Hydrogen power

Hydrogen power

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Discussion

lowdrag

Original Poster:

10,904 posts

173 months

Sunday 20th September
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Very interesting watching Eurosport (how can you contact them by the way?) and the discussion that we may have five hydrogen-powered cars in a few years time. They were talking about the 3,0000 cars in California that are hydrogen-powered, and that Pierre Fillon famously put a plastic cup under the exhaust and then drank the water. They don't seem to know though that there is a hydrogen filling station at the aerodrome, and that in four years from now all Le Mans buses will be hydrogen powered. But I am pleased to see this move forward. I have always seen the electric car as a blind alley, with people gaily ignoring the battery life and global-warming cost and more importantly the cost of their disposal in the future. Will we see a new problem of fly-tipping dangerous batteries? Possibly so. Whatever, bring on the hydrogen!

Flamma

24 posts

36 months

Sunday 20th September
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Recycling batteries, or more specifically the scarce materials they contain, is a huge area of research at the moment. I'm told (by people who actually know) that all fuel-cell concepts - like the H24- are "hybrids" with batteries .. fuel-cells themselves contain vast amounts of precious metals... It is the best solution but not without its own issues...

chrisring

151 posts

105 months

Sunday 20th September
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I need to do some research, but are they able to produce hydrogen cleanly?

Flamma

24 posts

36 months

Sunday 20th September
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The ideal is to use solar to split water.. totally clean. The main alternative is reforming natural gas or other hydrocarbons - then you need a catalyst not unlike a catalytic converter to remove CO. I do not know what Total/H24's source is, may have seen something about solar but that may have been an aspiration..

LunarOne

1,504 posts

97 months

Sunday 20th September
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You can do it the dirty way with chemical reactions, or you can do it cleanly with electrolysis. However the clean method requires vast amounts of electricity, which makes it dirty unless you do it with renewable energy. But I'm still a proponent of hydrogen power, even if we end up using it the least efficient way possible which is by burning it in an internal combustion engine like we do with petrol. That's the only method of powering cars which doesn't require huge amounts of precious metals, but then those cars aren't EVs.

LawrieC

256 posts

64 months

Thursday 1st October
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The current breed of electric cars are just a large scale experiment. I agree, its a blind alley, primarily because of the chemicals in the batteries - thank god they've stopped using Cadmium. You can still use electricity, which can be renewable, but if there's no sun or wind you have a major problem, unless you can store the power, and converting it to hydrogen, which you then store, seems to be the obvious answer, even though pressurised tanks aren't good and it leaks given half a chance and has been considered lethal since the Hindenburg. And burning hydrogen can create nitrogen oxides

//j17

3,578 posts

183 months

Friday 2nd October
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LawrieC said:
And burning hydrogen can create nitrogen oxides
Which is why you don't burn it but combine it with atmospheric oxygen in a fuel cell, producing just water and electricity that you feed to electric motors to drive the vehicle, which is the technology used in the Green GT H2.

FredericRobinson

2,239 posts

192 months

Friday 2nd October
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What's the main thing holding hydrogen power back? Is the infrastructure particularly challenging, more than just installing tanks at petrol stations? The ratio of energy required to extract the hydrogen vs the power it gives?

//j17

3,578 posts

183 months

Friday 2nd October
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Refueling infrastructure is one issue, but the only difference to battery/electric there is people are pumping money in to installing charging points.

There are also safety concerns, some real (ignite a tank of hydorgen in a crash and, well you're going to know about it, meaning a thick, heavey tank) and some perception (hydrogen == Hindenburg == dangerous).

Fuel cell technology has also been "Just a couple of years away from production cars" for good 10 years...and from what I can see still is. But then it's a brand new thing, not just a 100 year old milk float with some mobile phone batteries in it.

Long term though it's the only logical answer, as it addresses the range issue battery/electric will always face and is less damaging to the environment than pure battery/electric (fuel cell cars usually have batteries too, just nowhere near as many).

Edited by //j17 on Friday 2nd October 17:18

LawrieC

256 posts

64 months

Friday 2nd October
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FredericRobinson said:
What's the main thing holding hydrogen power back? Is the infrastructure particularly challenging.....
No it was the regulations, which include things like clear blast zones. We all know that being lighter than air, hydrogen goes up, taking the flames with it, which is why there were survivors on the Hindenburg.

We need more scientists in the government, like errrrrrrm Mrs Thatcher

lowdrag

Original Poster:

10,904 posts

173 months

Saturday 3rd October
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[quote=//j17

Fuel cell technology has also been "Just a couple of years away from production cars" for good 10 years...and from what I can see still is. But then it's a brand new thing, not just a 100 year old milk float with some mobile phone batteries in it.

Edited by //j17 on Friday 2nd October 17:18

[/quote]

Oi! I was to be seen, cap at a jaunty angle, driving my milk float in the nether regions of Leicester in 1977. 26mph downhill on the Narborough Road before peeling off to Aylestone and dropping to 12 mph. The technology was already there wink

FARP

109 posts

118 months

Saturday 3rd October
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Happy days Lowdrag, was that from the Coop Diary on Gimson Road or Kirby & West on Western Road, I suppose you use to stop at Marios Chippy in Braunstone Gate after a Friday Night out.

lowdrag

Original Poster:

10,904 posts

173 months

Saturday 3rd October
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Co-op. I had 36 cases to deliver around Aylestone. Roller blind doors that let the wind whistle in freezing me to death in winter, and bottles with the caps in the air as the milk froze. After delivering 600 bottles, home to the gas fire. And then the sheer agony as my hands came back to life again. No wonder I have arthritis setting in. All for £42 per week. Friday was collection day, so a late finish. in te week it was easy to leave the dairy at 0530 and get back at 0945, but Fridays was 4pm sometimes. We worked a three week month, 7on, 2 off twice, and then 7on and three off, giving us a long weekend. I was building my own business during the day, and only did it for 18 months, but some of the stories I could recount would have you in stitches.