EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)

[Richard-D]

braddo said:

Richard-D said:

It does make a nonsense of the 'everyone needs to do their bit' argument though. Refusing to do the one thing that would make a huge difference whilst claiming that buying a new shiny car and being righteous about it is a significant contribution.

It doesn't make a nonsense of it at all if a person has reduced their carbon footprint. They might take a couple of flights per year and still have a lower footprint than yours?

I agree, it absolutely reduces it a bit. The issue I have with it though is the ignoring of the much more significant reduction that could easily made whilst acting like the environment was actually the motivation. People can buy whatever they like. They can also make claims about being environmentally conscious when they clearly aren't. They aren't immune from criticism when it's so obviously bullst however.

[TheRainMaker]

plfrench said:

They display their max pricing on their website too:

It's still twice the price of the Tesla chargers, though.

It says on the website they charge a flat rate of 75p, so no maximum as such, that is the cost.

For the polestar we have at the moment, that would cost £56.00 to charge from flat, in this weather the car is reporting 44 kWh/100 miles which is around 2.27 miles per kWh.

Which works out at around 19 mpg

If I use our i3s, which is telling me 3.3 miles per kWh

The cost to charge from empty would be £28.42, which works out at around 26 mpg.

I can't see them being that popular.

[Fastdruid]

TheRainMaker said:

plfrench said:

They display their max pricing on their website too:

It's still twice the price of the Tesla chargers, though.

It says on the website they charge a flat rate of 75p, so no maximum as such, that is the cost.

For the polestar we have at the moment, that would cost £56.00 to charge from flat, in this weather the car is reporting 44 kWh/100 miles which is around 2.27 miles per kWh.

Which works out at around 19 mpg

If I use our i3s, which is telling me 3.3 miles per kWh

The cost to charge from empty would be £28.42, which works out at around 26 mpg.

I can't see them being that popular.

That's not including charging losses either!

Assuming 15% loss that £28.42 for the i3 becomes £33.44 so roughly 22.6mpg (at the current £1.329 for petrol I paid earlier in the week).
The Polestar becomes about 15.5mpg equivalent.

[plfrench]

Fastdruid said:

That's not including charging losses either!

Assuming 15% loss that £28.42 for the i3 becomes £33.44 so roughly 22.6mpg (at the current £1.329 for petrol I paid earlier in the week).
The Polestar becomes about 15.5mpg equivalent.

It’s ok, they’re throwing in 1 Nectar Point per £1 spent charging!!

[M4cruiser]

greenarrow said:

Trevor555 said:

My first contribution to this topic, and I'm sure it's been pointed out already.

Paid £62 for a fast charge to get me just another 200 miles delivering a car to Scotland.

Hasn't exactly encouraged me to rush out and buy one.

That is terrible and a reason why I am not rushing out either. As the last poster said, horses for courses. My driving pattern is fairly unusual I would say. Three weeks a month by car generally sits on the drive most days or days shortish trips, max 10 miles each way. Once a month its a 520 mile round trip to the office, often diverting to Manchester from the Liverpool city centre office to visit my daughter, who lives on a busy road with no drive and no evidence of any chargers nearby. I would almost certainly have to use a motorway charger at least once, or if not, one of the local ones in a city, charging a fairly premium rate. My wife pointed out that if I had an EV I would have to factor in charging and find a cheaper alternative, but here's the rub, in my existing 10 year old diesel I don't have to. I just do the whole trip on one tank of fuel. So, seeing as the car is giving good service and has been reliable, I will stick with it for now as for me it does the job. BUT, I would love an EV as a second car for the local trips, I won't lie. They seem perfect for the urban trips where you want instant pick up and not to be polluting from the tailpipe in built up areas....

There are two separate issues here:
(1) Long trips away from home, such as Scotland holidays for me, or similar for you, will cost more than in the old petrol auto. The occasional rapid top-up on a long business day is different, because I can mentally "average" the 79p-p-kWh for 9kWh with the 23p-p-kWh I paid for 30kWh when I filled it up at home.
(2) I didn't rush out and buy an EV until my previous ICE car wouldn't go any more. So if your 10-year-old diesel is still working then stick with it.

[G-wiz]

As a 20 year current owner of an Italienne mid-engined V8 high revving exotica, £200 per month on an EV Astra estate does sound tempting.

Vauxhall dealer is walking distance too.

[Johnson897210]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs...

Expect a lot more similar stories. Damn Telegraph anti EV bias shocking…

[Mammasaid]

Johnson897210 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs...

Expect a lot more similar stories. Damn Telegraph anti EV bias shocking…

That article doesn't say what you thinks it says.....

Suggest you read it before getting your Johnson out in indignation.

[Glosphil]

It seems to me that most of the people posting how marvelous is their EV also have an ICE car in the household.

In 2020 (the latest year for which I can found data), in the United Kingdom, 45% of households had only one car. What proportion of these households have bought an EV?

[nickfrog]

Johnson897210 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs...

Expect a lot more similar stories. Damn Telegraph anti EV bias shocking…

The problem is that you can't even see that the Telegraph are fundamentally preying on your low EQ to validate your own bias. They're are a commercial operation who have decided to pick the low hanging fruits of society.
You need to move on with this unless this is your only coping mechanism?

[braddo]

Mammasaid said:

Johnson897210 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs...

Expect a lot more similar stories. Damn Telegraph anti EV bias shocking…

That article doesn't say what you thinks it says.....

Suggest you read it before getting your Johnson out in indignation.

An important question - is the The Big Lebowski the only source for that term or do people know of other ones?

I was tempted to reference it too for this esteemed poster

[braddo]

Richard-D said:

I agree, it absolutely reduces it a bit. The issue I have with it though is the ignoring of the much more significant reduction that could easily made whilst acting like the environment was actually the motivation. People can buy whatever they like. They can also make claims about being environmentally conscious when they clearly aren't. They aren't immune from criticism when it's so obviously bullst however.

So what have you done to reduce your carbon footprint? Surely you must have done quite a bit to be so indignant of others.

[DonkeyApple]

Johnson897210 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs...

Expect a lot more similar stories. Damn Telegraph anti EV bias shocking…

Doesn't make sense.

The bloke in the article is very clearly an idiot. He admits that he didn't do any research and then comes out with this gem:

'He was astonished to find that in just two and a half years, the value of the car had plummeted to less than £9,000. It is why he recommends motorists only ever lease rather than buy an EV.'

So he also shows that he has absolutely no concept of basic finance.

He is your typical entitled fool who is normally seen proffering their compo face having purchased some unregulated investment or having spent 20 years not paying down an IO mortgage.

These people are easy to find for the tabloids. They are legion. But they are idiots. They buy stuff they can't afford and without ever giving it any thought. These are the people who can be talked into buying anything

But these are also the people not being asked to buy or use an EV.

So here we have a bloke who even admits it is his fault and that he has had to hand over the car to his wife who appears to understand how it works. You seem to be thinking he's lying? What is it exactly that you are trying to say that he is saying? The chap just isn't very bright.

And then the other person in the article, the lady who appears to have the same car but comes across as having a brain who states that the car works for her and like every other intelligent person is advising others that you do need to think about how it is different from ICE.

This is basically an article warning not very bright people to stay well away from EVs for the foreseeable future. The problem is that those very people aren't going to receive that message.

What fascinates me is how these tabloids always manage to find these absolute idiots? Whether it is unregulated investments, penny shares, IO mortgages and now EVs there is a seemingly endless supply of middle income muppets getting spanked not just by grifters but by themselves.

It's why the government ought to produce a clear list of the type of people who shouldn't be going near EVs for at least the next decade. A list of classic characteristics that these people can identify with and know instantly that EVs aren't for them yet.

[M4cruiser]

Yes, depreciation is a thing. Many cars go down to half in 3 years, whatever type of engine they have.
The guy in that Telegraph article reminds me of someone, but I just can't think who .... is it a boxer?

[DonkeyApple]

M4cruiser said:

Yes, depreciation is a thing. Many cars go down to half in 3 years, whatever type of engine they have.
The guy in that Telegraph article reminds me of someone, but I just can't think who .... is it a boxer?

He's your classic GenX compo faced mug. Now mortgage rates are going back up they'll be wheeling out the interest only idiots who want their abject stupidity to all be someone else's fault.

The whole obsession with depreciation is a sickness borne from decades of princesses over shopping with money they didn't have. Now that interest rates are returned they're being reminded that don't have the wealth that they deluded themselves for years they had and to avoid reality they have toddler tantrums.

Buy what you can afford not what the chap in the nylon suit will lend you to get something fancier.

These people are so financially incompetent they can't even calculate depreciation and keep using RRPs at the front end and then all too often trade in offers at the other.

They also appear to be people who in one breath are complaining that new car prices are too high but then wanting used car prices to be higher than they are because they don't want depreciation.

And society is being held to ransom by these shopping princesses and their tantrums.

Don't buy what you can't afford. And 'afford' isn't the same as what the salesman will lend you. That's his figure and it's based on how likely you are to default within the very short three year window. The consumer's measure of affordability has absolutely nothing to do with that number.

And for the love of god, actually engage brain before buying something expensive. Just spend 5 minutes actually considering whether this object will work for you.

[romft123]

schedoni said:

Glosphil said:

It seems to me that most of the people posting how marvelous is their EV also have an ICE car in the household.

In 2020 (the latest year for which I can found data), in the United Kingdom, 45% of households had only one car. What proportion of these households have bought an EV?

So they know what they are talking about when they say they prefer the EV for the vast bulk of their driving, keeping the supercar for weekends?

Anyone else hear that Hollywood sound of an airplane diving into the sea........el glosphil

[DonkeyApple]

M4cruiser said:

Yes, depreciation is a thing. Many cars go down to half in 3 years, whatever type of engine they have.
The guy in that Telegraph article reminds me of someone, but I just can't think who .... is it a boxer?

A boxer has an excuse. These compo punters don't. They jus live their life convinced that everything that goes wrong is the fault of other people and they get more and more angry as they get older as they refuse to face the reality as to why their peer are having a good life and they aren't.

What you see with the GenX compo fools is a window into how those angry pensioners create themselves. It's a very depressing window.

However, in fairness to this particular chap the article does read very much as if the journalist has twisted the picture somewhat.

The author is attempting to imply a particular view when in reality what the chap is actually saying is that his first EV was crap for what he needed to use it for. He is to blame for not spending more time researching whether this expensive item will do what he needed it to do and after three years he was free to chop it in against another EV that does what he needs.

In fairness the chap is being made out to be a cast iron compo mug by the journalist but you can see that he isn't really.

[DT1975]

He's can't be that anti EV as he's now leasing a VW Buzz which kind of weakens the headline.

Most of the stuff he's mentioned in relation to the Leaf have been discussed on various forums so perhaps it was just the wrong car for him. That said commuting 50 miles each way should be doable but he then concedes its fine for pottering about. Without doubt its the depreciation that's upset him (irrefutable fact with the Nissan Leaf).

I really don't get their agenda (actively looking for people regretting buying EV's) but it's emanating through to many other forums I use.

Edited by DT1975 on Saturday 30th November 10:30

[Glosphil]

romft123 said:

schedoni said:

Glosphil said:

It seems to me that most of the people posting how marvelous is their EV also have an ICE car in the household.

In 2020 (the latest year for which I can found data), in the United Kingdom, 45% of households had only one car. What proportion of these households have bought an EV?

So they know what they are talking about when they say they prefer the EV for the vast bulk of their driving, keeping the supercar for weekends?

Anyone else hear that Hollywood sound of an airplane diving into the sea........el glosphil

I don't understand the relevence of the last comment.

I know one (soon to be) one car household with an EV, but hardly typical. One has a top of the range Audi Q4 as their company car, both work from home, although the Q4 driver goes to the office 1 or 2 days a week.

House has tight parking for 2 cars with one blocking in the other & on a street that has double yellow lines, so no parking for visitors if they have 2 cars. They can easily manage with one car. Longest return journey is 210 with free charging at destination; easily managed by the Q4. Also charger at home. Not a typical one car household.

[DonkeyApple]

DT1975 said:

I really don't get their agenda (actively looking for people regretting buying EV's) but it's emanating through to many other forums I use.

Edited by DT1975 on Saturday 30th November 10:30

They are fed what to think and say. It's how PR, propaganda and lobbying works.

There is a significant section of any society which is susceptible to having 'information' downloaded into them where the purpose is for them to then broadcast this 'information' without thinking about it.

It's why you see on PH the anti EV stuff come in clear waves. These people are fed a single 'issue' which they then broadcast for that entity.

Take the whole 'cobalt & African child exploitation'. That whole thing appeared md then disappeared. The people who had the message downloaded into them don't actually care about the African children so they stop broadcasting that message when the next one is fed into them, for example 'tyre dust'. They won't question any particle science but simple spend the next couple of weeks broadcasting a message for others. You then get 'China bad' but the source of that one is pretty easy to establish as European car makers have such a vested interest in maintaining excessively high prices and forcing their consumers to pay them.

PH is amazing because you literally see it in action. The drone army gets its fresh download of what one one else wants them to say and within moments they are out on social media saying it. It even drives a raft of new accounts. They're all saying the same thing at the same time and will all stop when they get their next download.