Bought a kit-car - still registered as donor?

Bought a kit-car - still registered as donor?

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Discussion

Altrezia

Original Poster:

8,556 posts

214 months

Wednesday 5th December 2007
quotequote all
Hello chaps - my first post as a kit-car owner.

I recently bought a BRA Cobra, which is still registered as a 1975 Ford Granada..

Now, I guess to get it MOTed and road legal I'll have to re-register it. I've looked on the net, and found this:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...

I presume the 'Kit Conversions' section applies, and therefore I need an SVA (or an ESVA/MSVA? whatever they are)

Anyone got any advice as to what the SVA test comprises of, and what I need to do to keep the reg, as it's a private plate that applies to the kit! (doh!)

I'm just downloading the PDFs in the SVA Info thread now..

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Alex.

elwe

192 posts

223 months

Wednesday 5th December 2007
quotequote all
If you can convince them that the conversion took place before the SVA came in and it has been incorrectly registered since then, then you *might* get lucky and they may reregister it for you.

More likly you will need an SVA. To keep the private plate you will need to put it on retention before reregistering as you don't get the donors plate, just one from the same year. To get this you will need to get enough points for using bits from the donor, the list of what parts get what points etc is on the DVLA site.

You may run into trouble as they have started clamping down on SVAs for kit conversions recently and they seem to ask for build photos and all the recipts, which you will probably have trouble in providing.

Altrezia

Original Poster:

8,556 posts

214 months

Wednesday 5th December 2007
quotequote all
Indeed.

The kit was only produced in 1984-1986, by BRA, so that might come in handy?

james111s

873 posts

260 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
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Don't want to scare you, but you may struggle to get that through the SVA without some major mods.

My first point of call would be the person you bought it off, as they have sold you a car with an illegal identity. I would try and get the money back and buy a different one, seriously it could be that difficult.


Edited by james111s on Thursday 6th December 09:00

Banham

50 posts

201 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
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I'm probably missing something here, but this is the way I see it. Not all kit cars need to be SVA'D. If enough of the chassis and running gear was retained from the donor car, it is simply classed as a re bodied car. In which case, as it's still registered, you should be able to MOT the normal way. However, that's not your decision, and you will still have to talk with DVLA/SVA to get this agreed.

Altrezia

Original Poster:

8,556 posts

214 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
What would make it harder for this car to pass an SVA than a regular kit-car?

V8 GRF

7,294 posts

213 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
Altrezia said:
Hello chaps - my first post as a kit-car owner.

I recently bought a BRA Cobra, which is still registered as a 1975 Ford Granada..

Now, I guess to get it MOTed and road legal I'll have to re-register it. I've looked on the net, and found this:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSell...
I think those regs only apply to cars being registered now.

Do you have the V5 for it? If you do and it describes the car as a Granada then that's what the regs were at the time. So if it was registered then it's still valid, surely? Do you care if your V5 says it's a Granada? I wouldn't.

My guess is that you get an MOT, insure it and then tax it as normal.




james111s

873 posts

260 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
Any competent MOT tester will refer the car for an SVA at MOT time.
The car is not legal i'm afraid it's that simple. The insurance isn't valid and neither is the tax.

The age of the kit will be the problem as it was not deisnged to meet SVA requirements.
It may be easy, if you want to keep it i would read the manual cover to cover then book an sva test. You will then have a failure sheet from which to work.

james111s

873 posts

260 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
You could try filling the correct details in the log book and sending it back.
There was an amnesty on this by the DVLA for some time, but it ended years back. You never know though...

Good luck, it's a bug*er of a situation to find yourself in.

gingerpaul

2,929 posts

246 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
Hi Alex. Looks like a good kit judging by the picture in your profile. Would you be able to take a load of pictures of the car and put them up here? That way we might be able to tell you how tricky it'll be to get through the SVA if that's what you have to do.

If you did go through the SVA then I'd wager that you'd struggle to get an age related plate too if you've got no receipts etc, so you might end up with a Q plate too.

I'd echo the comments above and contact the previous owner initially as you've got a lot of work ahead of you if the DVLA can't simply reregister it as a kit. I don't know anything about registering kit cars from the pre SVA days though so I don't know how likely that's going to be, but I'd guess it was not likely at all I'm afraid. frown

V8 GRF

7,294 posts

213 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
james111s said:
Any competent MOT tester will refer the car for an SVA at MOT time.
The car is not legal i'm afraid it's that simple. The insurance isn't valid and neither is the tax.
With all due respect I think you're wrong.
I'm assuming that when the car was built the SVA did not exist. The requirement for an SVA is not retrospective. If a V5 was issued and he still has it then that's all he needs. Many classic production cars do not meet current regulations eg the requirement for seatbelts but that does not make them illegal.

If he has a V5 then I'm pretty sure all it will require is an MOT.

Edited to add

I've just lifted this from the DoT page on the SVA

"In all cases, SVA (whether enhanced or standard), is only required for vehicles less than 10 years old, which require first licensing and registration in Great Britain. SVA remains available as an option for all cars and light goods vehicles"

Therefore if the V5 for this car is in the possession of the owner it has been registered and therefore it does not need an SVA.


Edited by V8 GRF on Thursday 6th December 13:02

gingerpaul

2,929 posts

246 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
If he has a V5 then I'm pretty sure all it will require is an MOT.
I think the question is how kit cars used to be registered. During the time when the car would have been registered would it have been normal for the car's V5 to show the donor vehicle's name? I would have thought that it would have had to have been registered with the the donor's name unless it is based on an unmodified donor chassis. On that basis it should have been registered as a BRA Cobra, not as a Ford Granada.

I think that there was a time limit for cars built before the SVA came in to be registered as one of my friend's dad had to rush to get a car he was building completed to avoid it, as there was no way his car would pass. I'm afraid I don't know what the registration document says it is though, which would perhaps settle this discussion. To register after this deadline, which I believe was somewhere around 1999-2001, the car would need to be SVAed. If this is indeed the case, and the car should have initially been registered as a BRA Cobra, then I think the document is incorrect and a SVA would be required.

gingerpaul

2,929 posts

246 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
"In all cases, SVA (whether enhanced or standard), is only required for vehicles less than 10 years old, which require first licensing and registration in Great Britain. SVA remains available as an option for all cars and light goods vehicles"

Therefore if the V5 for this car is in the possession of the owner it has been registered and therefore it does not need an SVA
I think the important point here is if it has been registered correctly and therefore it wouldn't need a SVA. The V5 for the Ford Granada would just be the donor vehicle, of which a certain number of parts are required for an age related plate. If what you say was true then I wouldn't need to SVA my Dax Rush because I have a V5 for my 1989 Ford Sierra, which I used as a donor.

V8 GRF

7,294 posts

213 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
gingerpaul said:
I think the question is how kit cars used to be registered. During the time when the car would have been registered would it have been normal for the car's V5 to show the donor vehicle's name? I would have thought that it would have had to have been registered with the the donor's name unless it is based on an unmodified donor chassis. On that basis it should have been registered as a BRA Cobra, not as a Ford Granada.
I was a very enthusiastic follower of kitcars in my youth (I'm 45 now) and the legislation was a lot simpler and friendlier to Kit Cars. I remember that the percentage of the donar vehicle was critical in what type of number plate you got. I can't remember the figures but it was something like if it was 60% new parts you got a new current plate if less you had to register it as the doner car. If you built something like a beach buggy on a Beetle pan you just changed the V5 by calling it a rebodied VW Beetle. I had a Nova and that was 'S' registered and was also described as a rebodied Beetle. Difficult to understand in these legislation filled days but it was that easy.

gingerpaul said:
I think that there was a time limit for cars built before the SVA came in to be registered as one of my friend's dad had to rush to get a car he was building completed to avoid it, as there was no way his car would pass. I'm afraid I don't know what the registration document says it is though, which would perhaps settle this discussion. To register after this deadline, which I believe was somewhere around 1999-2001, the car would need to be SVAed. If this is indeed the case, and the car should have initially been registered as a BRA Cobra, then I think the document is incorrect and a SVA would be required.
You're correct so the point is when was Cobra we're talking about built and registered? As I've been saying all along if it's Pre SVA and he has the V5 it's legal.

james111s

873 posts

260 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
I'm definately not wrong on this one i'm afraid.
It's incorrectly registered as a ford granada. If the logobook does not state BRA cobra it needs an SVA test to be legal. It should be refused an MOT.

Email totalkitcar.com Steve ran a story a while back where a further amnesty on this had been negotiated with the dvla for some reason. He may be able to put you onto someone kit car friendly at the DVLA.



Edited by james111s on Thursday 6th December 13:18

V8 GRF

7,294 posts

213 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
james111s said:
I'm definately not wrong on this one i'm afraid.
It's incorrectly registered.
I'm sorry but unless you have more info on this than what's been posted you cannot be definite about this

james111s

873 posts

260 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
V8 GRF said:
james111s said:
I'm definately not wrong on this one i'm afraid.
It's incorrectly registered.
I'm sorry but unless you have more info on this than what's been posted you cannot be definite about this
If as the poster states it says Ford Granada on the logbook It's incorrectly registered. This topic has been covered in depth over the last 8 years in the kitcar press, may i suggest reading a copy of 'kit-cars and the law' produced by one of them a few years back. It will explain this in detail.



james111s

873 posts

260 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
I should add I'm speaking from experience here, i very nearly bought a car in the same situation. I asked the owner to renew the MOT at an AA testing station. Ding... 'SVA required Sir, this is not a 1978 ford escort, it's a 1989 westfield'

V8 GRF

7,294 posts

213 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
gingerpaul said:
If what you say was true then I wouldn't need to SVA my Dax Rush because I have a V5 for my 1989 Ford Sierra, which I used as a donor.
I'm not saying that because the rules now require ALL cars to have an SVA.
What I am saying however, is that if this car was built and was issued a V5 in a time previous to the SVA then it must have been legal. I'm assuming that it has been taxed and MOT'd previously.


V8 GRF

7,294 posts

213 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
james111s said:
I should add I'm speaking from experience here, i very nearly bought a car in the same situation. I asked the owner to renew the MOT at an AA testing station. Ding... 'SVA required Sir, this is not a 1978 ford escort, it's a 1989 westfield'
I appreciate what you're saying but the fact that it was still described on the V5 as a Ford Escort proves my point that in Pre SVA times that was the way things happened.

I venture to suggest that in that case the MOT tester was incorrect in requiring an SVA.