Replacement for a Z4
Discussion
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.Downshiftup said:
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.cerb4.5lee said:
the Z4M will bite hard over bumpy roads because the suspension has absolutely no travel whatsoever
Bingo.BMW didn't spec the damping rates to deal with bumpy, British b-roads, sadly. I'm dropping mine back down to square 17s to both compensate for this (by adding sidewall), and to correct the front/rear balance a little.
Evo were effusive with praise for the Z4 they tested on this setup, so I'm hoping it goes some way to address one of my big bugbears.
C70R said:
cerb4.5lee said:
the Z4M will bite hard over bumpy roads because the suspension has absolutely no travel whatsoever
Bingo.BMW didn't spec the damping rates to deal with bumpy, British b-roads, sadly. I'm dropping mine back down to square 17s to both compensate for this (by adding sidewall), and to correct the front/rear balance a little.
Evo were effusive with praise for the Z4 they tested on this setup, so I'm hoping it goes some way to address one of my big bugbears.
jm8403 said:
C70R said:
cerb4.5lee said:
the Z4M will bite hard over bumpy roads because the suspension has absolutely no travel whatsoever
Bingo.BMW didn't spec the damping rates to deal with bumpy, British b-roads, sadly. I'm dropping mine back down to square 17s to both compensate for this (by adding sidewall), and to correct the front/rear balance a little.
Evo were effusive with praise for the Z4 they tested on this setup, so I'm hoping it goes some way to address one of my big bugbears.
I'm at Snetterton on Friday for its first track outing, and I'm going to use that as a baseline for tweaking the chassis to be usable on b-roads and fun on track.
My overriding goal is one of compromise. I don't want to do anything to worsen the already poor suspension on the road. This isn't going to be a pretend racing car (as I did with my last track car), but instead a road car that does 3-4 trackdays a year.
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.cerb4.5lee said:
It was always going to be a very tough ask of the Z4M for me because I had it straight after the Cerb. So I was always extra critical of it because it didn't sound anywhere near as good, plus it wasn't anywhere near as raw to drive either(in terms of NVH). Add to the fact that I wasn't a big fan of the gearbox/ride/suspension in the Z4M either, so I ended up going off it quite quickly.
Sorry, but what is NHV?Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.While the Z4M steering might not be the pinnacle of the art, it's certainly better than the inconsistent feel you get from the Z4 EPAS setup.
Improving the Z4 is about small, incremental changes in multiple places, rather than one silver bullet.
C70R said:
Really not as complicated as it sounds. A few folks on the Z4 forum have done it themselves.
While the Z4M steering might not be the pinnacle of the art, it's certainly better than the inconsistent feel you get from the Z4 EPAS setup.
Improving the Z4 is about small, incremental changes in multiple places, rather than one silver bullet.
Will try and dig that out on the forum, might be worthwhile.While the Z4M steering might not be the pinnacle of the art, it's certainly better than the inconsistent feel you get from the Z4 EPAS setup.
Improving the Z4 is about small, incremental changes in multiple places, rather than one silver bullet.
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.While the Z4M steering might not be the pinnacle of the art, it's certainly better than the inconsistent feel you get from the Z4 EPAS setup.
Improving the Z4 is about small, incremental changes in multiple places, rather than one silver bullet.
If this could solve the Z4 problem, and wouldn't cost a lot, it could be a good option. But so it is indeed the still flawed steering from the M?
Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.While the Z4M steering might not be the pinnacle of the art, it's certainly better than the inconsistent feel you get from the Z4 EPAS setup.
Improving the Z4 is about small, incremental changes in multiple places, rather than one silver bullet.
If this could solve the Z4 problem, and wouldn't cost a lot, it could be a good option. But so it is indeed the still flawed steering from the M?
Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.While the Z4M steering might not be the pinnacle of the art, it's certainly better than the inconsistent feel you get from the Z4 EPAS setup.
Improving the Z4 is about small, incremental changes in multiple places, rather than one silver bullet.
If this could solve the Z4 problem, and wouldn't cost a lot, it could be a good option. But so it is indeed the still flawed steering from the M?
Only you can answer that. You have to really love the given car and think of it as a keeper of sorts. Not only because of the above, but because with most modified cars you never recover the money if you do sell it. One of the few exceptions are maybe BBR MX5s.
Still won't probably fully recover it. But Japanese car culture is way more open to mods. I'm not sure if Z4C buyers are more of the pristine original type, which they might as well be since the car is a bit rare.
But I totally understand wanting to solve a problem in a car, which if it wasn't there, would make the car perfect for you. It's just the part of it really solving the problem, plus how much to pay for that "solution".
In the case of the Z4C, I have the same concerns about the suspension, steering, handling, which keeps me from buying one. But for me personally, I don't think I would be willing to spend money and time in mods. Unless I could sit in and drive one which had the mods to make sure it really solves it. To each his own. But unlike the BBR cars which are proven, have reviews and indeed improve the MX5 by many folds, these mods for the Z4 have probably only been done by a handful of people, who all undoubtedly will say it solves the problem and is well worth it. Plus the "problem" with the MX5 for most is much easier to solve. As it's only power.
But not for me though. The BBR solves the power problem I have with the MX5, but still doesn't solve all problems I have with the car. This is why I don't have a MX5 either. See, to me a car is about its engine. Specially a sports car or weekend car. And I just can't get excited about 4 pots. No matter how high they rev or any of that. S2000 doesn't do much for me for the same reasons. Sure, it's fun. But while driving I'm always wishing it had a better engine note, better character etc, in the same way I'm always wishing a car was RWD even if it's a good FWD car. So with these things you really need to decide for yourself.
But if you gentlemen go ahead and do these mods with the Z4C, would be great if you could get the car in the hands of a few YT reviewers out there to get the word out.
If you do solve the Z4C problems, you might start something.
To me, the Z4C is the closest to be there from the usual suspects. If you want a small, not too heavy 2-seater sports car with more than a 4-pot, from the modern era. It's hard to do anything about the weight of a 350Z and that horrible uninspiring interior. 370Z adds external overstyled bad taste to a not so much nicer place to be. Despite more power is barely any quicker, because of the extra weight over the Z4C. A SLK350 is a pig and not easy to throw around curves and the weight will always be there, even if you sort the suspension. An engine swap in a MX5 MC is also way more messing around and money. Plus in the end you end up with a Frankenstein car. Apart from this there is not much else. A Boxster or Cayman despite boring me, are totally different cars with the mid engine.
This just adds to the pity of BMW's decision of building a small 2-seater car which is a sports car in every way but the actual way. Which is my beef. So I wish you gentlemen doing the mods to a Z4C a lot of luck and patience. And please do report back.
Edited by Shifter1 on Monday 27th March 10:00
In extreme cases, you can recover a chunk of the money, i.e. if you turn to full race car. Look on race cars direct and you see the prices hold very firm. Even say race for KA's for example sitting at 4-6k. But yes, good post.
what do you mean by your last sentence?
what do you mean by your last sentence?
Edited by jm8403 on Monday 27th March 09:54
Shifter1 said:
It does sound tempting. But to keep in mind is the same conundrum as when modifying any car. Is it really worth it, if by the end, with all the money you spent you could just bought a "better" car and not be bothered?
Only you can answer that. You have to really love the given car and think of it as a keeper of sorts. Not only because of the above, but because with most modified cars you never recover the money if you do sell it. One of the few exceptions are maybe BBR MX5s.
Still won't probably fully recover it. But Japanese car culture is way more open to mods. I'm not sure if Z4C buyers are more of the pristine original type, which they might as well be since the car is a bit rare.
But I totally understand wanting to solve a problem in car, which if it wasn't there, would make the car perfect for you. It's just the part of it really solving the problem, plus how much to pay for that "solution".
In the case of the Z4C, I have the same concerns about the suspension, steering, handling, which keeps me from buying one. But for me personally, I don't think I would be willing to spend money and time in mods. Unless I could sit in and drive one which had the mods to make sure it really solves it. To each his own. But unlike the BBR cars which are proven, have reviews and indeed improve the MX5 by many folds, this mods for the Z4 have probably only been done by a handful of people, who all undoubtedly will say it solves the problem and is well worth it. Plus the "problem" with the MX5 for most is much easier to solve. As it's only power.
But for me though. The BBR solves the power problem I have with the MX5, but still doesn't solve all problems I have with the car. This is why I don't have a MX5 either. See, to me a car is about about its engine. Specially a sports car or weekend car. And I just can't get excited about 4 pots. No matter how high they rev or any of that. S2000 doesn't do much for me for the same reasons. Sure, it's fun. But while driving I'm always wishing it had a better engine note, better character etc, in the same way I'm always wishing a car was RWD even if it's a good FWD car. So with these things you really need to decide for yourself.
But if you gentlemen go ahead and do these mods with the Z4C, would be great if you could get the car in the hands of a few YT reviewers out there to get the word out.
If you do solve the Z4C problems, you might start something.
To me, the Z4C is the closest to be there from the usual suspects. If you want a small, not too heavy 2-seater with more than a 4-pot, from the modern era. It's hard to do anything about the weight of a 350Z and that horrible uninspiring interior. 370Z adds overstyled bad taste to a not so much nicer place to be. Despite more power is barely any quicker, because of the extra weight. A SLK350 is a pig and not easy to throw around curves and the weight will always be there, even if you sort the suspension. An engine swap in a MX5 MC is also way more messing around and money. Plus in the end you end up with a Frankenstein car. Apart from this there is not much else. A Boxster or Cayman despite boring me, are totally different cars with the mid engine.
This just adds to the pity of BMW's decision of building a small 2-seater car which is a sports car in every way but the actual way. Which is my beef. So I wish you gentlemen doing the mods on the Z4C a lot of lucky and patience. And please do report back.
As a BBR owner this was an interesting read Only you can answer that. You have to really love the given car and think of it as a keeper of sorts. Not only because of the above, but because with most modified cars you never recover the money if you do sell it. One of the few exceptions are maybe BBR MX5s.
Still won't probably fully recover it. But Japanese car culture is way more open to mods. I'm not sure if Z4C buyers are more of the pristine original type, which they might as well be since the car is a bit rare.
But I totally understand wanting to solve a problem in car, which if it wasn't there, would make the car perfect for you. It's just the part of it really solving the problem, plus how much to pay for that "solution".
In the case of the Z4C, I have the same concerns about the suspension, steering, handling, which keeps me from buying one. But for me personally, I don't think I would be willing to spend money and time in mods. Unless I could sit in and drive one which had the mods to make sure it really solves it. To each his own. But unlike the BBR cars which are proven, have reviews and indeed improve the MX5 by many folds, this mods for the Z4 have probably only been done by a handful of people, who all undoubtedly will say it solves the problem and is well worth it. Plus the "problem" with the MX5 for most is much easier to solve. As it's only power.
But for me though. The BBR solves the power problem I have with the MX5, but still doesn't solve all problems I have with the car. This is why I don't have a MX5 either. See, to me a car is about about its engine. Specially a sports car or weekend car. And I just can't get excited about 4 pots. No matter how high they rev or any of that. S2000 doesn't do much for me for the same reasons. Sure, it's fun. But while driving I'm always wishing it had a better engine note, better character etc, in the same way I'm always wishing a car was RWD even if it's a good FWD car. So with these things you really need to decide for yourself.
But if you gentlemen go ahead and do these mods with the Z4C, would be great if you could get the car in the hands of a few YT reviewers out there to get the word out.
If you do solve the Z4C problems, you might start something.
To me, the Z4C is the closest to be there from the usual suspects. If you want a small, not too heavy 2-seater with more than a 4-pot, from the modern era. It's hard to do anything about the weight of a 350Z and that horrible uninspiring interior. 370Z adds overstyled bad taste to a not so much nicer place to be. Despite more power is barely any quicker, because of the extra weight. A SLK350 is a pig and not easy to throw around curves and the weight will always be there, even if you sort the suspension. An engine swap in a MX5 MC is also way more messing around and money. Plus in the end you end up with a Frankenstein car. Apart from this there is not much else. A Boxster or Cayman despite boring me, are totally different cars with the mid engine.
This just adds to the pity of BMW's decision of building a small 2-seater car which is a sports car in every way but the actual way. Which is my beef. So I wish you gentlemen doing the mods on the Z4C a lot of lucky and patience. And please do report back.
I tend to agree with all your points to be fair, and in fact the reasons you mention in this post are why I did go for the Boxster instead of further modifying my mx5 to try and solve the problems the BBR kit doesn't, because the Porsche basically does solve the problems without really having to do anything to it. If I'd tried modding my 5 then found I still didn't like the car as much as I hoped, I've just lost the money.
Same reasons I didn't go for the z4c in the end. I do like them but to make them drive as well as a Boxster your hand is going in your wallet again and it's not as though they're particularly cheap cars to buy to begin with. Perhaps modifying these might even reduce the value, double whammy. Maybe not though...
As for whether the BBR mods on the 5 have resale value remains to be seen but I'm about to find out. Hopefully not the hard way.
Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
C70R said:
Downshiftup said:
jm8403 said:
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.While the Z4M steering might not be the pinnacle of the art, it's certainly better than the inconsistent feel you get from the Z4 EPAS setup.
Improving the Z4 is about small, incremental changes in multiple places, rather than one silver bullet.
If this could solve the Z4 problem, and wouldn't cost a lot, it could be a good option. But so it is indeed the still flawed steering from the M?
I may have a go myself, but if I don't have the time I'll pay someone a few hours labour to do it.
As per my previous points, this isn't some kind of silver bullet in isolation. But it seems to be a worthwhile upgrade alongside other chassis work.
C70R said:
Zero fabrication needed. It's just a case of swapping parts. Naturally it's a bit involved if your tool kit consists of two spanners and a pink hammer, but it's just a case of bolting and unbolting things.
I may have a go myself, but if I don't have the time I'll pay someone a few hours labour to do it.
Like the others, id love a shot of one to see if it's worth the cost/time, same as suspension mods. Unfortunately, the enthusiasts who have spent $$$ are few and far between.I may have a go myself, but if I don't have the time I'll pay someone a few hours labour to do it.
TameRacingDriver said:
Shifter1 said:
It does sound tempting. But to keep in mind is the same conundrum as when modifying any car. Is it really worth it, if by the end, with all the money you spent you could just bought a "better" car and not be bothered?
Only you can answer that. You have to really love the given car and think of it as a keeper of sorts. Not only because of the above, but because with most modified cars you never recover the money if you do sell it. One of the few exceptions are maybe BBR MX5s.
Still won't probably fully recover it. But Japanese car culture is way more open to mods. I'm not sure if Z4C buyers are more of the pristine original type, which they might as well be since the car is a bit rare.
But I totally understand wanting to solve a problem in car, which if it wasn't there, would make the car perfect for you. It's just the part of it really solving the problem, plus how much to pay for that "solution".
In the case of the Z4C, I have the same concerns about the suspension, steering, handling, which keeps me from buying one. But for me personally, I don't think I would be willing to spend money and time in mods. Unless I could sit in and drive one which had the mods to make sure it really solves it. To each his own. But unlike the BBR cars which are proven, have reviews and indeed improve the MX5 by many folds, this mods for the Z4 have probably only been done by a handful of people, who all undoubtedly will say it solves the problem and is well worth it. Plus the "problem" with the MX5 for most is much easier to solve. As it's only power.
But for me though. The BBR solves the power problem I have with the MX5, but still doesn't solve all problems I have with the car. This is why I don't have a MX5 either. See, to me a car is about about its engine. Specially a sports car or weekend car. And I just can't get excited about 4 pots. No matter how high they rev or any of that. S2000 doesn't do much for me for the same reasons. Sure, it's fun. But while driving I'm always wishing it had a better engine note, better character etc, in the same way I'm always wishing a car was RWD even if it's a good FWD car. So with these things you really need to decide for yourself.
But if you gentlemen go ahead and do these mods with the Z4C, would be great if you could get the car in the hands of a few YT reviewers out there to get the word out.
If you do solve the Z4C problems, you might start something.
To me, the Z4C is the closest to be there from the usual suspects. If you want a small, not too heavy 2-seater with more than a 4-pot, from the modern era. It's hard to do anything about the weight of a 350Z and that horrible uninspiring interior. 370Z adds overstyled bad taste to a not so much nicer place to be. Despite more power is barely any quicker, because of the extra weight. A SLK350 is a pig and not easy to throw around curves and the weight will always be there, even if you sort the suspension. An engine swap in a MX5 MC is also way more messing around and money. Plus in the end you end up with a Frankenstein car. Apart from this there is not much else. A Boxster or Cayman despite boring me, are totally different cars with the mid engine.
This just adds to the pity of BMW's decision of building a small 2-seater car which is a sports car in every way but the actual way. Which is my beef. So I wish you gentlemen doing the mods on the Z4C a lot of lucky and patience. And please do report back.
As a BBR owner this was an interesting read Only you can answer that. You have to really love the given car and think of it as a keeper of sorts. Not only because of the above, but because with most modified cars you never recover the money if you do sell it. One of the few exceptions are maybe BBR MX5s.
Still won't probably fully recover it. But Japanese car culture is way more open to mods. I'm not sure if Z4C buyers are more of the pristine original type, which they might as well be since the car is a bit rare.
But I totally understand wanting to solve a problem in car, which if it wasn't there, would make the car perfect for you. It's just the part of it really solving the problem, plus how much to pay for that "solution".
In the case of the Z4C, I have the same concerns about the suspension, steering, handling, which keeps me from buying one. But for me personally, I don't think I would be willing to spend money and time in mods. Unless I could sit in and drive one which had the mods to make sure it really solves it. To each his own. But unlike the BBR cars which are proven, have reviews and indeed improve the MX5 by many folds, this mods for the Z4 have probably only been done by a handful of people, who all undoubtedly will say it solves the problem and is well worth it. Plus the "problem" with the MX5 for most is much easier to solve. As it's only power.
But for me though. The BBR solves the power problem I have with the MX5, but still doesn't solve all problems I have with the car. This is why I don't have a MX5 either. See, to me a car is about about its engine. Specially a sports car or weekend car. And I just can't get excited about 4 pots. No matter how high they rev or any of that. S2000 doesn't do much for me for the same reasons. Sure, it's fun. But while driving I'm always wishing it had a better engine note, better character etc, in the same way I'm always wishing a car was RWD even if it's a good FWD car. So with these things you really need to decide for yourself.
But if you gentlemen go ahead and do these mods with the Z4C, would be great if you could get the car in the hands of a few YT reviewers out there to get the word out.
If you do solve the Z4C problems, you might start something.
To me, the Z4C is the closest to be there from the usual suspects. If you want a small, not too heavy 2-seater with more than a 4-pot, from the modern era. It's hard to do anything about the weight of a 350Z and that horrible uninspiring interior. 370Z adds overstyled bad taste to a not so much nicer place to be. Despite more power is barely any quicker, because of the extra weight. A SLK350 is a pig and not easy to throw around curves and the weight will always be there, even if you sort the suspension. An engine swap in a MX5 MC is also way more messing around and money. Plus in the end you end up with a Frankenstein car. Apart from this there is not much else. A Boxster or Cayman despite boring me, are totally different cars with the mid engine.
This just adds to the pity of BMW's decision of building a small 2-seater car which is a sports car in every way but the actual way. Which is my beef. So I wish you gentlemen doing the mods on the Z4C a lot of lucky and patience. And please do report back.
I tend to agree with all your points to be fair, and in fact the reasons you mention in this post are why I did go for the Boxster instead of further modifying my mx5 to try and solve the problems the BBR kit doesn't, because the Porsche basically does solve the problems without really having to do anything to it. If I'd tried modding my 5 then found I still didn't like the car as much as I hoped, I've just lost the money.
Same reasons I didn't go for the z4c in the end. I do like them but to make them drive as well as a Boxster your hand is going in your wallet again and it's not as though they're particularly cheap cars to buy to begin with. Perhaps modifying these might even reduce the value, double whammy. Maybe not though...
As for whether the BBR mods on the 5 have resale value remains to be seen but I'm about to find out. Hopefully not the hard way.
But I still feel mid engine cars are a different experience, so hard to be compared.
It seems you are selling your BBR though. So I wish you luck and hope you will recover some of your investment. Which one you have? BBR 225? For me, if I ever done it, would have to be one of the NA BBR kits.
If I could, I would just be keeping both, as the BBR will give different types of thrills.
Shifter1 said:
It does sound tempting. But to keep in mind is the same conundrum as when modifying any car. Is it really worth it, if by the end, with all the money you spent you could have just bought a "better" car and not be bothered?
Only you can answer that. You have to really love the given car and think of it as a keeper of sorts. Not only because of the above, but because with most modified cars you never recover the money if you do sell it. One of the few exceptions are maybe BBR MX5s.
Still won't probably fully recover it. But Japanese car culture is way more open to mods. I'm not sure if Z4C buyers are more of the pristine original type, which they might as well be since the car is a bit rare.
But I totally understand wanting to solve a problem in a car, which if it wasn't there, would make the car perfect for you. It's just the part of it really solving the problem, plus how much to pay for that "solution".
In the case of the Z4C, I have the same concerns about the suspension, steering, handling, which keeps me from buying one. But for me personally, I don't think I would be willing to spend money and time in mods. Unless I could sit in and drive one which had the mods to make sure it really solves it. To each his own. But unlike the BBR cars which are proven, have reviews and indeed improve the MX5 by many folds, these mods for the Z4 have probably only been done by a handful of people, who all undoubtedly will say it solves the problem and is well worth it. Plus the "problem" with the MX5 for most is much easier to solve. As it's only power.
But not for me though. The BBR solves the power problem I have with the MX5, but still doesn't solve all problems I have with the car. This is why I don't have a MX5 either. See, to me a car is about its engine. Specially a sports car or weekend car. And I just can't get excited about 4 pots. No matter how high they rev or any of that. S2000 doesn't do much for me for the same reasons. Sure, it's fun. But while driving I'm always wishing it had a better engine note, better character etc, in the same way I'm always wishing a car was RWD even if it's a good FWD car. So with these things you really need to decide for yourself.
But if you gentlemen go ahead and do these mods with the Z4C, would be great if you could get the car in the hands of a few YT reviewers out there to get the word out.
If you do solve the Z4C problems, you might start something.
To me, the Z4C is the closest to be there from the usual suspects. If you want a small, not too heavy 2-seater sports car with more than a 4-pot, from the modern era. It's hard to do anything about the weight of a 350Z and that horrible uninspiring interior. 370Z adds external overstyled bad taste to a not so much nicer place to be. Despite more power is barely any quicker, because of the extra weight over the Z4C. A SLK350 is a pig and not easy to throw around curves and the weight will always be there, even if you sort the suspension. An engine swap in a MX5 MC is also way more messing around and money. Plus in the end you end up with a Frankenstein car. Apart from this there is not much else. A Boxster or Cayman despite boring me, are totally different cars with the mid engine.
This just adds to the pity of BMW's decision of building a small 2-seater car which is a sports car in every way but the actual way. Which is my beef. So I wish you gentlemen doing the mods to a Z4C a lot of luck and patience. And please do report back.
The challenge you have is that most Z4C buyers, like the OP, don't consider it a big enough problem. So the pool of people motivated to fix it, like me, is relatively small.Only you can answer that. You have to really love the given car and think of it as a keeper of sorts. Not only because of the above, but because with most modified cars you never recover the money if you do sell it. One of the few exceptions are maybe BBR MX5s.
Still won't probably fully recover it. But Japanese car culture is way more open to mods. I'm not sure if Z4C buyers are more of the pristine original type, which they might as well be since the car is a bit rare.
But I totally understand wanting to solve a problem in a car, which if it wasn't there, would make the car perfect for you. It's just the part of it really solving the problem, plus how much to pay for that "solution".
In the case of the Z4C, I have the same concerns about the suspension, steering, handling, which keeps me from buying one. But for me personally, I don't think I would be willing to spend money and time in mods. Unless I could sit in and drive one which had the mods to make sure it really solves it. To each his own. But unlike the BBR cars which are proven, have reviews and indeed improve the MX5 by many folds, these mods for the Z4 have probably only been done by a handful of people, who all undoubtedly will say it solves the problem and is well worth it. Plus the "problem" with the MX5 for most is much easier to solve. As it's only power.
But not for me though. The BBR solves the power problem I have with the MX5, but still doesn't solve all problems I have with the car. This is why I don't have a MX5 either. See, to me a car is about its engine. Specially a sports car or weekend car. And I just can't get excited about 4 pots. No matter how high they rev or any of that. S2000 doesn't do much for me for the same reasons. Sure, it's fun. But while driving I'm always wishing it had a better engine note, better character etc, in the same way I'm always wishing a car was RWD even if it's a good FWD car. So with these things you really need to decide for yourself.
But if you gentlemen go ahead and do these mods with the Z4C, would be great if you could get the car in the hands of a few YT reviewers out there to get the word out.
If you do solve the Z4C problems, you might start something.
To me, the Z4C is the closest to be there from the usual suspects. If you want a small, not too heavy 2-seater sports car with more than a 4-pot, from the modern era. It's hard to do anything about the weight of a 350Z and that horrible uninspiring interior. 370Z adds external overstyled bad taste to a not so much nicer place to be. Despite more power is barely any quicker, because of the extra weight over the Z4C. A SLK350 is a pig and not easy to throw around curves and the weight will always be there, even if you sort the suspension. An engine swap in a MX5 MC is also way more messing around and money. Plus in the end you end up with a Frankenstein car. Apart from this there is not much else. A Boxster or Cayman despite boring me, are totally different cars with the mid engine.
This just adds to the pity of BMW's decision of building a small 2-seater car which is a sports car in every way but the actual way. Which is my beef. So I wish you gentlemen doing the mods to a Z4C a lot of luck and patience. And please do report back.
Edited by Shifter1 on Monday 27th March 10:00
Those that want cars that deliver beyond 7/10ths typically buy Boxsters/Caymans or S2000s.
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