Tesla M3P price has risen, again!
Discussion
SWoll said:
JonChalk said:
Just thinking about the fact that it’s a $48000 car in California makes my eyes water - regardless of whether it’s made in China or the US - that’s ~£35000 at current exchange rate.
Does the RHD design mod really cost £25k?
Lots of other complexities like import costs and sales taxes to take into account. Hardly a new thing either, check the relative costs of things like mustangs and corvettes.Does the RHD design mod really cost £25k?
Its still a steal when you look at comparisons though, as you cant get much for $60k when you look at European brands (a BASE M340i starts at $54,700 before extras and registration). But as SWoll mentioned, compare that to a Mustang GT which starts at $36,000 before any potential discounts (and registration), you do have a lot of choice!
It was also mentioned elsewhere, you have to consider import tax, shipping and other costs before doing a direct translation. US cars tend to be cheaper, but it is not always the case. It is a bigger market and hence any reduction in profit could be made up in numbers, but I have no idea what the total of the costs might be. And lets be honest, Tesla need to make money, and if they can charge a little more in a certain market, they are going to do so.
SWoll said:
JonChalk said:
Just thinking about the fact that it’s a $48000 car in California makes my eyes water - regardless of whether it’s made in China or the US - that’s ~£35000 at current exchange rate.
Does the RHD design mod really cost £25k?
Lots of other complexities like import costs and sales taxes to take into account. Hardly a new thing either, check the relative costs of things like mustangs and corvettes.Does the RHD design mod really cost £25k?
Lim said:
They raised it again? Personally I wouldn't pay 13k for lowered suspension and larger tyres.
I'd go for the LR and see how it goes, then add the acceleration option if you feel something is missing.
I have the P3D stealth which is essentially a LR with 18" and 3.1s and it's nuts! Makes me smile every day, but I have the roads for it. Never driven a LR base without the addon, so couldn't tell you what the difference feels like.
Is testing both on the cards?
Ooo, post has moved....I'd go for the LR and see how it goes, then add the acceleration option if you feel something is missing.
I have the P3D stealth which is essentially a LR with 18" and 3.1s and it's nuts! Makes me smile every day, but I have the roads for it. Never driven a LR base without the addon, so couldn't tell you what the difference feels like.
Is testing both on the cards?
Edited by Lim on Wednesday 17th February 10:24
The smart choice, from what I understand is what you say here - the performance model is good, but the wheels do spoil the ride a little and the tires arent great on potholes. There are a few nice things with the P model, but does it justify the price? For many, not so much. The LR is supposed to be the one, great price and performance that is a great blend, if you can afford it. A lot of the automotive press here in the US say the real bargain of the range is the base model - because you get a lot for a price that you would struggle to get something else for, since even the Camry is going up market! But for the blend of performance, range and standard features, the LR is the one.
And if you really can tell the difference between 3.9 and 3.1, great, go for the P model. But anything that is sub 5 second is getting stupidly quick and given the nature of an EV, its accessible most of the time anyway. My C63S will do the sprint in 4.1 consistently, but I need to be in launch mode and pointing in a straight line. Any powerful EV is going to have those times broadly accessible most of the time with a simple stamp on the throttle. If you have to have the track mode and the lower 0-60, go for the P model, but if you arent going to use either of those, go for the LR model and pocket the money.
off_again said:
Ooo, post has moved....
The smart choice, from what I understand is what you say here - the performance model is good, but the wheels do spoil the ride a little and the tires arent great on potholes. There are a few nice things with the P model, but does it justify the price? For many, not so much. The LR is supposed to be the one, great price and performance that is a great blend, if you can afford it. A lot of the automotive press here in the US say the real bargain of the range is the base model - because you get a lot for a price that you would struggle to get something else for, since even the Camry is going up market! But for the blend of performance, range and standard features, the LR is the one.
And if you really can tell the difference between 3.9 and 3.1, great, go for the P model. But anything that is sub 5 second is getting stupidly quick and given the nature of an EV, its accessible most of the time anyway. My C63S will do the sprint in 4.1 consistently, but I need to be in launch mode and pointing in a straight line. Any powerful EV is going to have those times broadly accessible most of the time with a simple stamp on the throttle. If you have to have the track mode and the lower 0-60, go for the P model, but if you arent going to use either of those, go for the LR model and pocket the money.
I think the LR easily justifies the £6k increase over the SR+ with AWD, considerably more range, considerably more performance, better stereo and other options. Another £13k on top of that for the Performance as per todays pricing is a piss take I agree. The smart choice, from what I understand is what you say here - the performance model is good, but the wheels do spoil the ride a little and the tires arent great on potholes. There are a few nice things with the P model, but does it justify the price? For many, not so much. The LR is supposed to be the one, great price and performance that is a great blend, if you can afford it. A lot of the automotive press here in the US say the real bargain of the range is the base model - because you get a lot for a price that you would struggle to get something else for, since even the Camry is going up market! But for the blend of performance, range and standard features, the LR is the one.
And if you really can tell the difference between 3.9 and 3.1, great, go for the P model. But anything that is sub 5 second is getting stupidly quick and given the nature of an EV, its accessible most of the time anyway. My C63S will do the sprint in 4.1 consistently, but I need to be in launch mode and pointing in a straight line. Any powerful EV is going to have those times broadly accessible most of the time with a simple stamp on the throttle. If you have to have the track mode and the lower 0-60, go for the P model, but if you arent going to use either of those, go for the LR model and pocket the money.
Not sure I could cope with looking at those aero hub caps every day for 3-4 years though so would have to spec the £1450 'Sport wheel' option.
SteveC72 said:
I test drove the LR and the P back to back last week, before I knew about the price rise.
I honestly didn’t notice any difference in acceleration between them but I was sold on the P because it felt firmer and the steering felt more ‘point and go’ than the LR did. I took a few days to talk myself into it but I thought in the grand scheme of things it was only a few £k more to have the one I really wanted.
My plans got blown out the water when I found out The P had gone up to £60k so I’ll try another drive in the LR and see if I can convince myself.
I have the LR & acceleration boost and from a rolling start ~20mph onwards, its very near to the P. Numerous YouTube vids all about it.I honestly didn’t notice any difference in acceleration between them but I was sold on the P because it felt firmer and the steering felt more ‘point and go’ than the LR did. I took a few days to talk myself into it but I thought in the grand scheme of things it was only a few £k more to have the one I really wanted.
My plans got blown out the water when I found out The P had gone up to £60k so I’ll try another drive in the LR and see if I can convince myself.
SWoll said:
Another £13k on top of that for the Performance as per todays pricing is a piss take I agree.
The 'P' Teslas have always been awful 'value for money'. They are essentially the same cars as the cheapest versions with a bigger battery + different motor, which in material costs are peanuts but Tesla have in the past charged nearly double the asking price......However its no different to a 320D and M3 interms cost to manufacturers and profit margins, as long as people are willing to pay, Elon keeps getting richer.Its also quite easy to forget just how fast even the slowest cars Tesla make are, especially with zero lag and instant throttle in put. I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone WOT on our 75D X in the last 6 months and than quickly worried about blue flashing lights in the mirror or a NIP in the post.
The interesting thing about EV prices is a few years ago people were afraid to buy EVs because they thought in 2-3 years time EVs would be cheaper/better, a bit like phones. It appears like phones, yes they are better but you also need to dig deeper into your pockets.
I nearly fell of my chair a few years ago when I saw Apple/Samsung wanted £1k+ on phones, yet we just spent over £2k on upgrading phones vesus £700 the last time we upgraded. So though I cannot quite believe the asking price of any of these new EVs versus price from 2015, I suspect in a few years time I'll just pony up the money and get on with life.......
.......anyways isn't negative interest rates coming, so we are all going to have access to unlimited free money soon;)
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 18th February 05:38
gangzoom said:
The 'P' Teslas have always been awful 'value for money'. They are essentially the same cars as the cheapest versions with a bigger battery
Can you elaborate on that? That statement seems like an oxymoron in it's own?It's always been the bigger battery one HENCE the most expensive version. On top of that sometimes some different interior trim, wheels, and some other cosmetics (spoiler, painted calipers,....).
I've opted against it myself as I too thought it wasn't good value, so I got a regular LR.
gangzoom said:
The 'P' Teslas have always been awful 'value for money'. They are essentially the same cars as the cheapest versions with a bigger battery + different motor,
When first launched the £6-7k upgrade cost over the LR made a lot more sense with the addition of 20" alloy wheels, bigger brakes, lower suspension, better perforance etc. when you consider the 19" sport wheel + performance boost options on the LR cost £3k on their own. SWoll said:
When first launched the £6-7k upgrade cost over the LR made a lot more sense with the addition of 20" alloy wheels, bigger brakes, lower suspension, better perforance etc. when you consider the 19" sport wheel + performance boost options on the LR cost £3k on their own.
How much extra do these options cost Tesla during product manufacture? Elon is no mug when it comes to maximising profit 
bigothunter said:
How much extra do these options cost Tesla during product manufacture? Elon is no mug when it comes to maximising profit
Yes, the Musk has his hand in the practice of overcharging for options on a car!I'd even say he invented it, hopefully other manufacturers don't take note.
Good thing we can get an e-tron/i-pace/Taycan now to avoid such convenances.
ZesPak said:
Can you elaborate on that? That statement seems like an oxymoron in it's own?
It's always been the bigger battery one HENCE the most expensive version. On top of that sometimes some different interior trim, wheels, and some other cosmetics (spoiler, painted calipers,....).
The battery packs in 'Long range' cars are identical to P car, the old SR cars (like my 75D) has essentially 2-3 less battery modules, yes that has more manufacturing cost but I suspect its $$$ and no where near the $$$$$ been charged to the consumer.It's always been the bigger battery one HENCE the most expensive version. On top of that sometimes some different interior trim, wheels, and some other cosmetics (spoiler, painted calipers,....).
For Tesla's everything else between a base SR and P is pretty much identical. Wheels, plastic spoilers, and calliper paint is there to justify the price differential. Infact there is plenty of evidence non P cars are software limited to ensure they don't get too close to the P cars, but again Tesla aren't the only ones doing this.
There is nothing wrong with upselling to gain a profit, every industry does it, but if you are looking for the best value for money car Tesla sells its never been the P cars.
gangzoom said:
The battery packs in 'Long range' cars are identical to P car, the old SR cars (like my 75D) has essentially 2-3 less battery modules, yes that has more manufacturing cost but I suspect its $$$ and no where near the $$$$$ been charged to the consumer.
Ah no, of course, you're right.I read "essentially the same as their base car with a bigger battery and an extra motor" and thought, well, yes
.But indeed, as others have said. What is an M3 but another engine, some suspension bits and some cosmetics?
Talking about VFM though... if 0-60 is your thing, the P versions seems very good VFM.
You can spec a new BMW M3 to over £100k (admittedly this will have stuff the Model 3 doesn't), but I think that even at £60k the Performance is decent value. That said, it used to be much better value and the Long Range is a much better buy.
I think the invoice price for my 2019 Performance was something like £49k.
I think the invoice price for my 2019 Performance was something like £49k.
From memory I think it was £50k when I was buying. It chopped around a lot.
I'm sure we've all done it, but well worth a play with the taycan config if you havn't
https://www.porsche.com/uk/modelstart/all/?modelra...
One day...
I'm sure we've all done it, but well worth a play with the taycan config if you havn't
https://www.porsche.com/uk/modelstart/all/?modelra...
One day...
Edited by Lim on Thursday 18th February 13:38
David87 said:
You can spec a new BMW M3 to over £100k (admittedly this will have stuff the Model 3 doesn't), but I think that even at £60k the Performance is decent value. That said, it used to be much better value and the Long Range is a much better buy.
A lot of nay sayers will say you can't compare it to a BMW M3, but when you start looking at what BMW/Audi/Merc do offer at that price point, you'd have to go fish for some serious discounts on an M340i to get it in the same budget.
ZesPak said:
David87 said:
You can spec a new BMW M3 to over £100k (admittedly this will have stuff the Model 3 doesn't), but I think that even at £60k the Performance is decent value. That said, it used to be much better value and the Long Range is a much better buy.
A lot of nay sayers will say you can't compare it to a BMW M3, but when you start looking at what BMW/Audi/Merc do offer at that price point, you'd have to go fish for some serious discounts on an M340i to get it in the same budget.
Not as plush inside or special overall as an M3, RS4 or C63 but far quicker both on paper and in the real world, more practical and more useable on UK roads and after working out the TCO over a 3 year period is going to cost me around 50% of what those ICE alternatives would have done.
These cars are all compromised by weight and other practical concerns anyway so I'll bank the difference until I'm ready to buy a toy that delivers a proper driving experience when fun is the only priority to consider.
For ref our M3P costs £799 a month which includes maintenance, supercharging/BP charging and insurance for 12k miles per year. We're also not locked into a long term deal.
The new M3 on similar terms is £1200 a month + insurance + fuel + maintenance with a 3 year commitment.
Edited by SWoll on Thursday 18th February 16:36
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