KITCAR DESIGN sketches/concepts year 2008-10

KITCAR DESIGN sketches/concepts year 2008-10

Author
Discussion

seansverige

719 posts

112 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
Right: read the thread from the start, plus the others Italo put me on to has given me a fair bit to digest and think about. I've tried to be brief as possible but there's a lot to cover; basically I'd like to identify topics areas of interest and start threads as necessary.

Aside from the cars the industry should be making, the major theme that emerged was quality: quality in terms of exterior / interior design, in terms of fit and finish, NVH, ease of build, customer support. This is obviously a huge topic, so if of interest I suggest it's broken down into specific areas.

Of course I still want to debate cars the industry should be making: clearly there is no single car - but if we defined a few basic briefs, would it be fun to knock about some proposals? Unfortunately most of the pics have been lost from the older posts but gotta admit am dead curious about Murtaya Coupe referred to in this thread....

Clearly vehicle exterior / interior design is my obsession, and within that subject there specific topics to discuss - maybe only of interest to Italo & myself wink
- debate about design themes: retro vs. radical etc
- kitcar cues: in the derogatory sense what marks out a kitcar - for example large, flat panel with bullseye lights mounted arbitrarily on it with no attendent form
..and on the flip side
- where do kitcars have the edge over the big boys?

I think there's a big difference between the cars we'd like to see developed and those that will actually be developed: from a rational point of view it's very hard to argue against an Exo. It was that thought that drove the rebody idea; but there are a few gaping flaws - it assumes a skillset (exterior/ interior design) that has not historically been an industry strong suit (to put it mildy tongue out ); buying in the requisite expertise is an additional cost over and above the development and tooling costs; Exos don't have niceties such doors, windows etc., which limits the kind of rebody you can propose without structural changes: more cost.

With regard to that last point - are there ways to mitigate development costs? The Strathcarron has spawned some descendents. Acquiring a set of TVR moulds is a pipedream but whatever happened to the FBS Census? By all accounts, it quality of engineering was inversely related to it's beauty - therefore surely crying out for a rebody? (is the FBS Census itself worthy of debate?). What other 'lost' cars are there?

Aside from the car, what else is commonly missed? Customer service seems to have cropped up more than once - can we cite examples (no names, no pack drill). Marketing generally but I'm gobsmacked how underutilised the interweb is - and given how much you can get for free, the only thing it will cost is time.

Hobby vs. Dayjob: a couple of interesting conversations over the summer seemed to indicate that for many of makers, kits were not the main breadwinner but a sideline. IF we accept that, what are the knock on effects - I would guess low risk, low cost approach to development >> another seven or exo

If kits do pay the bills, what unexploited non-traditional niches & markets are there? What about Max Power generation - are panel kits the way to go: surely this is only a step or two on from a full Wings West or Erebuni bodykit? Export markets: small British sportscars are loved all over the world, how easy is to sell to export markets. Have the Hoppa & Jester, etc. found sales as holiday buggies on the Med? Has anyone heard of a Bradley (I think that's the name)? Basically American made buggy for use on industrial sites, not much to it, lead acid batteries - that'll be £20k(!) please sir.

State of the nation: what is the perception of the current health of the industry? Could there ever be another Dutton or has the landscape fundamentally shifted?

fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,550 posts

199 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
seansverige said:
Off topic, but Jenson did it!

Not a huge Button fan but been getting really sick of the 'does he deserve the championship' non-story and glad he sealed the deal in fine style.

Back to my homework....
congratulations to him.......smile


fuoriserie

Original Poster:

4,550 posts

199 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
seansverige said:
Right: read the thread from the start, plus the others Italo put me on to has given me a fair bit to digest and think about. I've tried to be brief as possible but there's a lot to cover; basically I'd like to identify topics areas of interest and start threads as necessary.

Aside from the cars the industry should be making, the major theme that emerged was quality: quality in terms of exterior / interior design, in terms of fit and finish, NVH, ease of build, customer support. This is obviously a huge topic, so if of interest I suggest it's broken down into specific areas.

Of course I still want to debate cars the industry should be making: clearly there is no single car - but if we defined a few basic briefs, would it be fun to knock about some proposals? Unfortunately most of the pics have been lost from the older posts but gotta admit am dead curious about Murtaya Coupe referred to in this thread....

Clearly vehicle exterior / interior design is my obsession, and within that subject there specific topics to discuss - maybe only of interest to Italo & myself wink
- debate about design themes: retro vs. radical etc
- kitcar cues: in the derogatory sense what marks out a kitcar - for example large, flat panel with bullseye lights mounted arbitrarily on it with no attendent form
..and on the flip side
- where do kitcars have the edge over the big boys?

I think there's a big difference between the cars we'd like to see developed and those that will actually be developed: from a rational point of view it's very hard to argue against an Exo. It was that thought that drove the rebody idea; but there are a few gaping flaws - it assumes a skillset (exterior/ interior design) that has not historically been an industry strong suit (to put it mildy tongue out ); buying in the requisite expertise is an additional cost over and above the development and tooling costs; Exos don't have niceties such doors, windows etc., which limits the kind of rebody you can propose without structural changes: more cost.

With regard to that last point - are there ways to mitigate development costs? The Strathcarron has spawned some descendents. Acquiring a set of TVR moulds is a pipedream but whatever happened to the FBS Census? By all accounts, it quality of engineering was inversely related to it's beauty - therefore surely crying out for a rebody? (is the FBS Census itself worthy of debate?). What other 'lost' cars are there?

Aside from the car, what else is commonly missed? Customer service seems to have cropped up more than once - can we cite examples (no names, no pack drill). Marketing generally but I'm gobsmacked how underutilised the interweb is - and given how much you can get for free, the only thing it will cost is time.

Hobby vs. Dayjob: a couple of interesting conversations over the summer seemed to indicate that for many of makers, kits were not the main breadwinner but a sideline. IF we accept that, what are the knock on effects - I would guess low risk, low cost approach to development >> another seven or exo

If kits do pay the bills, what unexploited non-traditional niches & markets are there? What about Max Power generation - are panel kits the way to go: surely this is only a step or two on from a full Wings West or Erebuni bodykit? Export markets: small British sportscars are loved all over the world, how easy is to sell to export markets. Have the Hoppa & Jester, etc. found sales as holiday buggies on the Med? Has anyone heard of a Bradley (I think that's the name)? Basically American made buggy for use on industrial sites, not much to it, lead acid batteries - that'll be £20k(!) please sir.

State of the nation: what is the perception of the current health of the industry? Could there ever be another Dutton or has the landscape fundamentally shifted?
I'm looking forward to working on and discussing new kitcar concepts in the coming months and hopefully we can come up with a few kitcar concepts.

I agree with you that we could split some of the discussions on different topics in the forum to make it easier for everyone to contribute their ideas and coments.

I know that there are quite a few designers lurking in here without posting, maybe this thread revival might get them to contribute thoughts, ideas and sketches for all of us to enjoy .

Maybe we should identify as you have pointed out in the post, what type of kitcar design is of interest for an intended and well identified potential niche.

Exo is going to be with us for the years to come, in various forms and concepts that have yet to be designed, but that could become an addition to the exhisting kits, in fact I have two concept that i would like to develop, an exo-coupe and an exo-buggy onto a mid -engine chassis.

I like rebodies and think that it could have some of the Max Power kids, but instead of using hatchbacks we could use Mazda Mx5's or Mr2 to create new bodies to fit.

Another niche that is almost absent is the 4x4 apart from a few well established kits, there is a lot that can be done, by rebodying Suzuki Sj or Vitara chassis, Land Rover Defenders or Discovery and so on.

There is another special niche that I've been working with a friend and that is the Amphibious kitcar niche.......

We could tackle every corner of the kitcar market and come up with so many different projects, but the only recomendation is to do it on exhisiting kitcar chassis, or regular manufactured chassis instead of starting from scratch.

The kitcar industry has so many chassis to offer and that we can play with, we just all need to create a pleasing body for them all........smile

Maybe we could divide the projects by proposing a few themes and have people decide what they would like to see developed as a design, out of a set of car design concepts.

We could also divide the projects by FWD concepts or RWD concept, 4x4 or 3 wheelers......

So much stuff to cover that we will still be here by Christmas 2009.......smile

Italo



Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 21st October 12:54

Joe T

487 posts

154 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
I really do think there would be a market for a good 4x4 body platform, but instead of making it fit just one chassis I would make it adaptable to fit a few, Nissan Patrol, G Wagon, the the Rover offerings.

I would do a standard, pickup, crew cab and various other versions.

There already some people out there making some nice bodies but most are replacments for classics.
http://www.realsteelcruiserparts.net/
http://cruisersolutions.com/index.php?main_page=pr...

Then theres Ibex of course which I believe have done quite well out of this marketplace.






Davi

17,151 posts

150 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
cymtriks said:
Each to their own.

I think that the simple round light is a technically simple, neat and visually clean feature. I also think that the current trend to "wacky" light designs is tacky.


it is a nice clean technically simple approach, it's also been done by almost every kit manufacture going, ever. It's almost a trade mark of kit cars, particularly those that couldn't be bothered to put much effort into the styling at the rear end.
cymtriks said:
A hole breaking out on two surfaces has got to be more difficult to get looking right and also more difficult to get out of the mould.

Your opinion that this is the easy route taken by lazy or skinflint manufacturers is just that, an opinion, which I don't share.
opinions will vary. Mine says a slab of mdf with some holes bored in it at plug making time is lazy, unimaginative and yes, quite possibly skinflint. One could argue that form over function dictates nothing more is needed, but then that is obviously ridiculous as everyone would be driving identical cars. Aesthetics are a very important part of vehicle design.

cymtriks said:
You don't give any indication of the size of your project.
Not my project, but by larger than a 7 I meant a full bodied car, pretty much anything, that is taller than a seven which this clearly is unless they are 10" wheels
cymtriks said:
If you have yet to start the buck you could get a head start by using a Fiat X1/9 or Toyota MR2 as the core of the buck. This way you have a ready made reference surface under the styling you add.
and that's just genius in it's simplicity hehe

cymtriks said:
Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
Most definitely agreeing - I'd never thought of that, it's brilliant.


Edited by Davi on Wednesday 21st October 15:36

Advertisement

Griffmonster

6 posts

104 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
Thanks to you all for your input. It is greatly appreciated. I'd also like to say congratulations to Jensen too! Well done! (but I'm sure he will not be reading this!)

Ok well I feel I have to justify why I have the audacity to think that I can run a company making kit cars. I've rewritten this several times because it just becomes an autobiography and I'm sure you all aren't interested in that. Suffice to say that I'm a total petrol head and love anything to do with engineering, motor racing and technology.

I live on the beautiful Isle of Anglesey, just outside of the village with the really long name, Llanfairpwllgwyngyll for short! I grew up in a very artistic and entrepreneurial family, my mum ran her own business for 15 years and my uncles used to run a large car spares company in Birmingham until they retired. I've been around kit cars for as long as I can remember. I went to uni and did a combined engineering and business management degree with an industrial placement at a specialist vehicle manufacture (airport crash tenders). I graduated right into the middle of the 90s recession and couldn't get a job in the auto industry. I went to work in the Production Planning department for a local contract manufacturing company which makes all sorts of electro-mechanical items from pyrotechnic hardware for the MOD to oil, water and thermostat assemblies for 60L Perkins generator engines. In 2001 the company acquired another company that made small DC electric motors and I moved over to the Sales department as a Sales Engineer liaising with customers and configuring products to meet their requirements. I left in 2007 and formed my company, Esargi Limited, in April 2008 and have been working on several product/projects ever since, the Seren being the one that is nearest completion.

Damn, still looks like a bio, at least I hope it isn't an obituary...



Griffmonster

6 posts

104 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
Moving on to more relevant subject matter...clap Esargi's ethos and the Seren

I'll be the first to admit I'm a jack of all trades and master of none. I'm coming at this as a business that designs, manufactures and markets kit cars, not a guy with a car design that has gone into business. In the end I hope that will result in a much stronger company for everyone's benefit.

The ethos of Esargi is to develop modern original design sports cars. There are some very good concepts designed by the larger manufactures and automotive design students that with a appropriate/suitable (affordable and usable) level of technology would make fantastic kit cars.

kennyrayandersen said:
Your car has flavors of this one (though introduced a few years ago, and maybe a bit of updating), which I thought was a good concept when it came out:
http://www.suzukiauto.com/about_suzuki/concepts/vi...
My opinion exactly and I have a Hot Wheels Suzuki GSX/R4 on my desk. bow

My vision is to end up with a facility that could take concept cars and make limited run turnkey cars, sort of a smaller version of Pininfarina or Karman. A lofty ambition but you have to have a goal to drive for.

So we have to start somewhere on this journey... a that is where the Seren comes in!

Griffmonster

6 posts

104 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
Now (finally) I'll try to answer the questions raised by my first post.

The Seren is intended as a practical sports car for fast road use. It is a 2 seater mid engined roadster. It is intended to be powered by 4 cylinder transverse engine. Initially this will be Ford Duratec or Zetec and Honda K20. It is of similar size to a Lotus Elise. The dimensions are:-

Length 3610mm (142.1in)
Width excluding mirrors 1733mm (68.2in)
Height 1111mm (43.7in)
Front Track 1524mm (60.0in)
Rear Track 1499mm (59.0in)
Wheelbase 2439mm (96.0in)
Ground clearance 125mm (4.9in)

The car is fully designed in CAD and the body styling done in 3D Studio Max. The suspension has been designed and optimised digitally to minimise camber change. It features unequal length double wishbones with outboard coil over shocks at each corner with custom uprights. The chassis is a specially designed spaceframe centre tub with front and rear sub frames. This is to enable different suspension designs, eg rocker arms or push rods to introduced at a later date. The engine frame can also be modified to accept different engines in the future. Although it is more complicated it does allow for greater options in the future without having to retool the main chassis jig.

Price range and intended market? Well it isn't going to be cheap. I'm aiming at mid market with a comprehensive kit price of around £10,000 ex-VAT. That should enable an on the road cost of £15,000 to £22,000 depending on specification.

The major areas of discussion regarding the body design appear to be rear lights and doors. My reasoning for showing you all development pictures is to get some feedback and see that I'm not totally off on the wrong tangent. I understand some people will not like what I've done.

All the lights are from the Hella catalogue and not car production items to avoid supply limitations. I've tried several different arrangements and the all look like something else. If I keep the small units but move them lower down it just looks like a Koenigsegg or Ascari. One big rear light is simple but seems a little plain and retro. There is a benefit however in that it works well with a mesh panel along the back of engine bay, releasing air thus helping cooling and provides a semi veiled view of the engine! Have a look at the rear of the Alfa Romeo Diva concept for example.



Doors. I feel that for the car to be taken seriously and be considered practical it has to have doors however much agro or hassle they cause. The first images of the Seren I showed people didn't have doors (they are a real pain to model and as soon as you start change the side shaping the edges go all wonky) and nearly the first thing everyone said was "it hasn't got doors". The ones on the current model were done in a hurry and I need to redo them properly. I also need to add a windscreen and I agree the headrest fairings need more work. Maybe a roll over bar similar to a Porsche Carrera GT would be welcomed?






seansverige

719 posts

112 months

Wednesday 21st October 2009
quotequote all
Griffmonster said:
...aren't interested in that
I am and I don't think I'm alone in that. At the very least it may help avoid miscommunication when one knows what background someone is coming from.

Griffmonster said:
...90s recession and couldn't get a job in the auto industry
Ditto - six months after my graduation a news item reported that if you under 25 you had a better chance of getting a job (in the general jobs market) without a degree frown

re: Suzuki GSX/R4 - had the same thought myself but wasn't sure how it'd be taken. Bravo - this approach should be used be more often: a lot of good potential is essentially wasted in a concept that hasn't a snowballs chance of seeing production.

Griffmonster said:
...practical sports car for fast road use
Please define practical in the context of the Seren; I'm not being facetious, would just like you to elaborate - what was the brief? Clearly protection from the elements isn't in scope but for example, is there space for a couple of overnight bags

From the description of your approach it seems well thought out, and you seem to be taking a long view - never a bad thing in my opinion, and you're serious in your intent too. Do you have any other images to show us, esp. rear three quarter?

Griffmonster said:
...everyone said was "it hasn't got doors"
LOL - you can't win. Doors will make ingress / egress more graceful, but given it's pared down nature you might get away without. My thinking was that their elimination would reduce your development effort, and allow you to get to market that much quicker - and your next model could be a sister with doors, full screen etc. If you stick with doors, there's some useful info on common problems with kitcar doors on some other threads.

Griffmonster said:
..first images of the Seren I showed people
Might it be worth starting a dedicated thread for the Seren or Escargi? I'd read it.

seansverige

719 posts

112 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
fuoriserie said:
what type of kitcar design is of interest
I'll set the ball rolling, my personal favourite is nothing original: 2 seater, coupe and convertible, with space for a coupla' weekend bags. There is a large fashion element in the small sports sector, and though handling and engineering clearly matter it's probably sufficient just to match your competitors in these regards if you have something unique to offer from a design perspective. I also think that kitcar customers would place higher premium on proper window & roof seals etc., than equipment levels. My first instinct is mid engined, but front engined has dominated the mainstream: MX-5, TT, Z3. Maybe BMW 3 (E36) donor?

fuoriserie said:
...we could use Mazda Mx5's or Mr2 to create new bodies to fit.
My thoughts exactly, and would further suggest the MGF and even Z3 as potential donors. In fact, the MX-5 already has a few rebody kits - does anyone know how the Retroforza et al is doing commercially? Which sparked another thought: there have been a couple of moans that kitcar makers don't want to invest in professional design input. In the mainstream industry, concept cars produced by design consultancies showcase their skills as their bread and butter work is cloaked in confidentiality: if you're a designer trying to break into this sector, is a panel kit is a good 'in'?

I am also conscious of the fact I am nothing more than an interested onlooker rather than industry participant, and panel kits are design content heavy and therefore limit the appeal of these discussions. There's also a lot less 'wiggle room' with panel kits: the earlier design phases are compressed and you have ramp up the detailed design sooner - at which point discussion at this level becomes impractical.

fuoriserie said:
...Amphibious kitcar
Somewhere I remember hearing someone (lol - could I be any more vague?) say it's easier to design a boat that drives than a car that floats - good luck!

fuoriserie said:
do it on existing kitcar chassis
With regards to the exterior / interior design projects, yes - but if possible I'd like to maybe discuss few things in the broader design context. The fact is that most manufacturers will continue to go it alone, and maybe a few hints and tips might help avoid some of the more common pitfalls.

This is partly what motivated the 'kitcar design cues' idea - not only do I want to identify bad habits, I'd like to propose alternative strategies. For example, in the case of the rear fascia panel, even if you're going to stick with standard bullseye lights, adding some form in the rear that dictates where the light is sited (e.g. maybe a simplified version of the Evora's tail) would look more production like. Designing out the possibility of incorrectly mounting lights might also help from an IVA point of view - it surely can't hurt.

Having said that, it might well be that the best way to try to sell design skills into the industry is rebodies: in which case Seven and Cobra based projects become the logical priorities; but they need to be strict rebodies, i.e. although some additional subframes to support the bodywork might be required, they shouldn't demand any significant modifications of the existing chassis. Might this also be a good point of entry for a design company? A Seven or Cobra rebody has many potential clients: the proposal could be developed to pretty refined level and upon a successful pitch, tailored to the specific chassis in the detailed design phase.

fuoriserie said:
...proposing a few themes
Agreed - we need to keep this manageable, but could treat as a live project. I propose we set a brief for each - a more detailed version of what I've stated above, but unless it's an intrinsic part of the car, e.g. trackday weapon, I think contributors can respond with any design theme (e.g. retro, radical, new E-Type, etc.) they think appropriate, as you've in fact done in the past; based on feedback a theme is then selected to further develop.

fuoriserie said:
divide the projects by FWD concepts or RWD concept, 4x4 or 3 wheelers..
Or, again in the interests of keeping this manageable, by building into the brief?



Re: supply limitations / continuity
I do think selecting any mainstream car guarantees sufficient supply, but am happy to concede that I might wrong. To address this, my thought was to identify cars with strong owner followings - owners clubs are quite often instrumental in ensuring continuity of supply. If we accept that hypothesis I would nominate the following: New Mini, Fiat 500, MX-5 & Smart ForTwo (for the lights more than the tiny engine and recalcitrant gearbox.) Any other suggestions?

Finally, a couple of general points: as we get into these debates terminology, frames of reference and priorities need to be clearly defined in order to minimise miscommunication. At this point, it's probably also worth noting that I am a loud, opinionated arse (doubtless many of you have already arrived at the same conclusion independently... smile ) who loves a good argument - as long as it doesn't get personal. I believe that something forged in debate is inherently stronger and the inverse of design-by-committee.

Edited by seansverige on Thursday 22 October 00:48

neilrallying

200 posts

153 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
"Of course I still want to debate cars the industry should be making: clearly there is no single car - but if we defined a few basic briefs, would it be fun to knock about some proposals? Unfortunately most of the pics have been lost from the older posts but gotta admit am dead curious about Murtaya Coupe referred to in this thread...."

We have pretty much finished the Coupe development and are planning on exhibiting a race car built on the new Coupe on our stand at Autosport International in January.

These images have never been publicly released before - so here is a first on this thread!

The small rear quarter light will obviously be separate to the door glass unlike that shown in the rendering. Also the fuel filler will be staying in the original location on the off side rear quarter rather than relocating to the pillar as in the image.

We will only be making 18 of these Coupe variants in 2010 and have started taking deposits against them as we have already been directly approached regarding the existance of the Coupe! The rumour mill has obviously been hard at work!!







As always interested to hear the opinions on here - although as it is now signed off I hope that the thoughts are mainly positive!

Neil.

fergiejames

4 posts

104 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
Hi Guys,
Thought I'd post some pictures of my finl year major project

Its called the Westfield GT and it is designed as the replacement for the GTM Libra now that GTM is owned by Pozenza Sportscars (Owners of Westfield)
It follows on from work I did while on a 6 month internship at Westfield:
The recent news link - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... - about the new Sport Turbo shows the dashboard I designed for them.




seansverige

719 posts

112 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
neilrallying said:
....we have already been directly approached...
a) that is particularly impressive in the economic climate
b) sounds like to you can tell us armchair experts where to go, whatever we think.... tongue out

As it happens, genuinely think it's a great job: these are fairly 'tight' renderings (both in the sense of quality of the image and how closely they follow reality) and the roof looks like it's always been there: can't do better than that. Has there been some additional form added into the bonnet? At some point would be nice to chat about how you went about the project, and whether things like the rear screen are bespoke.

If it's not prying, are the enquiries from new customers waiting for a roof, new customers not previously aware of the Murtaya, or even existing customers trading up?

Everyone loves a pretty rendering and now that's it gone public will you be forwarding this to the motoring press - both kit and mainstream? If you prepare a press release, could you let me know? A friend runs newcarnet.com and I'm sure he'd happily feature it their news feed; if you've got anything on your website I could forward it as tip to Autoblog, or I could just forward this thread - as long as you're OK with that?...

seansverige

719 posts

112 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
Woooaaahhh! It's all kicking off now...

Well done - I think the word that comes to mind is 'pert'. Nice.

And you've managed to achieve this with deceptively simple surfacing - just what's needed and no more. Integration of sill form and midbody surface break with side intake nice touch. Like the side window graphic - coupe graphic but confined to door, eliminating quarter light: clever.

fergiejames said:
final year major project
I'm assuming transport / industrial design: where?

fergiejames said:
It follows on from work I did while on a 6 month internship at Westfield
Is it a ground up design or based on existing platform? Either way what kind of structure is it - isn't the Libra a GRP monocoque, a body structure I know bugger all about. Didn't Westfield have an abortive attempt at a mid-engined coupe about 10-15 years ago - not related to that in any way?

About the only possible comment I could make is that the nose could do with a stronger identity: bu this really is nitpicking (but all I got because you've done such a good job.) I also I have the same comment about the Farbio GTS, and that's apparently the work of a Lotus blokey, so you're in good company wink

I also think your choice of project (I assume it was self determined even if approval needed?) is revealing: instead of fusion powered maglev (cos wheels, like, completely spoil the lines, dude) Bugatti for the year 2050 you've chosen something with real world relevance. Excellent stuff

Edited by seansverige on Thursday 22 October 13:48

fergiejames

4 posts

104 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
Thanks for the feedback

Yer I did Vehicle Design at Coventry University

Here are some more images:





I designed an aluminium tub with steel tubular subframes front and rear, although the wheelbase and track are the same as the GTM Balista concept from a few years ago so the fully tubular spaceframe chassis from that could be used to reduce costs if needed.

The engine is the 2.8 turbo V6 engine from the Vauxhall Vectra/Insignia VXR (Again following on from internship work) using the Vectra VXR gearbox.

seansverige

719 posts

112 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
Good to see Cov back on form - seemed to be bit wobbly for a few years: I was appalled to find out that about Cov students involvement with FBS Census, and a Masters student at that - there really is no excuse. I also believe the Invicta S1 was the work of a Cov graduate.

Kinda hard to defend professional input if those are the precedents, would love to have been fly on wall on either to see where they went wrong.

(updated previous post with a little more info - just needed to a few minutes to digest)

Gnits

825 posts

131 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
Neil - love those pics!

singlecoil

26,007 posts

176 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
neilrallying said:






In these two sketches there seems to be a big difference in how far the nose extends beyond the front axle, or is that just the viewing angle?

seansverige

719 posts

112 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
I'm sure if we compare back to photos it's probably a bit of both, the corner nearest us in the front 3/4 looks fractionally oversized as a whole. I'd suggest that this is a little 'drift' - during the rendering this will have been drawn and redrawn and staring at it for hours on end makes it a bugger to spot: the woods and trees blur into one another, especially if you add marker fumes into the mix wink

Looks like it's been drawn initially using proper old school techniques, scanned in and finished digitally: the colour saturation is off the chart, and note the angle of the 'refection' in the front three quarter image.

Still, lovely renderings which do convey a useful and accurate impression as to how the final item will look

singlecoil

26,007 posts

176 months

Thursday 22nd October 2009
quotequote all
I should imagine that the first picture is the more accurate, as the car is based on the Subaru which has its engine in front of the front axle. You can see this effect in the Murtaya. The design of the Murtaya is clever in the way in which it distracts attention from this. It's easy enough to do with a production saloon (virtually all of which are FWD) but not so easy with a sportscar.