BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?

BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?

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Glenn63

1,764 posts

61 months

Friday 6th May
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Dylanaledhall said:
Bearings said:
Just to update my earlier comments about suspension replacement - I ended up with a late 2017 M140i Shadow Edition with passive suspension.

As other people have commented, the stock suspension setup leaves a lot to be desired. The rear suspension is basically your spine as it has no damping at all.

Replaced the stock setup to a Bilstein B12 pack (B8 dampers and Eibach Pro springs) a couple of weeks ago and this really does solve 95% of my issues. Car is a lot more compliant especially when hustled quickly down bumpy B roads and I don't feel like it will launch me in to the hedges. It's firm but not in a crashy way anymore.

This video was a major point for me as you see a side by side comparison of the setups - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL_hwixVDYc

On hard acceleration, the back end still feels 'squishy' to me until it settles down but I expect rear subframe inserts (2 packs needed apparently- front and rear) should begin to solve that. The next step after that will be an LSD but that is a substantial investment so taking it one step at a time til I'm happy with it.

Edited by Bearings on Thursday 5th May 15:43
Everyone does seem to go with the Bilsteins, speaks volumes really doesn't it? If I was to get an M140i the LSD would have to wait because I'm not on the best pay in the world at the moment biggrin I believe they're about £1500-£2000 for the diff and to get it fitted if I'm not mistaken? I guess you could get it done cheaper if you know someone, a garage etc. Personally, I'd be doing the strut brace, underbody brace, Bilsteins and M4 control arms first then see how it is.

Something else, how are the brakes on these cars? I hear they're good but can they deal with Stage 1 (400ish bhp)/ Stage 2 (450ish bhp) or is it worth upgrading those as well?

Edited by Dylanaledhall on Friday 6th May 07:57
The standard brakes fade quickly on track as in about 5 laps of Donington and done. But all I did was DS2500 pads, braided lines and 5.1 fluid and brakes are constantly good for 20-30 minutes of very hard braking, had no fade at all when at Anglesey.

Also super easy to get good power gains, £500 to go to 420ish bhp, but add a down pipe £450 and fuel pump £300 you up to 480ish and can sell your original cat for around £700 at the moment so rather cheap to gain 150bhp on standard. That kind of gains on my old Impreza sti would have been thousands!

Bearings

40 posts

119 months

Friday 6th May
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Some good comments here re the 1 seires.
It's not perfect or the prettiest car but it's a solid platform with some mild fettling for my requirements and without incurring full-fat M-car tax on parts / running costs.


No intention of tracking my car. My preference is the occasional B-road blast therefore having an eye on handling at this point. My main point for getting the car was RWD and 'that' 6-pot engine in a hatchback body before the world goes completely soulless / electric!

Also no intention of upping the power at this point - history is a 190bhp Gen7 Celica and Golf GTI Mk5 200bhp so 335bhp is plenty rapid for me at the moment! biggrin


Edited by Bearings on Friday 6th May 11:23


Edited by Bearings on Friday 6th May 11:24

Bearings

40 posts

119 months

Friday 6th May
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Just to add, I think I spent around 7-800 on the Bilstein B12 kit (it's recommended to get some uprated bumpstops as well) including installation if that helps with figuring out costs. It was part of a Xmas discount deal but I think you can occasionally pick up B12 kits from AutoDoc for around 500-ish when they have a deal on and fit it yourself if you have the tools and skill to do this.

Glenn63

1,764 posts

61 months

Friday 6th May
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If you want a daily with occasional b road blasts it’s perfectly good out the box imo. Best engine in a hot hatch. Only if you really go for it on a blast or do lots of them/ track would it be worth the suspension upgrades. I just like modifying my cars tbh but it was fine when I got it as standard.

Previous

1,009 posts

131 months

Friday 6th May
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Is there a suspension upgrade that keeps stock height (just dampers...no coilovers!) for the 140i ?

Apologies for thread hijack! Enjoyed reading it so far!

Glenn63

1,764 posts

61 months

Friday 6th May
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Previous said:
Is there a suspension upgrade that keeps stock height (just dampers...no coilovers!) for the 140i ?

Apologies for thread hijack! Enjoyed reading it so far!
I believe you can buy just the Bilstein B8 dampers on their own. The b16’s are height adjustable so set them to suit your needs.

liner33

9,564 posts

179 months

Friday 6th May
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As said the Bilsteins are height adjustable but it’s the springs that determine the ride height not the dampers

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Saturday 7th May
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So finally went out in a Golf R today. The car was red ( tornado red I believe? Not too sure with the VW colour names) with a few cosmetic alterations such as spoiler, diffuser black alloys. Also had a few performance mods such as a Stage 1, panel filter and a back-box delete.

To be honest, for a car with supposedly 360 bhp I was disappointed. Don't get me wrong it was a quick enough car, decent shove, but really didn't feel any quicker than my ST to be honest. Now, it could be down to the car masking the performance because of how well-built it is but I can definitely see why people go stage 2 or 3 on them, I think they need it imo.

Apart from that, an absolutely stunning car inside and out. Quality was really good, seats were comfy everything was nice to touch, well layed out etc.

Hopefully I'll get the M140i drive soon and decide from there smile

Edited by Dylanaledhall on Saturday 7th May 13:17

M.F.D

385 posts

78 months

Sunday 8th May
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Not too sure what you expected, your lighter Fiesta has around the same power and will no doubt feel much faster than the bigger Golf.

Remember there are other options out there, the Leon Cupra 300 has a really nice chassis and with the same lump as the golf is just as easy to tune.

On a side note, please don't buy a Golf R with a "BYE" registration, talking about stage this stage that...... nono

Riskins

162 posts

102 months

Sunday 8th May
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I sold my 2014 Fiesta ST-2 back in 2016 to “upgrade” to a new Golf R DSG. Once the new car honeymoon period was over I realised whilst the Golf was much quicker (both cars stock) it was less fun, a lot less fun.

I Went down the usual route most owners do of modding, this didn’t make it any more fun only faster. The Golf was sold at 18mths old and I’ve never missed it once. I had previously owned a Mk6 GTi manual which I had a stage 2 tune (300bhp) so same power as the R and this was a riot to drive in comparison, genuinely missed that car and I guess what I thought the R would be with more of the same fun.

Good luck in your search but I’d struggle to be letting a 300bhp Fiesta ST go, that must be an absolute riot on a B road and I’m not convinced the Golf will fill its shoes, unless you want a fast and safe daily.

M.F.D

385 posts

78 months

Sunday 8th May
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Riskins said:
I sold my 2014 Fiesta ST-2 back in 2016 to “upgrade” to a new Golf R DSG. Once the new car honeymoon period was over I realised whilst the Golf was much quicker (both cars stock) it was less fun, a lot less fun.

I Went down the usual route most owners do of modding, this didn’t make it any more fun only faster. The Golf was sold at 18mths old and I’ve never missed it once. I had previously owned a Mk6 GTi manual which I had a stage 2 tune (300bhp) so same power as the R and this was a riot to drive in comparison, genuinely missed that car and I guess what I thought the R would be with more of the same fun.

Good luck in your search but I’d struggle to be letting a 300bhp Fiesta ST go, that must be an absolute riot on a B road and I’m not convinced the Golf will fill its shoes, unless you want a fast and safe daily.
I would totally agree with this. Mk7 FST is a decent little car to drive, next logical step for me would be to a Megane RS. Not sure if the OP is just looking for a straight line hero though?

resolve10

830 posts

22 months

Sunday 8th May
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M.F.D said:
I would totally agree with this. Mk7 FST is a decent little car to drive, next logical step for me would be to a Megane RS. Not sure if the OP is just looking for a straight line hero though?
This is exactly what it boils down to really. Everyone wants different things from a car. Personally I'd find a Golf R quite boring, but then I found a standard BMW M2 too fast so maybe I'm not a good person to listen to laugh

I find a lot more enjoyment in the 200-300bhp range which you can exploit more of the time on the road. The OP sounds like he has that car already!

Megane RS is a great car, I have one, but I don't think it will offer the OP much different over the modded Fiesta?

M.F.D

385 posts

78 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
resolve10 said:
This is exactly what it boils down to really. Everyone wants different things from a car. Personally I'd find a Golf R quite boring, but then I found a standard BMW M2 too fast so maybe I'm not a good person to listen to laugh

I find a lot more enjoyment in the 200-300bhp range which you can exploit more of the time on the road. The OP sounds like he has that car already!

Megane RS is a great car, I have one, but I don't think it will offer the OP much different over the modded Fiesta?
Yeah, totally this. I've had plenty 'fast' cars that have been rather dull to drive. I had a long term loan of a brand new (F40) M135i and it was every bit as quick as my standard JDM Impreza STI in a straight line, but a total yawn-fest in comparison.

The Megane is probably the better drivers car, especially out the box. Never owned a Fiesta ST or even driven one properly, but the Megane is just so capable and rewarding to drive. My 320bhp RS250 Cup with decent brakes and a few suspension upgrades was a properly capable car.

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
M.F.D said:
Not too sure what you expected, your lighter Fiesta has around the same power and will no doubt feel much faster than the bigger Golf.

Remember there are other options out there, the Leon Cupra 300 has a really nice chassis and with the same lump as the golf is just as easy to tune.

On a side note, please don't buy a Golf R with a "BYE" registration, talking about stage this stage that...... nono
Haha, knew someone would clock the plate biggrin To be honest, I wouldn't really want that plate anyway as I have my own private registration. It's nothing stupid, it's literally my initials.

But in regards to the Golf I know my car is quite a bit lighter but I really didn't think a car with 120bhp extra would feel that similar in a straight line.

On a sidenote, I really do like the cupra, love how they look but I just think as soon as I start applying power to one of those it's just going to be spin city biggrin don't get me wrong, I like a bit of wheel spin, I find it quite fun but I've seen videos of some 500bhp cupras and although they are massively quick from around 60mph onwards, anything below that or in the rain, forget it. One of my favourite ones is this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5nU8dB0YxfQ


Worth a view imo ( I know it's not a cupra but same engine etc).

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
Riskins said:
I sold my 2014 Fiesta ST-2 back in 2016 to “upgrade” to a new Golf R DSG. Once the new car honeymoon period was over I realised whilst the Golf was much quicker (both cars stock) it was less fun, a lot less fun.

I Went down the usual route most owners do of modding, this didn’t make it any more fun only faster. The Golf was sold at 18mths old and I’ve never missed it once. I had previously owned a Mk6 GTi manual which I had a stage 2 tune (300bhp) so same power as the R and this was a riot to drive in comparison, genuinely missed that car and I guess what I thought the R would be with more of the same fun.

Good luck in your search but I’d struggle to be letting a 300bhp Fiesta ST go, that must be an absolute riot on a B road and I’m not convinced the Golf will fill its shoes, unless you want a fast and safe daily.
Definitely agree smile they are fun. To be honest I didn't expect the Golf to be fun as it is a much more "grown up" car than a fiesta but I think I've already mentioned in this thread that I know quite a few that have had a fiesta, gone to an A45, for example, then gone back to a fiesta because they miss how fun they are

Dylanaledhall

Original Poster:

359 posts

42 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
resolve10 said:
This is exactly what it boils down to really. Everyone wants different things from a car. Personally I'd find a Golf R quite boring, but then I found a standard BMW M2 too fast so maybe I'm not a good person to listen to laugh

I find a lot more enjoyment in the 200-300bhp range which you can exploit more of the time on the road. The OP sounds like he has that car already!

Megane RS is a great car, I have one, but I don't think it will offer the OP much different over the modded Fiesta?
M2 was that quick was it? Interesting. I've booked a viewing of an M140i on Saturday, I'll be interested to see if that feel much different to the Golf because I hear most m140s Dyno at around 350-370 standard so should be a fair comparison I think. I don't want to tempt fate but I think I'll prefer the 140.

Méganes are great cars, just never interested me. I'm sure as track toys they are brilliant but I'm not naturally drawn towards them. And as you said, would a modded Mégane be that different ( on paper ) to what I've got now? laugh

Glenn63

1,764 posts

61 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
That’s the problem with 4wd I find, just mash the pedal and zero drama for fuss it just goes but takes away some of the excitement. Add in that it’s probably more insulated etc than the fiesta it just adds to the masking of power/speed/excitement.
At least with RWD you will have to manage the pedal a bit more, rear may step out requiring steering corrections etc makes it feel more of a handful and exciting imo.

M.F.D

385 posts

78 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
Dylanaledhall said:
Haha, knew someone would clock the plate biggrin To be honest, I wouldn't really want that plate anyway as I have my own private registration. It's nothing stupid, it's literally my initials.

But in regards to the Golf I know my car is quite a bit lighter but I really didn't think a car with 120bhp extra would feel that similar in a straight line.

On a sidenote, I really do like the cupra, love how they look but I just think as soon as I start applying power to one of those it's just going to be spin city biggrin don't get me wrong, I like a bit of wheel spin, I find it quite fun but I've seen videos of some 500bhp cupras and although they are massively quick from around 60mph onwards, anything below that or in the rain, forget it. One of my favourite ones is this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5nU8dB0YxfQ


Worth a view imo ( I know it's not a cupra but same engine etc).
Sorry you have me confused now. You said you're ST was stage whatever it is and estimated around 300-340bhp? The Golf R you drove was around 360bhp? Where is the 120bhp gap coming from?

Depends what you want, again sounds like you want a straight line rocket, in which case get the Golf. The m140i is severly traction limited once modified, made worse by the standard open diff.

The Megane is an epic car, but if you aren't bothered about driver involvement/going round corners then it will definately not be for you.

liner33

9,564 posts

179 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
Tyre choice and technique is more critical for the 140 for sure , the golf requires little finesse

The fact that dragy is littered with sub 3 second 0_60 times for the 140 means it can get down the road well with the right driver

manracer

1,392 posts

74 months

Sunday 8th May
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I had a cheap lease cupra formentor 300 which although quick was dull as you like. The infotainment issues meant it was given back after 3 months and I walked away.

In December just gone I picked up a 67 plate 3 door M140i. It has adaptive suspension and came with Michelin PSS tyres and felt very loose, granted it was the middle of winter and the tyres were part worn.

I've now fitted PS4 all round and stepped up to 92Y load rating. This combined with a stage 1 remap to 421bhp and I'm happy, sure an LSD could make it even better but I'm not convinced it's needed for road use.