BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?

BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?

Author
Discussion

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Hi guys,

This has probably been a topic that's been discussed in length but I want some more opinions.
I'm currently building a stage 3 Fiesta ST which will be around the 300-340bhp range. I haven't quite finished yet but I know there will be a day where I decide to move on and progress into something better.
The 2 cars I'm considering are in the title which are a BMW M140i and a Golf R (Mk7)

I know both cars have their advantages and disadvantages. For example the BMW has that lovely 3 litre B58 lump and rear wheel drive but will the rear wheel drive become a pain to live with as I would plan on tuning both cars. Meanwhile the Golf R will put the power down far easier on a British road and the Golf ( in my opinion) is the better looking car of the two. The only disadvantage of the Golf R is the fact it has been described as being "dull" to drive. Although it won't sound as good as the BMW it isn't a deal breaker for me personally.

The plan with both cars as I've said would be to tune them, I'm aware on a stage 2 a Golf R will go past 400bhp and the M140i can reach about 450. I just want to know if anyone has moved from a Golf R to an M140i or moved from a M140i to a Golf R and your reasons why. I'd love to know your thoughts.
Thanks guys smile

16v stretch

922 posts

134 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Whichever you fancy.

There's plenty of rwd cars with more power that manage just fine, drive to the conditions and you won't have an issue. If you're the type of guy to mash the throttle in the wet, you'd probably be better with the Golf R.

Magnum 475

2,909 posts

109 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
I’d say M140i. BUT, before you thinking of adding power, start by adding a decent LSD, and a working on the suspension. The standard car is great, but with some choice suspension upgrades & LSD it becomes brilliant.


Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
16v stretch said:
Whichever you fancy.

There's plenty of rwd cars with more power that manage just fine, drive to the conditions and you won't have an issue. If you're the type of guy to mash the throttle in the wet, you'd probably be better with the Golf R.
That's true, there are more powerful rwd cars. I live in South Wales so it's raining basically 80% of the time so I'm trying to balance which one would be better. My Father has a Mk3 Focus RS and the way that accelerates no matter the weather boggles my mind to be honest

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Magnum 475 said:
I’d say M140i. BUT, before you thinking of adding power, start by adding a decent LSD, and a working on the suspension. The standard car is great, but with some choice suspension upgrades & LSD it becomes brilliant.
Yeah I've heard they need an LSD and lowering springs. The M140i is THE car I want I just need to consider the Golf R because a majority of people say how good they are at absolutely everything and it is 'the perfect daily'

SDM94

19 posts

16 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
I bought a new S3 tail-end of 2017 and only kept it 14 months. It is a quick point-to-point car and can shift well in any conditions but it’s just a but bland. I swapped it for a new M140i in 2019 and loved it straight away. The B58 is a fantastic engine and gave fuel economy almost on par with the S3. Yes the RWD needs some respect especially without the LSD. I never felt like it needed more power but rather some handling mods to tighten it up a bit. There’s some really well spec’d cars available at good prices given the overall performance. I would’ve still had mine but due to a change of circumstances, it was traded in last week.

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
SDM94 said:
I bought a new S3 tail-end of 2017 and only kept it 14 months. It is a quick point-to-point car and can shift well in any conditions but it’s just a but bland. I swapped it for a new M140i in 2019 and loved it straight away. The B58 is a fantastic engine and gave fuel economy almost on par with the S3. Yes the RWD needs some respect especially without the LSD. I never felt like it needed more power but rather some handling mods to tighten it up a bit. There’s some really well spec’d cars available at good prices given the overall performance. I would’ve still had mine but due to a change of circumstances, it was traded in last week.
Thank you, this was massively useful cause I'm looking for people that have progressed into an M140i from a Golf R ( or Audi S3 in your case). I think bang for buck they can't be beaten at the moment smile

QuattroDave

1,062 posts

105 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Ex M140i owner myself and without doubt it won't be as quick on country roads as standard as the passive suspension is far from good but the relatively short wheelbase, rwd, 6pot noise and 'lively' nature of the car make it far more fun. Oh an when in no hurry that engine with the 8AT can easily achieve 50mpg on a run (if that's a consideration!)

My next door neighbour loved mine so much he bought one himself and had it tuned to 440hp, it was lively alright!

I find the VW 4pot fart nothing short of pathetic but then I've never liked Golfs so maybe don't listen to me!

SDM94

19 posts

16 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Dylanaledhall said:
Thank you, this was massively useful cause I'm looking for people that have progressed into an M140i from a Golf R ( or Audi S3 in your case). I think bang for buck they can't be beaten at the moment smile
You should drive both IMHO and see which you prefer to your driving style/roads. Don’t get me wrong the VAG cars are a good package but for the same cost I personally don’t think you can beat having 6 cylinders - it feels a bit more special. In my case too the M140i was £400 cheaper to insure! Goodluck with whichever car you choose, either way I’m sure you won’t be disappointed.

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
QuattroDave said:
Ex M140i owner myself and without doubt it won't be as quick on country roads as standard as the passive suspension is far from good but the relatively short wheelbase, rwd, 6pot noise and 'lively' nature of the car make it far more fun. Oh an when in no hurry that engine with the 8AT can easily achieve 50mpg on a run (if that's a consideration!)

My next door neighbour loved mine so much he bought one himself and had it tuned to 440hp, it was lively alright!

I find the VW 4pot fart nothing short of pathetic but then I've never liked Golfs so maybe don't listen to me!
Yeah the engine is a peach to be fair, it is really powerful but as mentioned it can return decent mpg. It is a consideration to me to be honest as I do a lot of motorway miles.

It's definitely a car I'd need to get used to as I've only really driven FWD cars. I'd want to get an LSD on there asap to help out that rear end smile .

Limpet

5,298 posts

138 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Magnum 475 said:
I’d say M140i. BUT, before you thinking of adding power, start by adding a decent LSD, and a working on the suspension. The standard car is great, but with some choice suspension upgrades & LSD it becomes brilliant.
This, all day long. I've never understood the thinking behind adding power to these without addressing the diff and suspension.

The B58 is a fantastic thing, even factory standard.

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Limpet said:
This, all day long. I've never understood the thinking behind adding power to these without addressing the diff and suspension.

The B58 is a fantastic thing, even factory standard.
Definitely something to consider, especially with how fast an M140i can become with minimal modifications. I'm currently building my ST but I haven't sorted a front diff yet but it definitely needs one. I know an M140i is a completely different beast but if I was to get an M140i I'd only go to stage 1 without the diff, wouldn't go stage 2 without it.

mr momo

80 posts

208 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Depends on the type of roads, weather and how big your cohones are.

Mainly A&B roads here can be of variable surface quality, dodgy in autumn and treacherous in winter, so the R was brilliant. A set of decent all-weather/winters should make the RWD BMW strong too.

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
mr momo said:
Depends on the type of roads, weather and how big your cohones are.

Mainly A&B roads here can be of variable surface quality, dodgy in autumn and treacherous in winter, so the R was brilliant. A set of decent all-weather/winters should make the RWD BMW strong too.
Something I need to get out of my head is the fact I'm not going to be hooning it everywhere I go. So I doubt if the lack of AWD will impede progress that much. I think the BMW will require a more "mature" approach and more skill to drive quickly so this is the debate I'm having with myself biggrin

Edited by Dylanaledhall on Thursday 21st January 22:22

Toltec

6,942 posts

200 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Dylanaledhall said:
Definitely something to consider, especially with how fast an M140i can become with minimal modifications. I'm currently building my ST but I haven't sorted a front diff yet but it definitely needs one. I know an M140i is a completely different beast but if I was to get an M140i I'd only go to stage 1 without the diff, wouldn't go stage 2 without it.
An lsd on a rwd car doesn't do what it appears you think it does. They allow you to get more power down were one wheel has less traction than the other. Up to the point you overwhelm both tyres and things get exciting much more quickly than if you had an open diff with one wheel spinning.

Fair enough if you leave the TC on it may sort that out, but an lsd doesn't make a car less lairy, it is there to make it faster.

Apologies if I read your posts incorrectly, it just seemed like you thought an lsd on rwd did the same dynamically as on a fwd. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't fit one smile

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Toltec said:
An lsd on a rwd car doesn't do what it appears you think it does. They allow you to get more power down were one wheel has less traction than the other. Up to the point you overwhelm both tyres and things get exciting much more quickly than if you had an open diff with one wheel spinning.

Fair enough if you leave the TC on it may sort that out, but an lsd doesn't make a car less lairy, it is there to make it faster.

Apologies if I read your posts incorrectly, it just seemed like you thought an lsd on rwd did the same dynamically as on a fwd. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't fit one smile
Yeah sorry maybe I didn't make it that clear. I know a RWD car is always going to act like a RWD car no matter the weather, road surface or tires. I do hear an LSD will make the rear of a car like an M140i more predictable and controllable which is what I would be after smile only trouble is, the fact LSDs are massively expensive frown , especially for the M140i. I guess this is why so many people avoid this modification

Edited by Dylanaledhall on Thursday 21st January 23:01

Greg the Fish

1,410 posts

43 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
If you want one to devastate your wallet before you even start 'tuning' it. Get the BM

If you want your house burgled and a knife held to your throat for a set of car keys. Get the Golf.

Hope that helps.

Get a Dodge Charger and play with that. Will be more fun.

J4CKO

36,433 posts

177 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
You need to drive one, you seem to be getting ahead of yourself talking about tuning an M140 them to 450 or more bhp but would drive one before you get too carried away with it.

Try not to fixate too much on power numbers, I have done that in the past and you can end up getting the wrong car. A 500 bhp One series is cool but I realised after a remap it was quick enough at 360 ish, it piles on speed as fast as I would ever want really, had a go in a 450 bhp M140i and it just seemed to spin even more and I decided not to bother doing any more to mine.

As I have said in the other thread, have lent my M135i to my son and he likes it, but he doesn't want one having spent some time with it, he took a mate out who fancies one who said he couldn't be arsed with the squirming about when its cold and damp having been in it.

I would say get a manual one, or at least try the auto as I find it frustrating when trying to drive it spiritedly, I had plans for it but decided it was not a keeper, maybe if it had been manual but not with the auto, you may love it but if you like the ST I think you may find it a bit meh once you get past the sheer shove. I did think of doing the suspension and fitting an LSD but will just buy something else.

I would suggest a Golf R over the BMW to be honest, but would also suggest a Civic Type R, Hyundai I30N, Cayman or leave it a bit longer and get and M2, just dont think if you love a modded ST that you will take to an M140i easily, might be wrong but do get a decent go in one.



Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
Greg the Fish said:
If you want one to devastate your wallet before you even start 'tuning' it. Get the BM

If you want your house burgled and a knife held to your throat for a set of car keys. Get the Golf.

Hope that helps.

Get a Dodge Charger and play with that. Will be more fun.
Golf Rs are stolen regularly aren't they? frown

As for me a charger isn't really up my street. I think it would be a bit too heavy and I think the Golf and the M140 will be a lot easier and cheaper to tune ( just my opinion). Plus I think the running of a decent charger will be way more than the other two. But yet again, haven't owned one so can't really give a detailed answer biggrin

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Thursday 21st January 2021
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
You need to drive one, you seem to be getting ahead of yourself talking about tuning an M140 them to 450 or more bhp but would drive one before you get too carried away with it.

Try not to fixate too much on power numbers, I have done that in the past and you can end up getting the wrong car. A 500 bhp One series is cool but I realised after a remap it was quick enough at 360 ish, it piles on speed as fast as I would ever want really, had a go in a 450 bhp M140i and it just seemed to spin even more and I decided not to bother doing any more to mine.

As I have said in the other thread, have lent my M135i to my son and he likes it, but he doesn't want one having spent some time with it, he took a mate out who fancies one who said he couldn't be arsed with the squirming about when its cold and damp having been in it.

I would say get a manual one, or at least try the auto as I find it frustrating when trying to drive it spiritedly, I had plans for it but decided it was not a keeper, maybe if it had been manual but not with the auto, you may love it but if you like the ST I think you may find it a bit meh once you get past the sheer shove. I did think of doing the suspension and fitting an LSD but will just buy something else.

I would suggest a Golf R over the BMW to be honest, but would also suggest a Civic Type R, Hyundai I30N, Cayman or leave it a bit longer and get and M2, just dont think if you love a modded ST that you will take to an M140i easily, might be wrong but do get a decent go in one.
Hey J4CKO, didn't expect to see you here, surely you're fed up of me by now? biggrin

Yeah I completely get where you're coming from, and to be honest I'm not really that bothered about the numbers cause the both cars will act completely different to each other. I just like a bit of a project and seeing where I could get an M140i to would be something to keep me busy smile

Again, I do need to try both, I definitely could prefer the Golf R but having seen so many people go from Golf to M140 ( or M135) there must be a reason.
As for other contenders I think I'll be looking at cars that aren't FWD as I've had FWD all my life and just want something different. I do like the M2, it's just the fact it doesn't have the B58 and is so much more expensive does kind of put me off. I know it's a proper M car but like I said in an earlier reply I'm not going to be hooning all day so most of the time It would make no difference whether I was in an M140 or an M2, definitely wouldn't be against having a go of an M2 though, plus they look the business smile