Koenigsegg v Pagani

Koenigsegg v Pagani

Author
Discussion

Gandahar

Original Poster:

8,991 posts

84 months

Thursday 18th June 2015
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Not really got many credentials to ask this on this forum as my daily drive is far removed, but looking at these two, let's call it left field choices, how would you rate them nowadays for the crucial event of buying one?

The Swedes to me always seemed on the back foot, but now it seems they are doing more than Pagani on the car front and, perhaps more importantly, on social media.

These two car companies are in a league of their own, for good or bad, compared to the big 3 of Fer,Lam and now Mcl so how are they rated for people with quite a big wallet?

gregf40

1,114 posts

72 months

Thursday 18th June 2015
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I should start by saying I have been considering getting a Agera R for some time...

For me Pagani lost their way with the Huayra. The Zonda was beautiful (a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast and sounded awesome.

It was for those who could afford a Veyron but had eyes which functioned properly and were willing to sacrifice some speed. hehe

The Huayra is not beautiful (although still a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast (but no where near Agera fast) and sounds...different!

With the beauty now lacking (in my opinion) people are turning towards Koenigsegg to provide something which is still totally bespoke and mind bogglingly fast.

I wish the Agera looked better...but all is forgiven when you get in one and start driving. It is an amazing machine (faster in a straight line than the 918/P1/LaFerrari) and with an excellent fit and finish (far better than CCR's!).

I'm hoping to be able to get one by the end of the year - so will keep you updated on my decision!

Obi Wan

2,006 posts

171 months

Thursday 18th June 2015
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Personally I would go for a agrea r every time. I'm not a fan of the Hyura's looks.

SydneyBridge

5,137 posts

114 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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I am sure Mr P would make another Zonda if you asked him nicely..

Streetrod

6,434 posts

162 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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It will come of no surprise to anyone on here that I am a bit of a Pagani fan, but on the flip side I also have a huge respect for Koeniggsegg.

The Zonda a will go down as a classic that I suspect would feature highly on most gear heads wish lists. The Hurayra has been like that difficult second album, very divisive and a bit marmite.

Does that worry Pagani, I suspect not as it has been a commercial success with all the limited run of 100 sold in a lot shorter timespan than it took to sell the first 100 Zonda’s. And with various other variants in the pipeline and pre-orders being very healthy things are looking good for the company.

Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).

Personally I would like to see them produce a completely new car, the current shape has not changed much in 15 years. They have the skills and the technology to be a real force but I feel will always drop well behind Pagani commercially unless they produce a single model that they could sell to at least 100 customers, A new version every 6 -10 cars or so does not build customer loyalty in my opinion

AyBee

9,142 posts

158 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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gregf40 said:
I should start by saying I have been considering getting a Agera R for some time...

For me Pagani lost their way with the Huayra. The Zonda was beautiful (a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast and sounded awesome.

It was for those who could afford a Veyron but had eyes which functioned properly and were willing to sacrifice some speed. hehe

The Huayra is not beautiful (although still a work of art)...totally bespoke...incredibly fast (but no where near Agera fast) and sounds...different!

With the beauty now lacking (in my opinion) people are turning towards Koenigsegg to provide something which is still totally bespoke and mind bogglingly fast.

I wish the Agera looked better...but all is forgiven when you get in one and start driving. It is an amazing machine (faster in a straight line than the 918/P1/LaFerrari) and with an excellent fit and finish (far better than CCR's!).

I'm hoping to be able to get one by the end of the year - so will keep you updated on my decision!
Agree with this yes The Zonda was a hard act to follow and the Huayra hasn't really followed it. I (and I suspect I'm not alone) would rather have a Zonda than take a Huayra, even if the Huayra is the more capable car - the Zonda just tugs on the heart strings that bit more.

BelfastBoy

770 posts

116 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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Streetrod said:
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).
Ah, my friend, this old debate again, eh? I totally agree with you on the top speed issue. After the Veyron, other manufacturers seemed to lose interest in silly outright top speeds - after all, unless you're lucky enough to own either a disused military airfield, or your own country (so you can close roads), where are you going to drag race against your friends? So the post-Veyron halo cars - 918, P1, LaFerrari, and Huarya - are obviously capable of way over 200mph, but definitely don't emphasise their top speeds as being (in relative terms) anything special. Where Koenigsegg differ is that they do still seem to have an obsession with big numbers - acceleration, horsepower, weight, power-to-weight ratio, and yes, vague claims of 270mph+ top speeds. Where I think they maybe fall down in comparison with other manufacturers is still playing this numbers game when their rivals are looking elsewhere for their competitive edge. Who else is still in the numbers game? Seems to me it's (in perception terms, no disrespect or slights intended here) less prestigious companies like Hennessey or Shelby.

I'm almost sick of saying this now - if Koenigsegg believe they have a car that can do 273mph, let's see the evidence please.

Edited by BelfastBoy on Friday 19th June 13:11

Streetrod

6,434 posts

162 months

Friday 19th June 2015
quotequote all
BelfastBoy said:
Streetrod said:
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).
Ah, my friend, this old debate again, eh? I totally agree with you on the top speed issue. After the Veyron, other manufacturers seemed to lose interest in silly outright top speeds - after all, unless you're lucky enough to own either a disused military airfield, or your own country (so you can close roads), where are you going to drag race against your friends? So the post-generation halo cars - 918, P1, LaFerrari, and Huarya - are obviously capable of way over 200mph, but definitely don't emphasise their top speeds as being (in relative terms) anything special. Where Koenigsegg differ is that they do still seem to have an obsession with big numbers - acceleration, horsepower, weight, power-to-weight ratio, and yes, vague claims of 270mph+ top speeds. Where I think they maybe fall down in comparison with other manufacturers is still playing this numbers game when their rivals are looking elsewhere for their competitive edge. Who else is still in the numbers game? Seems to me it's (in perception terms, no disrespect or slights intended here) less prestigious companies like Hennessey or Shelby.

I'm almost sick of saying this now - if Koenigsegg believe they have a car that can do 273mph, let's see the evidence please.
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.

Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one

gregf40

1,114 posts

72 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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Streetrod said:
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.

Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/nurburgring-bans-lap-times/32397

Davey S2

12,306 posts

210 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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Streetrod said:
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.
Bonneville?

Who owns Nardo?

Streetrod

6,434 posts

162 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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Davey S2 said:
Streetrod said:
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.
Bonneville?

Who owns Nardo?
Bonneville would be difficult as the Egg would not be eligible for any of the SCTA classes which would allow it to run. If they did want to run they would have to alter the car a whole lot to make it legal at which point it is not a standard Egg anymore.

You can’t just rock up to Bonneville and run your car, you have to jump through various hoops.

As for Nardo, how long is the straight??


Streetrod

6,434 posts

162 months

Friday 19th June 2015
quotequote all
gregf40 said:
Streetrod said:
Totally agree mate, the only place on earth where they can safely prove their top speed claims is owned by VW and surprise surprise they are never going to get to use of that.

Also they have constantly threatened to challenge the Ring record, but although they have been observed testing there on a number of occasions a time has never officially been posted. Look even Lamborghini have gone sub seven mins now. Koeniggsegg are going to have to really smash the record now to make any kind of impact, personally I think they have missed the boat on this one
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/nurburgring-bans-lap-times/32397
Thanks for pointing that out Greg, I did not know. In which case Koeniggsegg need to find another USP to hang their hat on

BelfastBoy

770 posts

116 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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Some interesting info about the Nardo ring here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nard%C3%B2_Ring

Basically, although from the driver's perspective it looks like a never-ending straight, a car will be losing some of its top speed potential from constant cornering. (Random example: many years the XJ220 did 217mph at Nardo, but on a straight surface the top speed apparently would've been more like 223mph. Pity nobody ever seems to have tested that.) I also understand that the surface at Nardo is extremely bumpy and unsettling, and that there's slopes and dips at various parts of the track. In short, it's not an ideal location for safe high-speed testing.

Since VW's Ehra Lessien would presumably never be available for Koenigsegg, I imagine their best option would be to find some very long flat straight public road somewhere and request permission to have it closed for a short period of time.

AW111

5,683 posts

89 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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BelfastBoy said:
Since VW's Ehra Lessien would presumably never be available for Koenigsegg, I imagine their best option would be to find some very long flat straight public road somewhere and request permission to have it closed for a short period of time.
I bet Putin would close a nice section of highway if they offered him a drive (after the record attempt, obviously smile)

gregf40

1,114 posts

72 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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AW111 said:
I bet Putin would close a nice section of highway if they offered him a drive (after the record attempt, obviously smile)
Or come over to England one night...I imagine one could (if one was inclined) reach a high speed on this lovely straight Roman road...not that I would know...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.755514,-1.058986...

Streetrod

6,434 posts

162 months

Friday 19th June 2015
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gregf40 said:
AW111 said:
I bet Putin would close a nice section of highway if they offered him a drive (after the record attempt, obviously smile)
Or come over to England one night...I imagine one could (if one was inclined) reach a high speed on this lovely straight Roman road...not that I would know...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.755514,-1.058986...
Nice idea, personally I would not fancy doing 270+mph on that road, one minor twitch and suddenly you are a part of the sceneryeek

MrChips

3,006 posts

166 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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Streetrod said:
Koeniggsegg like Pagani now produce cars that from a quality point of view put the other main players into the shade. I do worry that their singular USP i.e. silly top speed does distract from the car’s other capabilities. Also the move to even more outlandish and questionable (IMO) styling on the 1-One does nothing to enhance the brand. (Pagani can also be accused of this).

Personally I would like to see them produce a completely new car, the current shape has not changed much in 15 years. They have the skills and the technology to be a real force but I feel will always drop well behind Pagani commercially unless they produce a single model that they could sell to at least 100 customers, A new version every 6 -10 cars or so does not build customer loyalty in my opinion
yes

I agree that they seem overly fussed on how many horsepower their latest push on that V8 has but from what I have seen (only in documentaries) I do like their engineering and detailed approach.

I haven't been up close to an Agera but the one thing it seems lacking is the spine tingling noise that any hypercar must have. Maybe it is different in the flesh but on film the v8 always sounds a bit, well, flat?

Wonder what the latest is with their Regera...


Mezzanine

5,017 posts

175 months

Sunday 21st June 2015
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Davey S2 said:
Who owns Nardo?
Think Porsche own it these days, it is their main proving ground IIRC.

GFWilliams

4,858 posts

163 months

Sunday 21st June 2015
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I am lucky to have spent time in both... For me the Zonda has the best noise and is the best drivers car (like a big V12 Go Kart) and the Huayra is the best looking. I shot a Huayra next to a Zonda S a few days ago at their new factory and couldn't help feeling the Zonda looked quite dated in comparison and the Huayra had much nicer flowing lines

andrew

9,033 posts

148 months

Sunday 21st June 2015
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gregf40 said:
Or come over to England one night...I imagine one could (if one was inclined) reach a high speed on this lovely straight Roman road...not that I would know...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.755514,-1.058986...
my first driving lesson involved that stretch of road thumbup