2024 WRC and ERC discussion
Discussion
greeny12 said:
I always felt the R-GT category was a real lost opportunity for WRC....
And the ASNs - think what would've happened if the DAM AM Vantage and Tuthill GT3 had been given 'proper' opportunities. I'm thinking some of these 110s across Epynt, the Jim Clark or Manx.Maybe Protyre should put a GT class in their tarmac championship?
Back to the action for this weekend - I'm out on the Hills Ford (3 Shires) this weekend.
I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
Ranger 6 said:
Back to the action for this weekend - I'm out on the Hills Ford (3 Shires) this weekend.
I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
Out on the Hill Rally then the Trackrod and Mull. I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
Ranger 6 said:
Back to the action for this weekend - I'm out on the Hills Ford (3 Shires) this weekend.
I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
Good luck with all that! I'll not be on Mull this year, for various reasons. I can follow nicely online tho I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
Nice full entry tho, and a proper route format!
greeny12 said:
I always felt the R-GT category was a real lost opportunity for WRC. Never promoted, never part of the TV packages despite the spectacular nature of the cars, it was basically an unwatered sapling allowed to wither.
I loved watching Delecour hammer that 911 - but had to seek out YouTube to catch any of it. These Alpine R-GTs appear in number in the Monte, not that you'd ever know from the official coverage!
Not just in WRC, but in national rallying too, albeit with “national rallying type regs” rather than FIA R-GT homologation. Cars like Boxsters, Nissan 350Z, 911 (996) etc can be quite accessible (within reason)I loved watching Delecour hammer that 911 - but had to seek out YouTube to catch any of it. These Alpine R-GTs appear in number in the Monte, not that you'd ever know from the official coverage!
ArnageWRC said:
Neuville has gone about this season extremely well; and has got to grips with the new points system, and how to 'milk' it. He finished 2nd, and took one point less than Ogier, and comfortably outscored Tanak & Evans......
I don't think he, or the other full timers expected Ogier to do so many rounds as a 'part timer'; and with the benefit of road order has scored big points - and is now a genuine title threat.
I'm hoping Neuville can actually seal the deal this time; otherwise having a 'part timer' winning the WRC would be pretty damning......
Despite what others might say, I wholeheartedly agree with this perspective.I don't think he, or the other full timers expected Ogier to do so many rounds as a 'part timer'; and with the benefit of road order has scored big points - and is now a genuine title threat.
I'm hoping Neuville can actually seal the deal this time; otherwise having a 'part timer' winning the WRC would be pretty damning......
Both Ogier’s and Rovenpera’s WRC’s results and championships speak for themselves, but them being “part time” drivers, when the majority of the WRC contenders contest every round, devalues the WRC to my mind.
If you want to enter/register as a driver in the WRC, you should be obliged to take part in all rounds. This is after all the premier class in the world, and I can’t imagine the likes of Hamilton, Verstappen et all “opting out” of various rounds.
In fact I think the FIA should actively deter both teams AND drivers from this modus operandi, and if that means the drivers can’t earn bonus points on Sunday, nor Powerstage points, nor do they get the option to restart the event under Rally 2 rules in the event of crashing/mechanical failure on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, so be it.
Put bluntly, if the likes of Ogier wants to do a part tine WRC campaign, tough, let some of the young guns have the seat instead.
Fingers crossed here too that Neuville can win the championship this year.
Slippydiff said:
Despite what others might say, I wholeheartedly agree with this perspective.
Both Ogier’s and Rovenpera’s WRC’s results and championships speak for themselves, but them being “part time” drivers, when the majority of the WRC contenders contest every round, devalues the WRC to my mind.
If you want to enter/register as a driver in the WRC, you should be obliged to take part in all rounds. This is after all the premier class in the world, and I can’t imagine the likes of Hamilton, Verstappen et all “opting out” of various rounds.
In fact I think the FIA should actively deter both teams AND drivers from this modus operandi, and if that means the drivers can’t earn bonus points on Sunday, nor Powerstage points, nor do they get the option to restart the event under Rally 2 rules in the event of crashing/mechanical failure on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, so be it.
Put bluntly, if the likes of Ogier wants to do a part tine WRC campaign, tough, let some of the young guns have the seat instead.
Fingers crossed here too that Neuville can win the championship this year.
That’s the biggest load of push I’ve seen written about the subject this year. Well done.Both Ogier’s and Rovenpera’s WRC’s results and championships speak for themselves, but them being “part time” drivers, when the majority of the WRC contenders contest every round, devalues the WRC to my mind.
If you want to enter/register as a driver in the WRC, you should be obliged to take part in all rounds. This is after all the premier class in the world, and I can’t imagine the likes of Hamilton, Verstappen et all “opting out” of various rounds.
In fact I think the FIA should actively deter both teams AND drivers from this modus operandi, and if that means the drivers can’t earn bonus points on Sunday, nor Powerstage points, nor do they get the option to restart the event under Rally 2 rules in the event of crashing/mechanical failure on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, so be it.
Put bluntly, if the likes of Ogier wants to do a part tine WRC campaign, tough, let some of the young guns have the seat instead.
Fingers crossed here too that Neuville can win the championship this year.
An alternative view point is that if Neuville the full time no1 driver of Hyundai cannot beat a part timer whomever he may be, he doesn’t deserve to win the championship at all.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
That’s the biggest load of push I’ve seen written about the subject this year. Well done.
An alternative view point is that if Neuville the full time no1 driver of Hyundai cannot beat a part timer whomever he may be, he doesn’t deserve to win the championship at all.
You’re welcome.An alternative view point is that if Neuville the full time no1 driver of Hyundai cannot beat a part timer whomever he may be, he doesn’t deserve to win the championship at all.
You’re are of course entitled to your opinion, but at least try and be civil whilst stating it.
thepawbroon said:
Ranger 6 said:
Back to the action for this weekend - I'm out on the Hills Ford (3 Shires) this weekend.
I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
Good luck with all that! I'll not be on Mull this year, for various reasons. I can follow nicely online tho I'd also been asked to help with the Yorkshire Hill Rally - good luck to Jon and his team for the first running of that event.
Then there's the Trackrod at the end of the month and Mull in October.
Are the usual suspects out again?
Graham, Duncan, will I see you out and about in the coming weeks?
Nice full entry tho, and a proper route format!
Trackrod - a good entry with 90 cars into Dalby on Friday night and the rest joining in on Saturday
Mull - yes, as you say, with a proper route the entries are back up which is a good sign.
And another which is one of my training events is the Cambrian - life is busy!
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Slippydiff said:
Despite what others might say, I wholeheartedly agree with this perspective.
Both Ogier’s and Rovenpera’s WRC’s results and championships speak for themselves, but them being “part time” drivers, when the majority of the WRC contenders contest every round, devalues the WRC to my mind.
If you want to enter/register as a driver in the WRC, you should be obliged to take part in all rounds. This is after all the premier class in the world, and I can’t imagine the likes of Hamilton, Verstappen et all “opting out” of various rounds.
In fact I think the FIA should actively deter both teams AND drivers from this modus operandi, and if that means the drivers can’t earn bonus points on Sunday, nor Powerstage points, nor do they get the option to restart the event under Rally 2 rules in the event of crashing/mechanical failure on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, so be it.
Put bluntly, if the likes of Ogier wants to do a part tine WRC campaign, tough, let some of the young guns have the seat instead.
Fingers crossed here too that Neuville can win the championship this year.
That’s the biggest load of push I’ve seen written about the subject this year. Well done.Both Ogier’s and Rovenpera’s WRC’s results and championships speak for themselves, but them being “part time” drivers, when the majority of the WRC contenders contest every round, devalues the WRC to my mind.
If you want to enter/register as a driver in the WRC, you should be obliged to take part in all rounds. This is after all the premier class in the world, and I can’t imagine the likes of Hamilton, Verstappen et all “opting out” of various rounds.
In fact I think the FIA should actively deter both teams AND drivers from this modus operandi, and if that means the drivers can’t earn bonus points on Sunday, nor Powerstage points, nor do they get the option to restart the event under Rally 2 rules in the event of crashing/mechanical failure on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, so be it.
Put bluntly, if the likes of Ogier wants to do a part tine WRC campaign, tough, let some of the young guns have the seat instead.
Fingers crossed here too that Neuville can win the championship this year.
An alternative view point is that if Neuville the full time no1 driver of Hyundai cannot beat a part timer whomever he may be, he doesn’t deserve to win the championship at all.
I think part time drives should be allowed but running a "super sub" system is BS and anyone not entered for the full championship shouldn't be allowed to score manufacturer points (you'd probably need to have a backstop of say starting at least 70% of the stages over the year to prevent anyone entering full time then sacking off half the season).
The sooner that Rally1 is scrapped and Rally2 is promoted the better. Its the only way to force the championship into a position where you can guarantee 30 plus starters each round. At that point it makes no difference if Manufacturers step away because the entries will be there with or without them.
Captain Obvious said:
I think part time drives should be allowed but running a "super sub" system is BS and anyone not entered for the full championship shouldn't be allowed to score manufacturer points (you'd probably need to have a backstop of say starting at least 70% of the stages over the year to prevent anyone entering full time then sacking off half the season).
I don't really agree, there is some good excitement and unpredictability to be gained from 'sub' drivers even if not the same degree as the past where they would bring in 'specialists' for different surfaces. Look at ERC for example where local drivers only doing one or two rounds can mix it up with the top contenders on their home turf, but it is still consistency across the whole season that decides championship results.I understand the downside where teams may use part-time drivers to manipulate road order advantage (though that can be very weather dependent too), but with the current limited seats I find it more interesting to have varied drivers than just the same small handful of drivers every time.
Captain Obvious said:
The sooner that Rally1 is scrapped and Rally2 is promoted the better. Its the only way to force the championship into a position where you can guarantee 30 plus starters each round. At that point it makes no difference if Manufacturers step away because the entries will be there with or without them.
That may be part of the reason the manufacturer teams are so opposed to it, they want to be the centre of attention and don't want privateer teams being able to compete on a relatively even footing. 
In general I agree though, I've been finding ERC more interesting than WRC this year with much bigger competitive fields and close margins.
WRC too often ends up with only 2 or 3 cars close enough to battle for the overall result and the rest playing it safe most of the rally to try for powerstage points at the end which are worth more than a sustained push for the next position.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 26th September 23:08
GravelBen said:
Captain Obvious said:
I think part time drives should be allowed but running a "super sub" system is BS and anyone not entered for the full championship shouldn't be allowed to score manufacturer points (you'd probably need to have a backstop of say starting at least 70% of the stages over the year to prevent anyone entering full time then sacking off half the season).
I don't really agree, there is some good excitement and unpredictability to be gained from 'sub' drivers even if not the same degree as the past where they would bring in 'specialists' for different surfaces. Look at ERC for example where local drivers only doing one or two rounds can mix it up with the top contenders on their home turf, but it is still consistency across the whole season that decides championship results.I understand the downside where teams may use part-time drivers to manipulate road order advantage (though that can be very weather dependent too), but with the current limited seats I find it more interesting to have varied drivers than just the same small handful of drivers every time.
GravelBen said:
Captain Obvious said:
The sooner that Rally1 is scrapped and Rally2 is promoted the better. Its the only way to force the championship into a position where you can guarantee 30 plus starters each round. At that point it makes no difference if Manufacturers step away because the entries will be there with or without them.
That may be part of the reason the manufacturer teams are so opposed to it, they want to be the centre of attention and don't want privateer teams being able to compete on a relatively even footing. In general I agree though, I've been finding ERC more interesting than WRC this year with much bigger competitive fields and close margins.
WRC too often ends up with only 2 or 3 cars close enough to battle for the overall result and the rest playing it safe most of the rally to try for powerstage points at the end which are worth more than a sustained push for the next position.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 26th September 23:08
Knowing how incompetent the WRC organisers are they'll probably scrap Rally2 and make Rally1 full electric lol.
Captain Obvious said:
...I'd rather the whole issue goes away and they just scrap Rally1 and go for Rally2 with a bigger diameter restrictor and longer suspension travel.
I agree with you on that one, even just more power without extra suspension travel or aero - I guess there is always a compromise between being exciting to watch vs surviving the rougher rallies vs being relatable to production cars (among other factors).Captain Obvious said:
Knowing how incompetent the WRC organisers are they'll probably scrap Rally2 and make Rally1 full electric lol.
I wish you were wrong!I saw an interview from one of the recent WRC rallies with some rally management type (I can't remember if they were from FIA or one of the teams) who started talking about how Rally2 is wrong and not sustainable and how they should be making it custom spaceframe like Rally1 instead of production based... to me that just revealed how woefully out of touch they are with fans and grass-roots rallying. Nearly everyone I've discussed it with wants rallying to be more production based, not less!
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