RE: Official: 2022 INEOS Grenadier priced from £49k

[thewarlock]

300bhp/ton said:

Plenty of personal comments come my way too. And have you actually read some of the comments? I'm sure if it wasn't for hiding behind keyboards, most of those people would not say the same things in person.

Perhaps stop and consider why that is? Is it everyone else that's out of line? Probably not.

[Matt_T]

It needs to have an LDV badge on it - reminds me of those rebadged Freight Rovers.

Back in about 1985 my dad had a Sherpa Kombi which I always believed was the first MPV. In comical British Leyland quality control fasion it had Kombi written on the side doors and Combi written on the boot - same badge with different spelling.

[Rumblestripe]

I always find snorkels on pristine polished vehicles amusing (I'm sad like that). So that's funny.

Quite like the interior, though I'd rather the seats were low back and more "sluiceable", the exterior is what it is. I'm not in the market, nor do I want to be, so couldn't comment on whether its worth £50k and as I struggle to think of a boggo hatch as worth more than £5k my opinion on such matters is moot.

[BigChiefmuffinAgain]

Digga said:

jason61c said:

Andeh1 said:

£49k for that, when for 5% more you could have a Defender which does everything the Grenadier does, but in vastly more comfort, refinement, luxury, economy, safety and style. You'd have to really really hate yourself to opt out of that.....

I just love it, in a sort of so bad you can't help but watch sort of way.....

Edited by Andeh1 on Friday 29th April 12:38

on a defender, no 5 year warranty, not the same 'look/feel', not the same thing. New defender is more old discovery.

One of the variables none of us know, yet, is whether Ineos can build these with more reliability and resillience than LR products. Right now, our (just) 1 year old Discover Sport P300 Hybrid is in it's third week at the dealer's, awaiting a new wiring harness...

Every manufacturer has problems and right now even Porsche are building the odd, dud Taycan, because of the disruption to supply and production caused by the pandemic and also now Ukraine, but LR have had a poor reputation for a while. If the grenadier can be nailed together as well as a Land Cruiser, it will surely develop a following?

I've spent many years working in manufacturing, though not automotive. The general rule is the more experience you have in it ( and we're talking about decades here ) and the higher the volumes, the better. If it is a relatively simple product, even better. And all this depends on a product which has been developed by people who have a lot of experience in developing these products, and a purchasing team who have a lot of experience in negotiating and spec'ing components to tight tolerances, and a QA team who know how to check all these things. And it all has to be lead by a management team who are committed to achieving high quality - it usually comes at great cost in the early days as a lot of potentially costly mistakes have to be rectified or waived thru. And still, after many many years of trying, a lot of companies don't manage it. Potentially like JLR over the years.

The chances of INEOS hitting the ground with high quality/reliability are, IMHO, very slim...

[Tomanybikes]

thewarlock said:

300bhp/ton said:

Plenty of personal comments come my way too. And have you actually read some of the comments? I'm sure if it wasn't for hiding behind keyboards, most of those people would not say the same things in person.

Perhaps stop and consider why that is? Is it everyone else that's out of line? Probably not.

Are you buying one?

[DonkeyApple]

Slowlygettingit said:

DonkeyApple said:

DanL said:

Do they have some sort of a tie-in with Belstaff?

Same owner.

And apparently Belstaff doesn’t make any money either….

If its a U.K. company then they might not want it to. A lot of these fashion firms, like the restaurant industry run offshore intermediaries to source goods. Ie, the item costs you £5 to buy but you buy it through a Luxembourg intermediary. That intermediary sells it to the U.K. business for £15, booking a £10 tax free profit. The U.K. business then sells it for £20 but books a load of legitimate costs so actually losses money on each sale which means it not only pays no tax but can build up losses which can be used to offset taxes elsewhere.

Who knows but when an owner is offshore the U.K. Ltd often doesn't portray the real business.

[jason61c]

braddo said:

jason61c said:

Maybe i live in the real world, I don't think the figures, on the new way of testing and reporting figures are too bad.

It looks like 30mpg+ on a run, given most defenders struggle to do mid 20's, a hilux averages about 27mpg in mixed use, its not out there.

Nice cherry picking

I didn't mention cherry pickers? if you want one of those a unimog might be better?

[Digga]

DonkeyApple said:

Slowlygettingit said:

DonkeyApple said:

DanL said:

Do they have some sort of a tie-in with Belstaff?

Same owner.

And apparently Belstaff doesn’t make any money either….

If its a U.K. company then they might not want it to. A lot of these fashion firms, like the restaurant industry run offshore intermediaries to source goods. Ie, the item costs you £5 to buy but you buy it through a Luxembourg intermediary. That intermediary sells it to the U.K. business for £15, booking a £10 tax free profit. The U.K. business then sells it for £20 but books a load of legitimate costs so actually losses money on each sale which means it not only pays no tax but can build up losses which can be used to offset taxes elsewhere.

Who knows but when an owner is offshore the U.K. Ltd often doesn't portray the real business.

See Amazon's UK operations for info.

[LankyFreak]

Water Fairy said:

Shouldn't you be at school?

Very good left school a year early but I think I'd be out by now anyway...

[jason61c]

cidered77 said:

jason61c said:

Numeric said:

One big question has to be the MPG. I mean of course it will be poor, but are we thinking Hilux 30 ish MPG for the diesel variant or 20.

So I'm a sucker for this kind of thing, but have always stopped my Hilux itch when confronted by a higher than normal mileage and the cost of fuel. OK for companies that offset tax, but if as some say it will be the hunter welly brigade in the UK going for these - well huge fuel consumption may be off putting? While range in more out of the way places on the planet may also be an issue I guess?

Maybe i live in the real world, I don't think the figures, on the new way of testing and reporting figures are too bad.

It looks like 30mpg+ on a run, given most defenders struggle to do mid 20's, a hilux averages about 27mpg in mixed use, its not out there.

My D250 has a Trip A set to the car's lifetime of 6,200 miles, and i checked it yesterday out of interest - 31.6mpg. It doesn't struggle to do mid 20s at all in diesel form.

JLR and reliability yes yes (worst thing about owning a JLR product is someone hillariously saying "has it broken down yet")... mine hasn't put a foot wrong, and do we have data on the new Defender yet to conclude anything? JLR figures generally shocking, yes, but in that new factory beyond the grumbles you'd expect from some first-out-of-the blocks new cars, haven't heard anything too terrifying...

These guys however are starting from zero, and i don't buy the "it's so simple" argument so much either - that's still a modern, complex powertrain that needs to be packaged, and a whole parts supply and service network to build from scratch. McLaren showed that isn't very easy regardless of how smart your people are...

Don't wish any ill of this thing, but just don't see where the sales are coming from....

sorry, I meant the last 'proper' defender, which I think the INEOS is taking aim at. I don't think a 6 cylinder 4wd, car doing 28ish is bad going.

[J210]

It annoys me massively when companies show of a new car with specs and still use different items than you will actually get.

The wheels on the fieldmaster are the 19s and you get the 18s

[Bobtherallyfan]

Andeh1 said:

£49k for that, when for 5% more you could have a Defender which does everything the Grenadier does, but in vastly more comfort, refinement, luxury, economy, safety and style….

…..until it gets struck by the curse of LR reliability….

[Macboy]

300bhp/ton said:

A.J.M said:

£49k for that…

So much for it being a £30k 300tdi 110 replacement like the new defender haters were dreaming of.

Isn't it only the Ineos haters and Pretender fanboys touting this. Nobody actually interested in the Grenadier has ever mentioned anything along those lines.

it was literally what Ratcliff said at the start of the project. No-nonsense, rugged, affordable off-roader for those with no replacement for their current vehicle (ie an old Defender) with a target price of £30k. Thee's a video knocking about of him saying it and early interviews with him and management repeat this. It's not made-up, it was the original - now long forgotten - mission.

[valiant]

I want to like this but there’s just something that makes me think ‘Hmmmmmm’.

The exterior is good, I like a lot of it. The front seems a bit Jimmy Hill with the jutting out grill but it’s a good homage to the original. The interior? Well it’s a game of two halves as far as I’m concerned. The chunky switchgear looks fab and some thought has gone into it but the centre vents panel and obligatory touch screen looks out of place and the gear selector looks ste. It’s as if they had three teams designing the interior and they never met until the last day.

Needs a proper binnacle for the gauges but I suppose what they’ve done is to aid left/right hand drive conversions. The materials used on top of the dash seem a wheelie-binesque in quality but that could just be the photos.

The price is, erm, challenging. £52k plus a few grand on options is serious money. I can only really see these going to private individuals (unless Ineos have done some uber cheap deal with large fleet buyers) as companies will only look at the bottom line and will go with what does the most job for the least money and couldn’t give a stuff about employee comfort or wheel articulation.

Toyota of LR will not be losing any sleep with the Grenadier entering the market and I doubt we’ll be seeing them in war zones with ‘UN’ written on the side anytime soon.

Wish them well, but I fear it will be a novelty to see them on the roads.

[DonkeyApple]

Can it be air dropped?

[Digga]

DonkeyApple said:

Can it be air dropped?

On an iPhone, Buck Rogers?

[GAFF1974]

It's many things but British isn't one of them

[Truckosaurus]

I suspect they wouldn't sell that many less if they doubled the price - the bling crowd might even be more likely to buy one if it was priced closer the the 125k the G-wagen starts at.

[anonymous-user]

WTF seriously that looks absolutely terrible. Who do they imagine the market is?

[ChevronB19]

I liked the idea of it, but even though I’m not in the game as it were, at that price point I’d buy a defender commercial over one of these. It should’ve been at least 10k cheaper than the cheapest defender (grumble grumble etc).