EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)

[DonkeyApple]

Olivergt said:

And that video has been called out for just being click bait, it's not in any way real world scenarios.

Did you actually watch the video?

Arguably what is worse is that Mr and Mrs Burton purchased an extremely good education for Timothy on top of Timothy being quite a smart chap. This means that he is fully aware that he has chosen the wrong set of numbers and that we are in 2024 at almost the opposite side of a rate cycle to 2021 and that QT has been running for several years now and all the free Covid cash has finished moving from the millions of dim people into the hands of the savvy few.

Timothy is fully sentient as to his actions and structured objectives. Unlike the Mac Master who is essentially a muppet just along for the ride or Geoff who one suspects would be feeling hate for something else if it weren't libtard transport of the lizard people.

[ChocolateFrog]

plfrench said:

DonkeyApple said:

Mammasaid said:

What a lovely EV bingo this will make.

1. Youtube title for clickbait
2. Schmeeeeeee
3.Taycan

Those 2020 cars are trading around £1000 to £1200/month currently.

How much a month were they back in 2020?

I remember an entry level Taycan on SS was £7xx on 3yr 14k miles net (40% tax) in late ‘21 if that helps?

More like double that now. Wouldn't surprise me if they start selling more 911' than Taycans when the good ones are £2000pm.

[Sheepshanks]

ChocolateFrog said:

What amuses me is people paying £80-100 to do at best 800 miles instead of £20 to do the same distance.

Still while it amuses me I doff my cap for them chucking 70% of their post tax hard earned directly into the government coffers while I put in 5% of my much smaller amount.

It's extremely public spirited of you and I do appreciate it, please don't stop.

If that was monthly your first 18mths savings are almost wiped out by the cost of a charger!

OK, supposedly service and maint is cheaper, but I’m finding insurance quotes are 2x ICE, and I’m un-nerved that most EVs seem to be on what I consider to be bonkers wheel sizes, so replacing worn tyres ( some EVs seem to eat tyres) and cracked alloys ain’t going to be funny.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Tuesday 22 October 08:07

[Wills2]

Mammasaid said:

peterfield781 said:

Interesting round up...

What a lovely EV bingo this will make.

1. Youtube title for clickbait
2. Schmeeeeeee
3.Taycan

Interestingly he fails to mention he'll have taken a bigger bath on each of his Ferraris than on the Taycan, the losses on his SF90 will equal the full list price of the Taycan as an example.

[DonkeyApple]

ChocolateFrog said:

plfrench said:

DonkeyApple said:

Mammasaid said:

What a lovely EV bingo this will make.

1. Youtube title for clickbait
2. Schmeeeeeee
3.Taycan

Those 2020 cars are trading around £1000 to £1200/month currently.

How much a month were they back in 2020?

I remember an entry level Taycan on SS was £7xx on 3yr 14k miles net (40% tax) in late ‘21 if that helps?

More like double that now. Wouldn't surprise me if they start selling more 911' than Taycans when the good ones are £2000pm.

They already do.

Porsche is an SUV business at its core these days but their best selling non SUV is the 911, mostly in 'lady shave' spec. After that it's the Panny, then Taycan before you get to the relatively unloved Fischer Price 'my first sports car' models.

The Taycan was just such a massive post Covid must have object for the apex consumer and they were awash with Covid cash, rates were still on the floor and VW was very keen to underwrite more risk to get them out the door as their flagship EV. The problem you have with super trendy objects is that the super trendy shoppers only ever have two emotions, craving and repulsion.

The Taycan now it's become too expensive as well as old news is now revolting to those who just 18 months ago were craving just to be possibly on the same street as one of these objects. It was the automotive gold Rolex and now it's so Casio that it's making people vomit.

These are great cars and lovely places to sit. Once they have finished their formal transition to Casio these are going to be such tempting every day bargain wagons just in need of a good wipe down with a strong bleach.

Not quite sure why VW are electrifying the Boxster and I'm not wholly convinced that will be a big success. It might have an initial urban consumer flurry but I wouldn't be surprised if that then follows the Taycan path more. But the Macan EV could be a bit of a winner?

[Tindersticks]

Wills2 said:

Interestingly he fails to mention he'll have taken a bigger bath on each of his Ferraris than on the Taycan, the losses on his SF90 will equal the full list price of the Taycan as an example.

But that wouldn’t sit well with the newly acquired Ferrari VIP status.

[Wills2]

Tindersticks said:

Wills2 said:

Interestingly he fails to mention he'll have taken a bigger bath on each of his Ferraris than on the Taycan, the losses on his SF90 will equal the full list price of the Taycan as an example.

But that wouldn’t sit well with the newly acquired Ferrari VIP status.

True, but he deserves that based upon how much he's lost (but to be fair it's business so it's a cost of doing business) and the cars are capital equipment for it to run and make money.

It was a bit of a dig at Porsche I feel whilst ignoring the many elephants in his room (if you're going to moan about losing money) I still think the Taycan looks a fabulous thing when I see the many we have in the GC car park the depreciation in many ways is a good thing as they start to look like bargains.

[DonkeyApple]

Tindersticks said:

Wills2 said:

Interestingly he fails to mention he'll have taken a bigger bath on each of his Ferraris than on the Taycan, the losses on his SF90 will equal the full list price of the Taycan as an example.

But that wouldn’t sit well with the newly acquired Ferrari VIP status.

I'd be genuinely shocked if, as a business, they weren't locking out all risk at the point of acquiring the car?

Each of their cars is a revenue unit and I can't imagine it would work if they had floating figures at either end? I'm sure they tie it all down so that the only variable is the media revenues on the front end? Or maybe they run one large credit line and take on all the risk themselves but that doesn't seem as practical?

Either way, the margins on a video about a car when that car doesn't exist must be above average.

[nickfrog]

Maracus said:

Same here, only see more EVs where I live.

I have been in Paris for a week and numbers seem to be growing which makes the city even more relaxing to walk through. They're instrumental in this amazing transformation of the place over the past few years, less noise, better AQ.

But fear not, those users manage the extraordinary feat of also owing an nice ICE cars for those weekends in Deauville.

[DaveyBoyWonder]

Sure its been covered before but I've been scanning AT for something big to potentially replace my van (so big estate or SUV). Whilst looking at stuff like Merc GLs, E Classes, RRs etc, I've noticed quite a few Audi ETrons and Hyundai Ioniq 5s for the £20k mark that are only 3 years old - literally dropped half their value in 3 years compared to 18 plate diesel Tiguans for the same money with similar mileage. Are EVs purely a thing to lease and then throw away at the end and let someone else deal with the fact they're worthless??? Surely from the environmental POV, thats not great...

[DonkeyApple]

DaveyBoyWonder said:

Sure its been covered before but I've been scanning AT for something big to potentially replace my van (so big estate or SUV). Whilst looking at stuff like Merc GLs, E Classes, RRs etc, I've noticed quite a few Audi ETrons and Hyundai Ioniq 5s for the £20k mark that are only 3 years old - literally dropped half their value in 3 years compared to 18 plate diesel Tiguans for the same money with similar mileage. Are EVs purely a thing to lease and then throw away at the end and let someone else deal with the fact they're worthless??? Surely from the environmental POV, thats not great...

Compare monthly post BIK lease cost when new to the monthly cost of the same vehicle to use it today.

Then ask yourself whether the type of person who would be in the market for a used EV is the sort of person who rushes to cover a previous user's VAT and BIK?

Also ask yourself what happens to used values at 3 years if the owner (manufacturer) loses the ability to manipulate values upwards and against the consumer?

What staggers me about much of this EV debate is why people are questioning the cost of EVs at yr3 when very obviously what is happening is that those EVs are highlighting the decades long elephant in the room which is the abnormally high cost of ICE at 3 yrs!!!

Which of the two is being valued by the actual consumer at fair value and market forces and which one is being manipulated upwards against the consumer?

[sixor8]

Of course they're not worthless, it's just that the list price was ridiculous on some of them. Pre COVID, cars being 50% at trade price of RRP at 3 years old was the norm for the majority of cars and vans.

[nickfrog]

sixor8 said:

Of course they're not worthless, it's just that the list price was ridiculous on some of them. Pre COVID, cars being 50% at trade price of RRP at 3 years old was the norm for the majority of cars and vans.

Exactly. It's that simple.

[greenarrow]

Ignore my post from yesterday, here at Premier Inn Castle Marina, there ARE several chargers. So, could've done the trip in my Tesla (if I had one) with no fuss it seems....interesting to note for future reference. The soon to be launched R5 BEV is calling me! For now, I remain impressed with the indicated 65MPG in my chug chug, despite very heavy traffic yesterday on route including a half hour delay on the A34 due to lane closure. For me, to quote Chris Rea, the A34 between WInchester and the M40 is very much the road from hell.

[p1stonhead]

sixor8 said:

Of course they're not worthless, it's just that the list price was ridiculous on some of them. Pre COVID, cars being 50% at trade price of RRP at 3 years old was the norm for the majority of cars and vans.

Yep. Glad it’s finally getting back that way for some cars! I’ve been out in the wilderness for years now waiting

[Tindersticks]

DaveyBoyWonder said:

Sure its been covered before but I've been scanning AT for something big to potentially replace my van (so big estate or SUV). Whilst looking at stuff like Merc GLs, E Classes, RRs etc, I've noticed quite a few Audi ETrons and Hyundai Ioniq 5s for the £20k mark that are only 3 years old - literally dropped half their value in 3 years compared to 18 plate diesel Tiguans for the same money with similar mileage. Are EVs purely a thing to lease and then throw away at the end and let someone else deal with the fact they're worthless??? Surely from the environmental POV, thats not great...

How does 20k equate to worthless and thrown away?

[limpsfield]

Tindersticks said:

DaveyBoyWonder said:

Sure its been covered before but I've been scanning AT for something big to potentially replace my van (so big estate or SUV). Whilst looking at stuff like Merc GLs, E Classes, RRs etc, I've noticed quite a few Audi ETrons and Hyundai Ioniq 5s for the £20k mark that are only 3 years old - literally dropped half their value in 3 years compared to 18 plate diesel Tiguans for the same money with similar mileage. Are EVs purely a thing to lease and then throw away at the end and let someone else deal with the fact they're worthless??? Surely from the environmental POV, thats not great...

How does 20k equate to worthless and thrown away?

Absolutely! I don't know many people throwing away 20 grand cars.

I think there are some great deals for second hand evs. My Tesla is probably worth less than half list price at almost four years old - I reckon as an every day EV for the next few years, that is a steal.

[Terminator X]

ChocolateFrog said:

Perfectly reasonable. They certainly won't suit absolutely everybody but beyond the obvious click bait titles I'm sure the vast majority don't (and won't) go back.

Especially if like you you can have the best of both worlds.

The vast majority of a small minority

TX.

[DonkeyApple]

And yet it's a small minority that scares the living bejesus out of the usual suspects, like the first foreign family arriving on the street did, or the first non straight or non Christian encounter.

I think it's ok for people to be scared and even envious but there is a point where something that is natural tips into something verging on the medical. Alf Garnet was supposed to be a parody not a lifestyle guru.

[Tindersticks]

Oooo. New poster. First post. Hits it out of the park.