Road Rally / 1.4 Endurance Rally Cars
Discussion
Afternoon from a Rally newby.
I’m thinking of getting a little project going, namely building a car for the Endurance Rally events.
I’m thinking of starting off doing a few more Autosolo’s, and Gymkhana / Targa type events, and over a period of time build it up to Endurance Rally spec.
The exam question is what car??
So far I have a shortlist of a Nova 1.3/1.4 or a MG ZR 105, with the pro’s and con’s being:
Nova
Pro’s - Used Rally parts seem plentiful. Had one as my first car, so have a soft spot. Light.
Con’s – Availability of good shells. Not that cheap to buy. Wouldn’t want to crash one, before the cage goes in.
MG ZR -
Pro’s – Lots of cheap ones to buy. Far newer. Seem quite well thought of in the Rally world. Haven’t found cheap rally bits that plentiful.
Con’s – Too heavy?
Any constructive thoughts much appreciated.
If you can find one then a Series 1 Peugeot 106 Rallye is ideal for this.
If you want to build one for a labour of love, the Nova/MG/Pug are all ideal, but if you are just trying to get into the sport seriously consider buying a pre built one, you'll save time & money. To be honest there are a lot of enduro cars out there, and rally cars aren't high on shopping lists at the moment so you can get them for pretty good prices - for example -
http://www.britishrally.co.uk/classifieds_view.php...
A bit left field - but I also know the where abouts of an ex Skoda Felicia cup car, would make an ideal base. The reason I know it would be so good is we originally had it built to a superb spec in the 90's and I know the chap who currently has it would consider selling. As enduro is not all about speed then it could be a good choice and very cheap to run.
If you want any more info PM me - I'll run you through the full spec of the car and who to speak to about it.
If you want to build one for a labour of love, the Nova/MG/Pug are all ideal, but if you are just trying to get into the sport seriously consider buying a pre built one, you'll save time & money. To be honest there are a lot of enduro cars out there, and rally cars aren't high on shopping lists at the moment so you can get them for pretty good prices - for example -
http://www.britishrally.co.uk/classifieds_view.php...
A bit left field - but I also know the where abouts of an ex Skoda Felicia cup car, would make an ideal base. The reason I know it would be so good is we originally had it built to a superb spec in the 90's and I know the chap who currently has it would consider selling. As enduro is not all about speed then it could be a good choice and very cheap to run.
If you want any more info PM me - I'll run you through the full spec of the car and who to speak to about it.
Rover 200/25 as a base car are even cheaper than an MGZR if you are attempting the build route, as with any motorsport though a 'standard' car can be anything but.
There was a car for sale recently on 7oaks motorclub forum - a quick and competitive car but the advert explained why!!
Steve
There was a car for sale recently on 7oaks motorclub forum - a quick and competitive car but the advert explained why!!
Steve
Depends how cool you want to look... I have a 1400cc Pug 205 Rallye rep for this type of event, but would not want to be seen in a Micra....
My 205 qualifies for classic car insurance, which makes mild modifying easier on the insurance side of things. ( Adrian Flux )
My choice would be a 205 / 106 Rallye, or replica, or a Nova SR if you can find one?
I drunkenly bought this for £181.49p on ebay ( a 1400cc 205 open, 9 months MOT ) £99 for sticker kit, spray paint for wheels, ditch carpets, t-cut and polish and it owes me under £500. £150 classic car insurance. Did an entire 6 event summer autotest series and a road rally, it failed its new MOT on washer jets... Quality cheap motorsport!!
My 205 qualifies for classic car insurance, which makes mild modifying easier on the insurance side of things. ( Adrian Flux )
My choice would be a 205 / 106 Rallye, or replica, or a Nova SR if you can find one?
I drunkenly bought this for £181.49p on ebay ( a 1400cc 205 open, 9 months MOT ) £99 for sticker kit, spray paint for wheels, ditch carpets, t-cut and polish and it owes me under £500. £150 classic car insurance. Did an entire 6 event summer autotest series and a road rally, it failed its new MOT on washer jets... Quality cheap motorsport!!
Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Wednesday 28th November 22:05
Thanks for the comments to far.
I don't think I could face a Micra or similar as 'my racing car'. A 1.4 MG is hardly a GT3 Cup car, but at least it looks slightly more the part.
Regarding the build verses built issue, and in order to gauge costs, where is the best place to buy / sell rally cars and parts online?
Cheers
I don't think I could face a Micra or similar as 'my racing car'. A 1.4 MG is hardly a GT3 Cup car, but at least it looks slightly more the part.
Regarding the build verses built issue, and in order to gauge costs, where is the best place to buy / sell rally cars and parts online?
Cheers
One for the OP, where abouts are you based?, for one reason or another Endurance Rallying seems to be very biased towards the south of the country, great if you live in the Midlands or further south, less great if you live in the north.
On the Cars, I'd second the comment about buying a preprepared one, it will be cheaper without a doubt. As noticed the MG's are very competitive and although the rules are strict the cars are far from standard and a lot of money is thrown at the quicker ones, that doesn't get realised when they are sold.
Also you may not be aware but from next year a new type of event is going get sanctioned, called a Targa Rally, strip that back to it's basics and it's not unlikely they might feel very much like Endurance Rallies, but with a much more open regulations for the cars. I'd try to find out what events are planned in the area you live in and see if Endurance would work for you, or if Targa or Road Rallying might work better.
On the Cars, I'd second the comment about buying a preprepared one, it will be cheaper without a doubt. As noticed the MG's are very competitive and although the rules are strict the cars are far from standard and a lot of money is thrown at the quicker ones, that doesn't get realised when they are sold.
Also you may not be aware but from next year a new type of event is going get sanctioned, called a Targa Rally, strip that back to it's basics and it's not unlikely they might feel very much like Endurance Rallies, but with a much more open regulations for the cars. I'd try to find out what events are planned in the area you live in and see if Endurance would work for you, or if Targa or Road Rallying might work better.
sanf said:
If you can find one then a Series 1 Peugeot 106 Rallye is ideal for this.
If you want to build one for a labour of love, the Nova/MG/Pug are all ideal, but if you are just trying to get into the sport seriously consider buying a pre built one, you'll save time & money. To be honest there are a lot of enduro cars out there, and rally cars aren't high on shopping lists at the moment so you can get them for pretty good prices - for example -
http://www.britishrally.co.uk/classifieds_view.php...
A bit left field - but I also know the where abouts of an ex Skoda Felicia cup car, would make an ideal base. The reason I know it would be so good is we originally had it built to a superb spec in the 90's and I know the chap who currently has it would consider selling. As enduro is not all about speed then it could be a good choice and very cheap to run.
If you want any more info PM me - I'll run you through the full spec of the car and who to speak to about it.
Ha, I know that Car been up against it a few times in the Lanes... If you want to build one for a labour of love, the Nova/MG/Pug are all ideal, but if you are just trying to get into the sport seriously consider buying a pre built one, you'll save time & money. To be honest there are a lot of enduro cars out there, and rally cars aren't high on shopping lists at the moment so you can get them for pretty good prices - for example -
http://www.britishrally.co.uk/classifieds_view.php...
A bit left field - but I also know the where abouts of an ex Skoda Felicia cup car, would make an ideal base. The reason I know it would be so good is we originally had it built to a superb spec in the 90's and I know the chap who currently has it would consider selling. As enduro is not all about speed then it could be a good choice and very cheap to run.
If you want any more info PM me - I'll run you through the full spec of the car and who to speak to about it.
velocemitch said:
One for the OP, where abouts are you based?
Bedfordshire, so quite central.velocemitch said:
Targa Rallying might work better.
I did spot this on the Chelmsford Car Club website, and I was thinking of using them as a step to the Endurance Rally's. So get a 1400 car and develop it over a year or so.I didn't realise that the Targa format was a 'new for 2013' MSA format. Are there any other clubs going to run them?
Mind you I'm now thinking that I could get a ZR 160 (which would presumably be more competive for Targa) and develop that, and then if I want to make the move to Endurance Rallys (1400cc max) swap the performance bits onto a 1400 car.
Targa is so new that I've not seen any firm announcements yet, though I did hear a permit has already been issued for an event this year in Wales. Some of ther norhern clubs are thinking of running Targa's alongside the Historic rounds in the NESCRO championship, but how that will pan out remains to be seen.
You are certainly central enough to make Endurance work for you and given that it's an established championship you wouldn't go far wrong to buy or build a car to suit it. You can always enter a Targa or Road Rally with the same car, so it does give you options.
Realistically, the post showing Ian Beech's Micra is not such a bad idea, it's eligible for Endurance, it goes surprisingly well on road rallies and is very cheap. I'd be seriously tempted to buy it and run it for a year to learn the ropes and then make a decision as to what you want to do for the future. You can't loose much at that price and you won't be saddled with an expensive car to a specification you find doesn't suit you. Also gives you chance to see which way the wind is blowing, road rallying in all forms is going through a period of change and nobody really knows yet where it's heading (or not, it might just stay as it is).
You are certainly central enough to make Endurance work for you and given that it's an established championship you wouldn't go far wrong to buy or build a car to suit it. You can always enter a Targa or Road Rally with the same car, so it does give you options.
Realistically, the post showing Ian Beech's Micra is not such a bad idea, it's eligible for Endurance, it goes surprisingly well on road rallies and is very cheap. I'd be seriously tempted to buy it and run it for a year to learn the ropes and then make a decision as to what you want to do for the future. You can't loose much at that price and you won't be saddled with an expensive car to a specification you find doesn't suit you. Also gives you chance to see which way the wind is blowing, road rallying in all forms is going through a period of change and nobody really knows yet where it's heading (or not, it might just stay as it is).
Something like this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-106-Rallye-Log-b...
Couldn't agree more with velocemitch's last comment.
Buying already prepped will always be cheaper (as long as you avoid something that's completely knackered or a lookalike rally car) - it also avoids you having such a clean sheet that you don't know what to do first.
Just to make it a bit clearer: targa / enduro / conventional road rallies are all more or less the same anyway, the only major differences being whether daytime or night time and how rough the terrain is. In each case though, you need a good navigator!!! It's not just a case of driver and car...
Targas as said are a new format for next year, hence why there's not much info about them on the 'net so far. Chelmsford MC has run successful Gymkhanas for years - these are similar but with some less challenging (non-driving) bits thrown in to fit with the MSA rules. Next year they're changing the format and running them as targas instead, and this would certainly be a good place to start. Living in the midlands, ChelmsfordMC, Loughborough Car Club and Mercia Motor Sports are where you need to be really.
Logical step from targa is road rallies (including 12 cars) and / or enduros. The only real difference relates to car eligibility; max 1400cc applies to enduro but not road rallies.
For interest, I've got the following:
Nova GTE road rally car - ok for road rallies and targas but not enduro unless I fit a smaller engine.
Skoda Felicia ex-Trophy stage car (like the one referred to above) - not ok for road rallies or enduros as it's in works colours, but will probably fit within targa rules. Not particularly quick though, and a bit more go would help for conventional road rallies.
Austin 1300 road rally car - ok for road / targa and also enduro if I beefed it up a bit. Also ok for historics. Eligibility for historics (pre '82) is worth considering, as a lot of the best events are historic.
Buying already prepped will always be cheaper (as long as you avoid something that's completely knackered or a lookalike rally car) - it also avoids you having such a clean sheet that you don't know what to do first.
Just to make it a bit clearer: targa / enduro / conventional road rallies are all more or less the same anyway, the only major differences being whether daytime or night time and how rough the terrain is. In each case though, you need a good navigator!!! It's not just a case of driver and car...
Targas as said are a new format for next year, hence why there's not much info about them on the 'net so far. Chelmsford MC has run successful Gymkhanas for years - these are similar but with some less challenging (non-driving) bits thrown in to fit with the MSA rules. Next year they're changing the format and running them as targas instead, and this would certainly be a good place to start. Living in the midlands, ChelmsfordMC, Loughborough Car Club and Mercia Motor Sports are where you need to be really.
Logical step from targa is road rallies (including 12 cars) and / or enduros. The only real difference relates to car eligibility; max 1400cc applies to enduro but not road rallies.
For interest, I've got the following:
Nova GTE road rally car - ok for road rallies and targas but not enduro unless I fit a smaller engine.
Skoda Felicia ex-Trophy stage car (like the one referred to above) - not ok for road rallies or enduros as it's in works colours, but will probably fit within targa rules. Not particularly quick though, and a bit more go would help for conventional road rallies.
Austin 1300 road rally car - ok for road / targa and also enduro if I beefed it up a bit. Also ok for historics. Eligibility for historics (pre '82) is worth considering, as a lot of the best events are historic.
We are running an Endurance car now a 205 1.3, though not on Endurance events. It's being used on Northern Road rallies and a few Targa permit events too. Nicely prepared car, built for the first Lombard and little used since. My Brother swapped it for a 106 Rallye and Hillclimb prepped 205, both of which were in bits.
Not quiet in Endurance spec now as it has the front brakes off a 1.6GTi and we aren't limited on Tyres either. It could do with a bit more Power but handles the rough stuff better then the Clio 172 we used last year and has brought us decent results so far.
Not quiet in Endurance spec now as it has the front brakes off a 1.6GTi and we aren't limited on Tyres either. It could do with a bit more Power but handles the rough stuff better then the Clio 172 we used last year and has brought us decent results so far.
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