2024 WRC and ERC discussion
Discussion
flatlandsman said:
For goodness sake, "we are desperate to make changes but have blind fear that any one of these manufacturers will quit of we do too much"
Have some bloody balls, forget them, they are only interested in selling crap cars not your series, do something revolutionary instead of having pathological fear of losing manufacturers that are only there to serve their interests not anybody elses, even their customers, who they just want to fleece.
Skoda have done more for their image building 500+ R5 cars that have sold all over the world than Hyundai have in 10 or so years of spending hundreds of millions in WRC,
Indeed.Have some bloody balls, forget them, they are only interested in selling crap cars not your series, do something revolutionary instead of having pathological fear of losing manufacturers that are only there to serve their interests not anybody elses, even their customers, who they just want to fleece.
Skoda have done more for their image building 500+ R5 cars that have sold all over the world than Hyundai have in 10 or so years of spending hundreds of millions in WRC,
The WRC would be so much better off if Toyota and Hyundai were to just bugger off....thereby killing off that category completely.
ArnageWRC said:
But they do very little proper promotion - that's why we have so few manufacturers.......and the least interest of motorsport fans.
Just look on here, Autosport, Ten Tenths - the rallying sections are nearly always the least busy......They're not doing their job.
It's crazy when you think about it. There is no motorsport more exciting, nor as accessible to fans as rallying. The action on the stages is as good as it ever was and the amateur coverage and compilations put the official efforts to shame. Just look on here, Autosport, Ten Tenths - the rallying sections are nearly always the least busy......They're not doing their job.
Fascinated to read an interview with Kalle earlier.
A large part of him taking some time out is due to the amount of studying he had to do for each rally both before the event and especially during recce.
There is a limit obviously on how many times you can recce, but no limit on how many times you can watch the footage so the top crews just sit there for hours on end watching said footage and learning as much as they can while adjusting pace notes. That seems a pathetic, awful waste of peoples time, and it really needs to be ironed out, maybe you could prevent cameras being in cars somehow?
A large part of him taking some time out is due to the amount of studying he had to do for each rally both before the event and especially during recce.
There is a limit obviously on how many times you can recce, but no limit on how many times you can watch the footage so the top crews just sit there for hours on end watching said footage and learning as much as they can while adjusting pace notes. That seems a pathetic, awful waste of peoples time, and it really needs to be ironed out, maybe you could prevent cameras being in cars somehow?
flatlandsman said:
...A large part of him taking some time out is due to the amount of studying he had to do for each rally both before the event and especially during recce.
There is a limit obviously on how many times you can recce, but no limit on how many times you can watch the footage so the top crews just sit there for hours on end watching said footage and learning as much as they can while adjusting pace notes. That seems a pathetic, awful waste of peoples time, and it really needs to be ironed out, maybe you could prevent cameras being in cars somehow?
Would you advocate a ban on F1 simulators as well?There is a limit obviously on how many times you can recce, but no limit on how many times you can watch the footage so the top crews just sit there for hours on end watching said footage and learning as much as they can while adjusting pace notes. That seems a pathetic, awful waste of peoples time, and it really needs to be ironed out, maybe you could prevent cameras being in cars somehow?
Oh yes, and while you're campaigning - add WEC simulators - oh and maybe testing?
You'd also have a fight with WRC+ (or who ever it is that's broadcasting these days) and a number of subscribers around the world who watch the live coverage.
Every competitor will want to gain an advantage and for most that's a legitimate way of improving their notes - there's also the post event analysis in the teams. You do know it takes place at all levels of competition and in many disciplines. You can get footage of many rally stages to go with notes, not just WRC.
I think you are not comparing apples with apples. What I am talking about here is watching recce footage umpteen times to make sure the notes are perfect and also possibly learn the stages. I remember Elfyn talking about it years ago and being slightly shocked back then, it seems a highly obvious way of almost cheating!!
Is this really what rallying is supposed to be about?
Learning a race track is a very, very different thing, and that to me is blindingly obvious, sorry. Learning say 10 stages by heart is possibly even against the spirit of rallying in some ways!
But my main point here, is that WRC have lost their world champion as he has the balls to say I don't want to spend hours on end doing this, I am a young lad, have other interests and this is a waste of my life.
I applaud the lad, but I also wish in some ways he would speak out more against it, but he is still rallying and employed and contracted no doubt to not go overboard with criticisms
Is this really what rallying is supposed to be about?
Learning a race track is a very, very different thing, and that to me is blindingly obvious, sorry. Learning say 10 stages by heart is possibly even against the spirit of rallying in some ways!
But my main point here, is that WRC have lost their world champion as he has the balls to say I don't want to spend hours on end doing this, I am a young lad, have other interests and this is a waste of my life.
I applaud the lad, but I also wish in some ways he would speak out more against it, but he is still rallying and employed and contracted no doubt to not go overboard with criticisms
In the current iteration of the WRC we get the same events year on year, with the most of the same stages year on year; occasionally they may slightly change some stages, or change a stage layout - there might be a change at a junction, and go elsewhere, but old notes can be changed.
It's the march of technology, I'm not sure anything can be done......
There used to be a saying about the differences between a racing driver and a rally driver. "A race driver sees the same corner 50-60 times a race, whereas a rally driver sees 50-60 corners only once". It's not quite like that anymore with repeated stages and video recce/analysis......
It's the march of technology, I'm not sure anything can be done......
There used to be a saying about the differences between a racing driver and a rally driver. "A race driver sees the same corner 50-60 times a race, whereas a rally driver sees 50-60 corners only once". It's not quite like that anymore with repeated stages and video recce/analysis......
I would say the fact that a young lad, and the reigning and double world champion is taking some time away from the sport as a result largely of this is a huge danger sign.
Something surely has to be done, sitting there watching the same clips tens of times is no way for anyone to have to live!
Something surely has to be done, sitting there watching the same clips tens of times is no way for anyone to have to live!
It's been like that for years, nothing new.
They are professionals trying to win a professional sport and that is just part of the prep that is needed to be competitive, along with testing car setups etc. I can't think of any practical way to police rules about how many times drivers watch videos of a stage, and if they think it gives an advantage they will do it.
People say 'it wasn't like that in the good old days' but back then some rallies had unlimited recce and some drivers would spend weeks driving stages tens of times (if not more) before a rally memorising as much as they could, it's not all that different.
I'd say there is far more to Kalle's taking a part-time year than just being sick of video prep for rallies! Testing, media duties, sponsor events etc, it all adds up and it can't be an easy life. I've also read speculation that he is going to do his Finnish National Service which would be very difficult to work around a full-time WRC season.
They are professionals trying to win a professional sport and that is just part of the prep that is needed to be competitive, along with testing car setups etc. I can't think of any practical way to police rules about how many times drivers watch videos of a stage, and if they think it gives an advantage they will do it.
People say 'it wasn't like that in the good old days' but back then some rallies had unlimited recce and some drivers would spend weeks driving stages tens of times (if not more) before a rally memorising as much as they could, it's not all that different.
I'd say there is far more to Kalle's taking a part-time year than just being sick of video prep for rallies! Testing, media duties, sponsor events etc, it all adds up and it can't be an easy life. I've also read speculation that he is going to do his Finnish National Service which would be very difficult to work around a full-time WRC season.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 12th January 23:00
Even at a lesser level notes prep and recceing can get tiring.
Generally during the week before each BTRDA/SRC event (on bought route notes) I spend 4 hours on the DVD. Mull was 4 days of recceing for us this year. RAC was at least 2 hours a night every night in the 2 and a bit weeks beforehand and that wasn't as thorough as I felt needed.
At quick count that's approx 120 hours last year just spent on laptop and notes.
Would I want to compete at WRC level... not so sure.
For the guys in the WRC it really is a full time job, and a life on the road.
Generally during the week before each BTRDA/SRC event (on bought route notes) I spend 4 hours on the DVD. Mull was 4 days of recceing for us this year. RAC was at least 2 hours a night every night in the 2 and a bit weeks beforehand and that wasn't as thorough as I felt needed.
At quick count that's approx 120 hours last year just spent on laptop and notes.
Would I want to compete at WRC level... not so sure.
For the guys in the WRC it really is a full time job, and a life on the road.
https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/01/15/kalle-ro...
Sportscar debut for Kalle Rovanpera in the Fuji 24 Hours......
Sportscar debut for Kalle Rovanpera in the Fuji 24 Hours......
Monte starts tomorrow!
Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
confucuis said:
Monte starts tomorrow!
Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
Today! Looking forward to the evening stages later on. Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
confucuis said:
Monte starts tomorrow!
Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
M sport either employ some aces but stay at home because they can't afford to compete, or employ some rookies with cash and turn up to go rallying. Either way the end result is the same.Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
confucuis said:
Monte starts tomorrow!
Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
M sport either employ some aces but stay at home because they can't afford to compete, or employ some rookies with cash and turn up to go rallying. Either way the end result is the same.Looks like no snow/ice this year, Tanak was quickest in the shakedown but was very close with Evans and Neuville.
Pity Msport have backed themselves into a corner with their driver selection, a bit like Citroen did a few years ago. Maybe if they kept Breen instead of getting rid of him for Loubet (who they've also dumped this year) they might at least have one driver capable of podiums.
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