2023 UK Targa/Road Rallying Thread
Discussion
It was the latest round of the Weald MC 12 Car championship on Friday. Bexley LCC arranged a tricky 48 mile route out the back of Brands Hatch, and it was a rally of two halves.
First half was tight, twisty and very muddy and rough. We were keeping pretty much on time and were leading the Expert class up until TC6 (of 8). Second half not so good - a bit of delay plotting the 6-7 section and a plotting error on 7-8 meant we dropped a few minutes and got a fail for missing a code. The roads were much faster and our opposition could move quicker than us!
A lot of general public traffic on the route too, so catching up time was tricky. Still, we came 2nd Expert and 7th o/a (overall results merge Expert / NonExpert / Novice (30 min pre-plot) and Beginners (marked maps).
One more to go in this series this year, then Berwick Targa at the end of April.
Now I have to use the grubby Mini to take my daughter to Wembley Arena because I've sold the family car!
First half was tight, twisty and very muddy and rough. We were keeping pretty much on time and were leading the Expert class up until TC6 (of 8). Second half not so good - a bit of delay plotting the 6-7 section and a plotting error on 7-8 meant we dropped a few minutes and got a fail for missing a code. The roads were much faster and our opposition could move quicker than us!
A lot of general public traffic on the route too, so catching up time was tricky. Still, we came 2nd Expert and 7th o/a (overall results merge Expert / NonExpert / Novice (30 min pre-plot) and Beginners (marked maps).
One more to go in this series this year, then Berwick Targa at the end of April.
Now I have to use the grubby Mini to take my daughter to Wembley Arena because I've sold the family car!
Ranger 6 said:
Sounds great, I wonder if I’d qualify as a novice as the last time I navigated was in the early 90s 
Under our club rules yes, we put a time limit on recent experience, partly to give people coming back in to navigating a leg up.Interestingly I think I am seeing an uptick in the interest in 12 Cars and road rallying in general these last couple of years. Maybe it’s the Streetcar initiative or fall out from the rise and rise of Targa.
It was the last round of the Weald MC 12 Car championship last night, organised by Blackpalfrey MC and based out of a village near Maidstone.
And..... we won it!
Got all the codes and only dropped 3 mins. We had a nip & tick battle all night with Derek Arnold and Simon Fuidge in car 1 (we were car 2) and we were on the same minute for much of the night. He's a much quicker driver than me, but my navigator had a better night. We sealed it on the last section when we correctly slotted right and we saw them going straight on and losing a couple of minutes more.
Delighted to pick up a mug trophy!
I'm waiting for the championship results to see where we came over the year. But it's been great fun competing in the same crowd each month or so since October. I think we will do the same again this winter. A couple of photos.
And..... we won it!
Got all the codes and only dropped 3 mins. We had a nip & tick battle all night with Derek Arnold and Simon Fuidge in car 1 (we were car 2) and we were on the same minute for much of the night. He's a much quicker driver than me, but my navigator had a better night. We sealed it on the last section when we correctly slotted right and we saw them going straight on and losing a couple of minutes more.
Delighted to pick up a mug trophy!
I'm waiting for the championship results to see where we came over the year. But it's been great fun competing in the same crowd each month or so since October. I think we will do the same again this winter. A couple of photos.
Here's a wee thing that some of you might be interested in - Eco Rally Scotland.
Basically a regularity rally for EVs. We are considering an entry in my pal's Tesla.
https://www.smrc.co.uk/news/ecorally-scotland-laun...
Basically a regularity rally for EVs. We are considering an entry in my pal's Tesla.
https://www.smrc.co.uk/news/ecorally-scotland-laun...
Bit of a catch up from me then.
The 12 car season is over now, the last DeLacy one was fun, but the usual situation applied that the Experts are at an instant disadvantage when novices get the route well before and can get everything down on the map, whilst relaxing with a cup of tea in the kitchen. Experts have to plot and bash which means plotting tricky instructions on the move, whilst also directing the driver and breaking off every couple of minutes to write down a code board.
Most of the novices have now done a good number of events and are clearly getting the hang of it! I think we would up about 6th on the last one, but once again first experts.
Ilkley finally organised a 12 car as the last round of their navigation championship ( the rest being scatters) this was a superb event a clear step up in organising skills from the DeLacy ones a cracking route and some very very tight timing. Sadly the dreaded preplot of novices got us again and we managed fourth, again first experts. I. Not sure how it’s possible to fix this little issue.
Sunday saw us out on the North Yorkshire Classic Rally. The intention with this was to enter the main Historic event in my Alfa, but it’s two year restoration didn’t quite finish in time, so we switched to the Targa section and ran in the Corsa instead.
The new CoC had tried a lot of new ideas on this, with navigation instructions and code board systems not usually seen on a HRCR event, I have to say it all seemed to work brilliantly and was a fantastic event from start to finish. Being in the Targa section meant I only got a Tulip roadbook, so whilst I did plot some on to the Map, it was mostly just reading the tulips and trying our best to get the timing right, with the big gaps between tulips. I’m used to doing regularity events where you use speed tables so working the time out at every tenth of a mile. This means you can be a acurate to a second or two all the time. With tulip, distances and times a mile or so apart it’s a lot harder. ( it’s supposed to be easier!)
Anyway, we had a clean run got all the controls and codes and were only about 10 seconds out here and there. Wound up third in the Targa section With times which would have given us about 17th overall out of the 88 cars entered. Not bad for my drivers first regularity event.
Not sure what to do next, might switch to driving for the Next event, the Alfa WILL be ready for that!
The 12 car season is over now, the last DeLacy one was fun, but the usual situation applied that the Experts are at an instant disadvantage when novices get the route well before and can get everything down on the map, whilst relaxing with a cup of tea in the kitchen. Experts have to plot and bash which means plotting tricky instructions on the move, whilst also directing the driver and breaking off every couple of minutes to write down a code board.
Most of the novices have now done a good number of events and are clearly getting the hang of it! I think we would up about 6th on the last one, but once again first experts.
Ilkley finally organised a 12 car as the last round of their navigation championship ( the rest being scatters) this was a superb event a clear step up in organising skills from the DeLacy ones a cracking route and some very very tight timing. Sadly the dreaded preplot of novices got us again and we managed fourth, again first experts. I. Not sure how it’s possible to fix this little issue.
Sunday saw us out on the North Yorkshire Classic Rally. The intention with this was to enter the main Historic event in my Alfa, but it’s two year restoration didn’t quite finish in time, so we switched to the Targa section and ran in the Corsa instead.
The new CoC had tried a lot of new ideas on this, with navigation instructions and code board systems not usually seen on a HRCR event, I have to say it all seemed to work brilliantly and was a fantastic event from start to finish. Being in the Targa section meant I only got a Tulip roadbook, so whilst I did plot some on to the Map, it was mostly just reading the tulips and trying our best to get the timing right, with the big gaps between tulips. I’m used to doing regularity events where you use speed tables so working the time out at every tenth of a mile. This means you can be a acurate to a second or two all the time. With tulip, distances and times a mile or so apart it’s a lot harder. ( it’s supposed to be easier!)
Anyway, we had a clean run got all the controls and codes and were only about 10 seconds out here and there. Wound up third in the Targa section With times which would have given us about 17th overall out of the 88 cars entered. Not bad for my drivers first regularity event.
Not sure what to do next, might switch to driving for the Next event, the Alfa WILL be ready for that!
Great performance, sounded like a lot of fun.
Re: Beginners / Novices / Experts etc, we have the same issue down in the Kent/Sussex Weald area.
This year, one beginner crew pretty much won every event (and organised one) so they wrapped up the championship with a round or two to go. In this case, the driver (father) was very experienced and the navigator (son) was the beginner.
To be honest it doesn't bother me, and we managed to beat everyone on the last event. As long as those beginners stick with rallying and move up through the ranks, then all is well.
The issue down our way is that there's nowhere for the experts to move up to from 12 Cars locally. There is occasional talk of a 20:20 but prospects of a proper long navigational rally or road rally are pretty thin nowadays. So the experts get more expert in the local area, the organisers have to become more devious to avoid them cleaning it, and the newly-promotors experts find it hard.
But in the end, we all enjoy it and have a laugh in the pub afterwards. Long live 12 car rallying!
Re: Beginners / Novices / Experts etc, we have the same issue down in the Kent/Sussex Weald area.
This year, one beginner crew pretty much won every event (and organised one) so they wrapped up the championship with a round or two to go. In this case, the driver (father) was very experienced and the navigator (son) was the beginner.
To be honest it doesn't bother me, and we managed to beat everyone on the last event. As long as those beginners stick with rallying and move up through the ranks, then all is well.
The issue down our way is that there's nowhere for the experts to move up to from 12 Cars locally. There is occasional talk of a 20:20 but prospects of a proper long navigational rally or road rally are pretty thin nowadays. So the experts get more expert in the local area, the organisers have to become more devious to avoid them cleaning it, and the newly-promotors experts find it hard.
But in the end, we all enjoy it and have a laugh in the pub afterwards. Long live 12 car rallying!
It’s a tricky one. We do have a fair number of opportunities for people to progress in the north.
A really good example is a husband and wife crew who started road rallying last year.
They did all the right things, had a year as a couple as beginners, made the decision themselves to move to experts and despite struggling on PnB, still managed to get decent results.
They were out together on the North Yorks Classic in the full HRCR event and won first Novice and about 22nd overall. Despite getting a wrong test.
That sort of improvement is exactly what 12 cars are for.
I’m navigating for the guy on a road rally in a couple of weeks ( it clashes with the his wife’s weekend away). I know it’s going to be a really good run out, he’s quick!
A really good example is a husband and wife crew who started road rallying last year.
They did all the right things, had a year as a couple as beginners, made the decision themselves to move to experts and despite struggling on PnB, still managed to get decent results.
They were out together on the North Yorks Classic in the full HRCR event and won first Novice and about 22nd overall. Despite getting a wrong test.
That sort of improvement is exactly what 12 cars are for.
I’m navigating for the guy on a road rally in a couple of weeks ( it clashes with the his wife’s weekend away). I know it’s going to be a really good run out, he’s quick!
Been quiet.
Done our local 12cars which have gone reasonably well, but all with very green Nav,s so its taxing trying to drive, teach the nav the little I know and try and enjoy it. I did Nav for my brother and managed to finish 3rd which I was happy with, as I am far from an experienced Nav.
I have entries in for the Shaw trophy Targa up in the stewartshields plantation at Otterburn also entered for the 061 stockport MC targa based at Weeton barracks at Preston and might enter the Rallye East Yorkshire.
I am getting the car re passported tomorrow so will hopefully get out and have a look at the trackrod carlisle stages, Malton forest and Grizedale as thats 30mins from home.
See how we get on but I really want to do the RAC in 2025 when I am 40
Done our local 12cars which have gone reasonably well, but all with very green Nav,s so its taxing trying to drive, teach the nav the little I know and try and enjoy it. I did Nav for my brother and managed to finish 3rd which I was happy with, as I am far from an experienced Nav.
I have entries in for the Shaw trophy Targa up in the stewartshields plantation at Otterburn also entered for the 061 stockport MC targa based at Weeton barracks at Preston and might enter the Rallye East Yorkshire.
I am getting the car re passported tomorrow so will hopefully get out and have a look at the trackrod carlisle stages, Malton forest and Grizedale as thats 30mins from home.
See how we get on but I really want to do the RAC in 2025 when I am 40
Done two local 12 cars. One with a first time 12 car navigator who plotted up on the dining room table. the night before, and we also had a number of not as map (NAM) diagrams. That was challenging enough it was a tough baptism of fire getting round but we managed and weren't last. Even with the pre plot I think one crew who threw the towel in due to the amount of plotting.
The second 12 car (same as VM above) was with someone who wins as driver on HRCR " brainache" rallies and we last did a 12 car several decades ago. Due to the change of roles for the navigator/time gap since the last time out we counted as Novices.
Got the Route the evening before apart from the last section. There were regularity sections, so me, the driver had to wear a headlight to see the speed tables to help out with the regularity. Not problem on daylight events, but not so easy in the dark and especially without my large print tables!!.
Missed spotting three route checks early on. Just one less and we would have won. "Won" the second half when we got back into it. Quite different navigation etc to the 12 cars we did decades ago.
Great fun and organised very much as a "proper" road rally with a massive turn out of marshals. Yep novices 1st and 2nd on this 12 car.
Then did the HRCR round, the North Yorkshire classic but the Targa section, very much in the mould of the Ilkley Jubilee "run" that used to sit at the back of the HRCR round.
Tulip road book but some long regularity sections. Back to the first time 12 car young navigator, but, who is quite experienced at doing the Ilkley jubilee run. Pretty Switched on to regularity stuff on a tulip road book, didn't look at the maps all day. The last time we did the Jubilee run was 2019, so some rust on both sides of the car needed to be shaken off. Got beaten into second on test times and beaten into the second on the regularities, but the best on test times was not so good on the regularities and best on the regularities was not so good on the tests so we topped the overall Targa results sheet at Finnish.
The novice/expert thing is a tricky one on 12 cars. Events seem to define novices differently, one event the same crew can qualify as novice and on another event they can be expert/masters.
The issue of 12 car organisers making it easy enough not to put off newcomers but still get a result when there are experts competing is tricky. A level playing field for the overall result is a conundrum.
Everyone has their own idea of what makes the event difficult, complexity/difficulty of navigational instructions, pre plot, plot and bash, regularity sections. Then you have the issue of what kit competitors have in cars, newcomers are unlikely to have a car with a decent calibrated trip meter in, a decent timer and speed tables that are essential to do well on some regularities. GPS trips are not very accurate and the signal can be lost at inopportune moments.
Good to see the local 12 car scene flourishing, some new young organisers and new young competitors.
PS I'm not stalking velocemitch honest,
Doing the same events, running one car behind on the NYCR targa is purely coincidental.
The second 12 car (same as VM above) was with someone who wins as driver on HRCR " brainache" rallies and we last did a 12 car several decades ago. Due to the change of roles for the navigator/time gap since the last time out we counted as Novices.
Got the Route the evening before apart from the last section. There were regularity sections, so me, the driver had to wear a headlight to see the speed tables to help out with the regularity. Not problem on daylight events, but not so easy in the dark and especially without my large print tables!!.
Missed spotting three route checks early on. Just one less and we would have won. "Won" the second half when we got back into it. Quite different navigation etc to the 12 cars we did decades ago.
Great fun and organised very much as a "proper" road rally with a massive turn out of marshals. Yep novices 1st and 2nd on this 12 car.
Then did the HRCR round, the North Yorkshire classic but the Targa section, very much in the mould of the Ilkley Jubilee "run" that used to sit at the back of the HRCR round.
Tulip road book but some long regularity sections. Back to the first time 12 car young navigator, but, who is quite experienced at doing the Ilkley jubilee run. Pretty Switched on to regularity stuff on a tulip road book, didn't look at the maps all day. The last time we did the Jubilee run was 2019, so some rust on both sides of the car needed to be shaken off. Got beaten into second on test times and beaten into the second on the regularities, but the best on test times was not so good on the regularities and best on the regularities was not so good on the tests so we topped the overall Targa results sheet at Finnish.
The novice/expert thing is a tricky one on 12 cars. Events seem to define novices differently, one event the same crew can qualify as novice and on another event they can be expert/masters.
The issue of 12 car organisers making it easy enough not to put off newcomers but still get a result when there are experts competing is tricky. A level playing field for the overall result is a conundrum.
Everyone has their own idea of what makes the event difficult, complexity/difficulty of navigational instructions, pre plot, plot and bash, regularity sections. Then you have the issue of what kit competitors have in cars, newcomers are unlikely to have a car with a decent calibrated trip meter in, a decent timer and speed tables that are essential to do well on some regularities. GPS trips are not very accurate and the signal can be lost at inopportune moments.
Good to see the local 12 car scene flourishing, some new young organisers and new young competitors.
PS I'm not stalking velocemitch honest,
Doing the same events, running one car behind on the NYCR targa is purely coincidental.[quote=Wingo PS I'm not stalking velocemitch honest, Doing the same events, running one car behind on the NYCR targa is purely coincidental.
[/quote]
In reality I think you should have been the Car in front!
I did expect your young lad to beat us on the regs, he got some good times on the Jubilee and I’ve not got the knack of keeping the time right on the long distances between Tulips. Speed tables work better for me, but I couldn’t track the speed changes off the tulips when I tried using them.
The Run will be back on the Jubilee this year, I just haven’t worked out quite how yet. Probably marked maps and a table for distances and times.
I’m not keen on the idea of writing 100 and odd miles of tulip diagrams!
Doing the same events, running one car behind on the NYCR targa is purely coincidental.[/quote]
In reality I think you should have been the Car in front!
I did expect your young lad to beat us on the regs, he got some good times on the Jubilee and I’ve not got the knack of keeping the time right on the long distances between Tulips. Speed tables work better for me, but I couldn’t track the speed changes off the tulips when I tried using them.
The Run will be back on the Jubilee this year, I just haven’t worked out quite how yet. Probably marked maps and a table for distances and times.
I’m not keen on the idea of writing 100 and odd miles of tulip diagrams!
Some advice please, The targa car I bought doesn't have anything to change a wheel so I'm looking for a full kit.
Is a tork wrench gun a bit overkill for targas? Would a simple X cross wrench be enough?
Looking at a sissor jack or this maybe? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-HSJ07-700kg-Hydrau...
Any recommendations would be great!
Is a tork wrench gun a bit overkill for targas? Would a simple X cross wrench be enough?
Looking at a sissor jack or this maybe? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-HSJ07-700kg-Hydrau...
Any recommendations would be great!
Changing a wheel on a test on a Targa is almost certainly going to get you a test maximum anyway, so as long as you can do it reasonably quickly and safely it should be enough.
That said, it’s probably worth getting an impact driver ( wouldn’t t get a torque wrench)
A decent stable Jack is essential.
That said, it’s probably worth getting an impact driver ( wouldn’t t get a torque wrench)
A decent stable Jack is essential.
I competed for the first time in a Targa at Bath Targa and it was fantastic. Hoping to get an entry for Kemble Targa later this month.
I did a little write up of Bath Festival:
https://www.slipandgripautomotive.co.uk/bont-rally...
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