350Z/370Z, Z4C, Z4 35i, 135i/335i, XKR/XFR, Monaro, or...?

350Z/370Z, Z4C, Z4 35i, 135i/335i, XKR/XFR, Monaro, or...?

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Discussion

RoVoFob

1,354 posts

161 months

Sunday 5th February 2023
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TameRacingDriver said:
Mr Tidy said:
Quite a variety of options there.

You seem to be getting drawn towards a V8 though. Personally I'd go for a Monaro because you can get them with a manual gearbox! And I'd hope a Chevy V8 would be pretty bullet-proof.

But if you don't mind an Auto I can see the appeal of an XKR or something AMG.
The very tall gearing slightly puts me off the Monaro, but I can see your point. Ultimately though I think I could tolerate an auto with some flappy paddles in exchange for a nice grunty V8!
Here’s one of my comments from another thread, as it may be useful here and gives you another V8 manual coupe option:

How about a V8 Audi S5?

They’re surprisingly cheap, you can get a manual, they have a beefy V8, still look pretty good - to me, at least - and have usable rear seats and boot. Not the sportiest of cars, but it’s lighter than the V8 M3 and should be pretty engaging.

Scope for you to get lots of change from your budget, too:
£7,790: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301303...

£9,450: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275510077093?hash=item4...

Auto Express group test against E92 M3 and Cayman: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/13952/ne...

FNG

4,212 posts

227 months

Monday 6th February 2023
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TameRacingDriver said:
Mr Tidy said:
Quite a variety of options there.

You seem to be getting drawn towards a V8 though. Personally I'd go for a Monaro because you can get them with a manual gearbox! And I'd hope a Chevy V8 would be pretty bullet-proof.

But if you don't mind an Auto I can see the appeal of an XKR or something AMG.
The very tall gearing slightly puts me off the Monaro, but I can see your point. Ultimately though I think I could tolerate an auto with some flappy paddles in exchange for a nice grunty V8!
I've had an early Monaro for 6 months now so can probably help here.

The gearing is long but it still goes very well on the standard engine which has c.340bhp. They can rev well over 6k and with a decent exhaust they just make you laugh out loud. Up to 50mph you'd cruise in 5th but also that fuel economy isn't too awful on the motorway, if that's a factor. You can get a lower final drive for around 300 quid plus fitting if you want to chase faster acceleration, but most people seem to prefer to spend their money on power increases.

Mine has tubular manifolds which apparently releases a bit more power and a fair increase in torque, but really you need a remap for a fair bit more power at little cost. Apparently the entry cars were really held back with their calibration and a remap (and manifolds) can get you to around the 400bhp mark which is excellent for the cost of a remap.

There's a yellow Monaro in Readers Cars at the moment with loads of comment on upgrade cams, and folks getting 500bhp with tubular manifolds, an upgrade cam and followers, an over-rad air intake and a remap. Probably 2 grand of parts. The engine can easily take that without opening it up (cam swap is done from the front with just the radiator and cam covers removed).

If the car hasn't got a quick shifter you'll find the standard gearbox has a long slow-change action, so it's the best mod you can do. Ripshifter is the go-to but they're now expensive for what they are; B&M do one for a bit less; there's now ebay specials for under a hundred quid that also likely do a perfectly good job as the engineering in the shifter is hardly complex. But if you do nothing else, do that.

The standard brakes aren't very good at all. VXR brakes are better but not great. The bolt on upgrade is AP discs and calipers, and they're apparently 3 grand (so if you can find one with them fitted, it's a major plus). Some folks have managed to upgrade using Range Rover discs and AP calipers, bit heavier but cheaper.

And look out for rust underneath.

You'll get the idea that almost all of them aren't standard cars. There's lots of improvement potential on top of what's already a good fun V8 coupe.

Finally I got a total bargain, but it does need paintwork and re-undersealing. I replaced the starter motor recently (240 quid). Service of all fluids (the diff especially needs regular fluid changes, they're a bit of a weak point if left untouched). I'll easily be at 10 grand by the time these things are done, albeit I'll have a nice specced car with <60k on it. But not remapped etc. By the time I have done everything on the wish list I'll be easily 16 grand in to it. Or twice what I paid.

TL;DR: I think you'll be lucky to get a nice one all sorted and shipshape for 10k and you do enter the modification vortex.

Edited by FNG on Monday 6th February 08:58

coldel

8,189 posts

149 months

Monday 6th February 2023
quotequote all
RoVoFob said:
Here’s one of my comments from another thread, as it may be useful here and gives you another V8 manual coupe option:

How about a V8 Audi S5?

They’re surprisingly cheap, you can get a manual, they have a beefy V8, still look pretty good - to me, at least - and have usable rear seats and boot. Not the sportiest of cars, but it’s lighter than the V8 M3 and should be pretty engaging.

Scope for you to get lots of change from your budget, too:
£7,790: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301303...

£9,450: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275510077093?hash=item4...

Auto Express group test against E92 M3 and Cayman: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/13952/ne...
I have to say Audi S5s are a good shout. What about a nicely specced A5 the next model up? Doesn't attract the S money but still pretty damn quick

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,187 posts

275 months

Monday 6th February 2023
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I'd always associated Audi's with 2 things - understeer and expensive running costs.

Is the S5 a better proposition in that respect?

coldel

8,189 posts

149 months

Monday 6th February 2023
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Ive actually read a few reviews this morning, usually a 4/5 car but not sure on costs to run. As a V8 though and apparently the B8 S5 chassis is a good one (needs a manual box though)

Krikkit

26,746 posts

184 months

Monday 6th February 2023
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My Mrs has an X150 4.2 XK8 and it's a fantastic car - with the electronic dampers it's really a car of two halves, in "normal" auto it mooches along quite nicely with the rumbly V8, slurred slushbox etc.

Move it into sport mode and it's much more exciting - the dampers firm up the ride, touch a paddle and it's in full manual mode with the ZF 6HP doing a decent job, the noise is great (the XKR will be even better).

We've had a couple of the common issues with it - thermostat and AC pipes, but neither were hard to sort. Parts are plentiful (a lot of the common running gear like brakes are shared with the XF) and it's an easy car to work on.

Absolutely recommend it.

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,187 posts

275 months

Monday 6th February 2023
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
My Mrs has an X150 4.2 XK8 and it's a fantastic car - with the electronic dampers it's really a car of two halves, in "normal" auto it mooches along quite nicely with the rumbly V8, slurred slushbox etc.

Move it into sport mode and it's much more exciting - the dampers firm up the ride, touch a paddle and it's in full manual mode with the ZF 6HP doing a decent job, the noise is great (the XKR will be even better).

We've had a couple of the common issues with it - thermostat and AC pipes, but neither were hard to sort. Parts are plentiful (a lot of the common running gear like brakes are shared with the XF) and it's an easy car to work on.

Absolutely recommend it.
I'm feeling a lot of want for these Jags at the minute for sure. smile

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

193 months

Monday 6th February 2023
quotequote all
Out of your list, the Jag certainly has the most 'supercar' visuals. Even today they look like a premium vehicle.

I've not had a go in a x150, I'm lead to believe they are a bit more GT than sports car. Despite the aluminium construction they weigh quite a bit more than my Camaro.

But I'd say they are going to have the best sense of occasion too. Nice interior and great to be in at all times. But with enough entertainment should you want to throw it round some bends.

Rear seats look tiny though.


Personally don't see the appeal of the 135/355 in this context. They don't have the wow factor or visuals. Good cars if you need more practicality though.

The 370z/Z4 should be fun at all times, but you've already been there done it sort of thing. Maybe time to try something else?

Not mention for the Monaro, but they are more niche in the UK, as in there aren't many.

Big heavy car, although probably not that different to the Jag, despite looking like they should be bigger. Quite an event, but much more of a muscle car. But it is the only one that will give you an OHV V8 soundtrack.

If you are happy with more cruising and GT style, I'd be going Jag too out of your list. Although I'd also say you could probably include some Mustangs and Corvettes too depending on your exact budget.

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,187 posts

275 months

Monday 6th February 2023
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Out of your list, the Jag certainly has the most 'supercar' visuals. Even today they look like a premium vehicle.

I've not had a go in a x150, I'm lead to believe they are a bit more GT than sports car. Despite the aluminium construction they weigh quite a bit more than my Camaro.

But I'd say they are going to have the best sense of occasion too. Nice interior and great to be in at all times. But with enough entertainment should you want to throw it round some bends.

Rear seats look tiny though.


Personally don't see the appeal of the 135/355 in this context. They don't have the wow factor or visuals. Good cars if you need more practicality though.

The 370z/Z4 should be fun at all times, but you've already been there done it sort of thing. Maybe time to try something else?

Not mention for the Monaro, but they are more niche in the UK, as in there aren't many.

Big heavy car, although probably not that different to the Jag, despite looking like they should be bigger. Quite an event, but much more of a muscle car. But it is the only one that will give you an OHV V8 soundtrack.

If you are happy with more cruising and GT style, I'd be going Jag too out of your list. Although I'd also say you could probably include some Mustangs and Corvettes too depending on your exact budget.
Thanks mate. I would agree the Jag is far more special / exotic looking than the other choices, with the 370Z and Z4 Coupe taking the the following spots. The rear seats won't really matter for me as I don't need to carry passengers. Nice to have, I guess, but clearly not a deal breaker.

I feel like the 135/335 would just be too dull and I'm not sold on the reliability of these.

As you say, with the Z cars, I've been there and done that with all of them. The 370Z is still a strong contender in my book, but I just don't think it would match the Jag for being a sense of occasion, nor do I believe the V6 can match the V8 for grins.

The Monaro is a curious car, but I have to say I'm still not a fan of the looks or that classically 'VX' interior, and £10k is the minimum price of entry for one of those things, and I think a decent one would be above budget really.

I think I am more happy with the GT / cruising driving style these days. I've been buying little thrash boxes for most of the last 25 years, and I'm ready for a change.

It's probably a silly point, but the thing keeping me away from Mustangs and Corvettes is the LHD element and a RHD Mustang 5.0 is way beyond my budget, which realistically is £10k but I could push that a little if that car was genuinely worth stretching to.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

193 months

Monday 6th February 2023
quotequote all
LHD can be a blocker I agree. Think it comes down to where you drive too, it works better in some places than it does in others.

Sounds like it is going to be a Jaguar day then! biggrin

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,187 posts

275 months

Monday 6th February 2023
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
LHD can be a blocker I agree. Think it comes down to where you drive too, it works better in some places than it does in others.

Sounds like it is going to be a Jaguar day then! biggrin
Looks like it. Just got to tidy the MX5 up and get it sold so I can start looking properly! biggrin

Mr Tidy

23,109 posts

130 months

Monday 6th February 2023
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In that case good luck getting your Mazda sold! Then you can enjoy finding an XK8. thumbup

I think they look fantastic - definitely on my radar for when I get too old for manual gearboxes!

coldel

8,189 posts

149 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
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Which Jag are we talking about? The older 2001 ish ones I think look terribly dated. Not sure why they switched shape (was it around 2006?) these I agree look better. Still think the Z4C looks a better super car but obviously doesnt have a sweet V8!

Looking at your list, if you have had a 350z and Z4C then dont go back there. I never buy the same car twice I love to experience cars.

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,187 posts

275 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
quotequote all
coldel said:
Which Jag are we talking about? The older 2001 ish ones I think look terribly dated. Not sure why they switched shape (was it around 2006?) these I agree look better. Still think the Z4C looks a better super car but obviously doesnt have a sweet V8!

Looking at your list, if you have had a 350z and Z4C then dont go back there. I never buy the same car twice I love to experience cars.
Yep coldel, it's the x150 shape Jag, rather than the old looking one.

I guess I was willing to revisit the 350/70z because previously I had a roadster so would go for the coupe. For the z4c I had an auto so would go for the manual.

Must admit though I do still find the z4c very attractive, a thought rammed home again seeing the one Deep thought had just sold in silver with CSLs. It's a seriously lovely looking car.

I've got a couple of months to make up my mind. I prefer to do this now as my mind can often change from one day to the next, but eventually a pattern emerges which helps me decide. This happened with the Boxster but that didn't last long. I may have still had that car if it wasn't for what happened.

I do know what you're saying about not having the same car twice, though but my time with all of my 6 cylinder sports cars were cut prematurely short, I never seen to own any for more than a year before something has to give.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

193 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
quotequote all
coldel said:
Which Jag are we talking about? The older 2001 ish ones I think look terribly dated. Not sure why they switched shape (was it around 2006?) these I agree look better. Still think the Z4C looks a better super car but obviously doesnt have a sweet V8!

Looking at your list, if you have had a 350z and Z4C then dont go back there. I never buy the same car twice I love to experience cars.
I believe TRD is looking at what is known as the x150. This was an all new car using a bonded and riveted all aluminium structure. Partly based on the x350 saloon which uses the same technique. The F-Type was then developed from these.

The have a bit more of a blunt nose than the XK8. But still a very pretty and elegant looking car IMO.

Although I must confess I do adore the styling of the original X100 XK’s. More sleek and a lower profile nose. But the x100 while using the same basic engines has a floor pan based on the XJS. The same as you’d find under an Aston DB7. Good cars still, but quite a different feel.

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,187 posts

275 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
I believe TRD is looking at what is known as the x150. This was an all new car using a bonded and riveted all aluminium structure. Partly based on the x350 saloon which uses the same technique. The F-Type was then developed from these.

The have a bit more of a blunt nose than the XK8. But still a very pretty and elegant looking car IMO.

Although I must confess I do adore the styling of the original X100 XK’s. More sleek and a lower profile nose. But the x100 while using the same basic engines has a floor pan based on the XJS. The same as you’d find under an Aston DB7. Good cars still, but quite a different feel.
yes I think the x100 is just a bit too long in the tooth for me.. Another noteworthy improvement for the x150 is the aluminium body, which weighs less and is less vulnerable to the dreaded tin worm. Pre 99 models also have potential nikasil issues.

coldel

8,189 posts

149 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
quotequote all
TameRacingDriver said:
Yep coldel, it's the x150 shape Jag, rather than the old looking one.

I guess I was willing to revisit the 350/70z because previously I had a roadster so would go for the coupe. For the z4c I had an auto so would go for the manual.

Must admit though I do still find the z4c very attractive, a thought rammed home again seeing the one Deep thought had just sold in silver with CSLs. It's a seriously lovely looking car.

I've got a couple of months to make up my mind. I prefer to do this now as my mind can often change from one day to the next, but eventually a pattern emerges which helps me decide. This happened with the Boxster but that didn't last long. I may have still had that car if it wasn't for what happened.

I do know what you're saying about not having the same car twice, though but my time with all of my 6 cylinder sports cars were cut prematurely short, I never seen to own any for more than a year before something has to give.
Ah got ya. Yes the manual Z4C would be a different experience. Not sure where you are located but if you are near Twickenham any time soon you are welcome to take a look over mine and go for a drive

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,187 posts

275 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
quotequote all
coldel said:
Ah got ya. Yes the manual Z4C would be a different experience. Not sure where you are located but if you are near Twickenham any time soon you are welcome to take a look over mine and go for a drive
Thanks for the offer but I'm up in the North East.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

193 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
quotequote all
TameRacingDriver said:
yes I think the x100 is just a bit too long in the tooth for me.. Another noteworthy improvement for the x150 is the aluminium body, which weighs less and is less vulnerable to the dreaded tin worm. Pre 99 models also have potential nikasil issues.
Very different vehicles I reckon.

In a way I think Jaguar did themselves a dis-justice not calling the x150 something else. Lots of people don't realise just how different it is from the previous model.

I watched an Autocar video the other day with Steve Sutcliffe harping on how bad the x150 because you could trace its chassis back to the XJS and because of this it felt old to drive rolleyes

Despite the fact only a few years earlier he had an x150 as a long termer where he praised the ride and handling. Goes to show even the top motoring bods don't alway know the facts on what they are reviewing though.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 7th February 11:43


Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 7th February 11:46

Krikkit

26,746 posts

184 months

Tuesday 7th February 2023
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
I watched an Autocar video the other with Steve Sutcliffe harping on how bad the x150 because you could trace its chassis back to the XJS and because of this it felt old to drive rolleyes
That's a special level of talking out of his arse!

I think they hit upon a nice compromise for a GT (which the XK absolutely is) - it's not a car to exploit at 10/10ths, but drives really well at more sensible levels.

And as noted, nothing on the car is really like the previous generation (except perhaps the engine I suppose, that was a carry-over from the late ones). Double wishbone front and multi-link rear, XKR should also have an LSD, so as expected a decent setup.