has MANUAL steering column adjusters is also surprising, and in a bad way.
Luggage space behind the rear seats is decent, though not obviously larger than my Model 3's. Yes, if you stack stuff to the ceiling or carry really bulky stuff then it has an advantage, but under the cargo cover, notsomuch. Certainly is finished better than the Tesla's trunk though.
On to the driving. I expected it to be much quieter and more refined than my car. It's actually only slightly quieter and more refined, and only in some aspects. It's clearly not nearly as fast, but the throttle response also isn't as finely judged, and it feels tall and heavy by comparison. The ride is softer, but the body control, even in "DYNAMIC", isn't as good.
The real kicker was when I tried to plug in a 400-mile road-trip destination into the NAV. It didn't really seem to know where I'd need to stop or for how long - or at least the guy couldn't figure out how to display that info. Huge disadvantage compared to Tesla, which tells you within seconds exactly where you'll be stopping, for how long, and the total trip duration. When I plugged that destination into abetterouteplanner (which the sales guy had never heard of), we discovered that the trip would take 2 hours and 13 minutes longer in the i-Pace than in my Tesla. 8:59 vs 6:46!
The difference is all down to the charging speed, with 2 stops and 33 minutes total charging time required for the Tesla vs. 3 stops and 2 hours 49 minutes total charging time for the i-Pace. That's a huge difference, and is a deal-breaker for my use case.
Still a very nice car and an excellent first EV for Jaguar. Hats off to them for getting it to market ahead of zee Germans. With more power, faster charging, better infotainment and a $10K lower price, I might have been tempted.
As it currently stands, I'll wait to see what Jaguar EV version 2.0 brings to the table.
Zcd1 said:
TheDeuce said:
bks to being an EV, judged by all the tired EV tropes such as range and charging speed - neither of which actually impact most drivers often of ever...
It also has sod all to do with being British. It is a special car on merit, it's excellent save for the reliability issues of some cars. This isn't about Jaguar or EV, it's about the car - and the car is very good. As yet, nobody else has produced an electric SUV I'd rather be sat in/drive in.
Yes, I recall that you like it.ks to being an EV, judged by all the tired EV tropes such as range and charging speed - neither of which actually impact most drivers often of ever...It also has sod all to do with being British. It is a special car on merit, it's excellent save for the reliability issues of some cars. This isn't about Jaguar or EV, it's about the car - and the car is very good. As yet, nobody else has produced an electric SUV I'd rather be sat in/drive in.
I didn't like it nearly enough to consider buying it.
Too bad that there weren't enough buyers who shared your view to make the i-Pace a success in the wider market.
If i-Pace v2.0 had ever actually materialized, I might have considered it, as I said shortly after my early 2020 test-drive:
Zcd1 said:
Had a few minutes of free time this afternoon so I dropped by my local Jag-you-arrrrr dealer to look at an i-Pace.
First thing I notice: They still have a new, untitled 2019 "First Edition" on the showroom floor - whoops.
List price $94,000+. Wow.
Interior is quite nice overall, in a Jaguar way. Nice materials, coherent design. Audio system (Meridian Surround) sounds really good. Comfortable seats, decent space. What isn't nice, IMO, is the design/functionality of the infotainment system and screens. This has been mentioned ad nauseum, but that's because it's true - it's poorly designed and laid out, slow to respond and unintuitive. The polar opposite of my Tesla's infotainment. Almost a deal-breaker, for me. The fact that a $94K car has MANUAL steering column adjusters is also surprising, and in a bad way.
Luggage space behind the rear seats is decent, though not obviously larger than my Model 3's. Yes, if you stack stuff to the ceiling or carry really bulky stuff then it has an advantage, but under the cargo cover, notsomuch. Certainly is finished better than the Tesla's trunk though.
On to the driving. I expected it to be much quieter and more refined than my car. It's actually only slightly quieter and more refined, and only in some aspects. It's clearly not nearly as fast, but the throttle response also isn't as finely judged, and it feels tall and heavy by comparison. The ride is softer, but the body control, even in "DYNAMIC", isn't as good.
The real kicker was when I tried to plug in a 400-mile road-trip destination into the NAV. It didn't really seem to know where I'd need to stop or for how long - or at least the guy couldn't figure out how to display that info. Huge disadvantage compared to Tesla, which tells you within seconds exactly where you'll be stopping, for how long, and the total trip duration. When I plugged that destination into abetterouteplanner (which the sales guy had never heard of), we discovered that the trip would take 2 hours and 13 minutes longer in the i-Pace than in my Tesla. 8:59 vs 6:46!
The difference is all down to the charging speed, with 2 stops and 33 minutes total charging time required for the Tesla vs. 3 stops and 2 hours 49 minutes total charging time for the i-Pace. That's a huge difference, and is a deal-breaker for my use case.
Still a very nice car and an excellent first EV for Jaguar. Hats off to them for getting it to market ahead of zee Germans. With more power, faster charging, better infotainment and a $10K lower price, I might have been tempted.
As it currently stands, I'll wait to see what Jaguar EV version 2.0 brings to the table.
First thing I notice: They still have a new, untitled 2019 "First Edition" on the showroom floor - whoops.
List price $94,000+. Wow.
Interior is quite nice overall, in a Jaguar way. Nice materials, coherent design. Audio system (Meridian Surround) sounds really good. Comfortable seats, decent space. What isn't nice, IMO, is the design/functionality of the infotainment system and screens. This has been mentioned ad nauseum, but that's because it's true - it's poorly designed and laid out, slow to respond and unintuitive. The polar opposite of my Tesla's infotainment. Almost a deal-breaker, for me. The fact that a $94K car has MANUAL steering column adjusters is also surprising, and in a bad way.
Luggage space behind the rear seats is decent, though not obviously larger than my Model 3's. Yes, if you stack stuff to the ceiling or carry really bulky stuff then it has an advantage, but under the cargo cover, notsomuch. Certainly is finished better than the Tesla's trunk though.
On to the driving. I expected it to be much quieter and more refined than my car. It's actually only slightly quieter and more refined, and only in some aspects. It's clearly not nearly as fast, but the throttle response also isn't as finely judged, and it feels tall and heavy by comparison. The ride is softer, but the body control, even in "DYNAMIC", isn't as good.
The real kicker was when I tried to plug in a 400-mile road-trip destination into the NAV. It didn't really seem to know where I'd need to stop or for how long - or at least the guy couldn't figure out how to display that info. Huge disadvantage compared to Tesla, which tells you within seconds exactly where you'll be stopping, for how long, and the total trip duration. When I plugged that destination into abetterouteplanner (which the sales guy had never heard of), we discovered that the trip would take 2 hours and 13 minutes longer in the i-Pace than in my Tesla. 8:59 vs 6:46!
The difference is all down to the charging speed, with 2 stops and 33 minutes total charging time required for the Tesla vs. 3 stops and 2 hours 49 minutes total charging time for the i-Pace. That's a huge difference, and is a deal-breaker for my use case.
Still a very nice car and an excellent first EV for Jaguar. Hats off to them for getting it to market ahead of zee Germans. With more power, faster charging, better infotainment and a $10K lower price, I might have been tempted.
As it currently stands, I'll wait to see what Jaguar EV version 2.0 brings to the table.
Your 2020 post isn't relevant as the cars are now half that price, which entirely alters the value proposition.
What luxury electric SUV do you think is actually better...?
TheDeuce said:
There were buyers, but Jag had a rotten deal and didn't make enough per unit. It was a great car but not sufficient to get Jag out of a hole. The fact Jag was obviously in a hole and were struggling to repair any car further reduced buyer numbers.
Your 2020 post isn't relevant as the cars are now half that price, which entirely alters the value proposition.
What luxury electric SUV do you think is actually better...?
LOL - so in other words, it was an also-ran in the overall scheme of things...like I said.Your 2020 post isn't relevant as the cars are now half that price, which entirely alters the value proposition.
What luxury electric SUV do you think is actually better...?
My 2020 post is absolutely relevant, as nothing really changed in the i-Pace even when the light refresh happened. Oh, sure, the infotainment went from abysmal to almost acceptable, but that's about it.
If the i-Pace's clear weaknesses, major battery issues and Jaguar's uncertain future aren't deterrent enough, then we simply have different priorities in car purchases and that's fine.
The iX (looks aside) is a far better car overall, as are the GV60 and E-GV70, IMHO.
Zcd1 said:
TheDeuce said:
There were buyers, but Jag had a rotten deal and didn't make enough per unit. It was a great car but not sufficient to get Jag out of a hole. The fact Jag was obviously in a hole and were struggling to repair any car further reduced buyer numbers.
Your 2020 post isn't relevant as the cars are now half that price, which entirely alters the value proposition.
What luxury electric SUV do you think is actually better...?
LOL - so in other words, it was an also-ran in the overall scheme of things...like I said.Your 2020 post isn't relevant as the cars are now half that price, which entirely alters the value proposition.
What luxury electric SUV do you think is actually better...?
My 2020 post is absolutely relevant, as nothing really changed in the i-Pace even when the light refresh happened. Oh, sure, the infotainment went from abysmal to almost acceptable, but that's about it.
If the i-Pace's clear weaknesses, major battery issues and Jaguar's uncertain future aren't deterrent enough, then we simply have different priorities in car purchases and that's fine.
The iX (looks aside) is a far better car overall, as are the GV60 and E-GV70, IMHO.
We're discussing this car today as a half price proposition. That price cut is in response to the problems you list so the car has to now be considered at the new price, and with many years of shared knowledge to help prevent buying the cars with known issues.
Against this new value proposition, which alternative car would you say is overall better in terms of luxury + performance?
Zcd1 said:
Evidence indeed that taking a chance on an i-Pace would be foolish at best.
Why would anyone consider a car whose manufacturer's future looks shaky at best? And how much support do you expect the i-Pace to get if Jaguar indeed re-invents itself successfully?
Trolling is one thing, but suggesting that anyone play Russian Roulette with a car that was never anything but an also-ran in the market is irresponsible.
But hey, it's not your money, so why should you care, right?
It’s not your money either… The Land Rover side will happily look after Jaguar. Calling me a troll based on an opinion on some subjective attributes is weak. The attributes are what I called out as a better car. Why would anyone consider a car whose manufacturer's future looks shaky at best? And how much support do you expect the i-Pace to get if Jaguar indeed re-invents itself successfully?
Trolling is one thing, but suggesting that anyone play Russian Roulette with a car that was never anything but an also-ran in the market is irresponsible.
But hey, it's not your money, so why should you care, right?
Mach e for example… enjoy visiting your tyre shop.
TheDeuce said:
There were buyers, but Jag had a rotten deal and didn't make enough per unit. It was a great car but not sufficient to get Jag out of a hole. The fact Jag was obviously in a hole and were struggling to repair any car further reduced buyer numbers.
Your 2020 post isn't relevant as the cars are now half that price, which entirely alters the value proposition.
What luxury electric SUV do you think is actually better...?
This is all well and good but you no longer have skin in the game. I’ve probably read the reason previously but if I did it’s long forgotten - why did you bail and then not get into a potentially trouble free late(r) model? Your 2020 post isn't relevant as the cars are now half that price, which entirely alters the value proposition.
What luxury electric SUV do you think is actually better...?
Did you consider it not worth the monthlies at the time or not trust it at that given time, unlike now?
I appreciate your comments re how the iPace drives, I’ve heard it off other people in person too. However, tech does count these days and a lot of people nowadays don’t like the notion of old school let alone buying/leasing/using it daily. The iPace, unfortunately, is definitely old school regarding tech.
Would I have one, no, but I doff my cap to those who get one now.
I’m seeing a fair few of them around atm, the EV6 is a much rarer beast around here
How is OP getting with their acquisition?
We test drive of a 73kWh Ioniq 5 Ultimate, which got a positive response (and HUD is now a necessity apparently) so just looking for the right colour now
The only thing I can't find out from a test drive is how good the phone app is? (blue link?)
Can anyone offer any comment if it's robust, reliable and not a complete faff to use?
Assume you can see charging status + charge limit and do pre heating/cooling ?
We test drive of a 73kWh Ioniq 5 Ultimate, which got a positive response (and HUD is now a necessity apparently) so just looking for the right colour now
The only thing I can't find out from a test drive is how good the phone app is? (blue link?)
Can anyone offer any comment if it's robust, reliable and not a complete faff to use?
Assume you can see charging status + charge limit and do pre heating/cooling ?
JD said:
How is OP getting with their acquisition?
We test drive of a 73kWh Ioniq 5 Ultimate, which got a positive response (and HUD is now a necessity apparently) so just looking for the right colour now
The only thing I can't find out from a test drive is how good the phone app is? (blue link?)
Can anyone offer any comment if it's robust, reliable and not a complete faff to use?
Assume you can see charging status + charge limit and do pre heating/cooling ?
I dont know about the Hyundai app but the underpinnings of the car are the same as my Kia so possibly some overlap. The Kia app is easy to use and can do charge status + limit, unlock and lock the car, close the charge port, turn on the climate control etc. The problem with it is the back end APIs supporting it are flaky and have a tendency to go down for large periods of time (hours, sometimes days).We test drive of a 73kWh Ioniq 5 Ultimate, which got a positive response (and HUD is now a necessity apparently) so just looking for the right colour now
The only thing I can't find out from a test drive is how good the phone app is? (blue link?)
Can anyone offer any comment if it's robust, reliable and not a complete faff to use?
Assume you can see charging status + charge limit and do pre heating/cooling ?
Its currently down at the min and I cant get a cheap charge going at home
JD said:
How is OP getting with their acquisition?
We test drive of a 73kWh Ioniq 5 Ultimate, which got a positive response (and HUD is now a necessity apparently) so just looking for the right colour now
The only thing I can't find out from a test drive is how good the phone app is? (blue link?)
Can anyone offer any comment if it's robust, reliable and not a complete faff to use?
Assume you can see charging status + charge limit and do pre heating/cooling ?
I've been very pleased with ours. I've loved the HUD as well, certainly something that would have to be on the next car. We test drive of a 73kWh Ioniq 5 Ultimate, which got a positive response (and HUD is now a necessity apparently) so just looking for the right colour now
The only thing I can't find out from a test drive is how good the phone app is? (blue link?)
Can anyone offer any comment if it's robust, reliable and not a complete faff to use?
Assume you can see charging status + charge limit and do pre heating/cooling ?
Phone app wise, I find it great, and not had an issue since I've had the car, certainly more reliable than JLRs efforts where it failed to communicate with the car quite a few times.
Charge status/charge speed, and setting charge limits,
Also being able to turn the heating on, and heated steering wheel at a press of a button has been lovely in the cold spell,
jamesbilluk said:
I've been very pleased with ours. I've loved the HUD as well, certainly something that would have to be on the next car.
Phone app wise, I find it great, and not had an issue since I've had the car, certainly more reliable than JLRs efforts where it failed to communicate with the car quite a few times.
Charge status/charge speed, and setting charge limits,
Also being able to turn the heating on, and heated steering wheel at a press of a button has been lovely in the cold spell
Excellent! thanks very much, music to my ears.Phone app wise, I find it great, and not had an issue since I've had the car, certainly more reliable than JLRs efforts where it failed to communicate with the car quite a few times.
Charge status/charge speed, and setting charge limits,
Also being able to turn the heating on, and heated steering wheel at a press of a button has been lovely in the cold spell
We are so used to these features on the Tesla that they would be hard to go without for the other car.
Scabutz said:
Interesting, that app is identical there or thereabouts as the Kia one. Mine still wont communicate with the car. Over Christmas it was down for 3 days
This however is not so encouraging... Do the cars connect to wi-fi at home? JD said:
This however is not so encouraging... Do the cars connect to wi-fi at home?
No. They have a sim card in the car. The car seems to be connected still, but the app can't communicate with it (because the APIs between them are down).It's only happened 2/3 times in the 8 months I've had it but it's annoying as it lasts for a couple of days. I'm charging it now but won't get the credit back for cheap rates.
Lots of stuff that was “special” about Tesla is now completely normal across many manufacturers, my Smart #1 does everything I need with OTA updates etc. it also has handy features like an indicator stalk and perfectly functional rain sensing wipers.
There are so many choices out there now it is a much more interesting landscape.
There are so many choices out there now it is a much more interesting landscape.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff