Bought a kit-car - still registered as donor?

Bought a kit-car - still registered as donor?

Author
Discussion

falcemob

8,248 posts

239 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
To get anything other than a Q plate the DVLA will want reciepts for the parts used to build the car. This will have to include an invoice for the chassis/body plus any invoices available for the donor car or anything used to build it.

Ferg

15,242 posts

260 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
I wouldn't worry about a 'Q', I'd worry about putting a car through SVA that wasn't designed to comply......

The 2.5mm radius' and such can be a real pain.

gingerpaul

2,929 posts

246 months

Thursday 6th December 2007
quotequote all
Blimey, you pop away for a couple of hours... hehe

V8 GRF said:
I'd ignore all of the opinions on here anyway and go in person to your local DVLA office and explain the situation. I'd trust their opinion more than any MOT tester or anyone on here
I think this is the best advice on here. Do go down though because if you're lucky enough to get to talk to the right person it'll make your life much easier. They bent over backwards to help me out last week registering my Rush and I spent over an hour with an expert in the area of kit cars.

My person opinion is that it is incorrectly registered and therefore illegal. As mentioned already, this affects insurance in the event of an accident and APNR because it will come up as a Granada. The only way I can see this not being the case is if the kit is based upon the Granada chassis, but I suspect that's unlikely.

Finally, regarding a Q plate if it does all get that far, you need 2 major components from the donor (axels and steering for example) and a receipt for a new chassis to ensure you get an age related plate (ie what you have now). All I'll say is that the DVLA don't do much checking of the receipts you give them if you catch my drift, and if it's from the 1980's...

Tony427

2,873 posts

236 months

Saturday 8th December 2007
quotequote all
Altrezia said:
I just spoke to a previous owner. Apparently he used the cobra on the road, and for his wedding - so the car has certainly been on the road in the past.

I will do more digging, and speak to the DVLA.

Cheers folks - you lot are great.
Get some copies of the guys wedding photographs featuring the car thereby proving it was taxed and insured prior to SVA coming into force.

Cheers,

Tony

hal 1

409 posts

252 months

Saturday 8th December 2007
quotequote all
My own experiences in these matters is that years before the SVA i put a Rochdale bodyshell onto a Triumph Herald chassis, when i went to have it inspected for the change it was then registered as a Triumph Rochdale.
My Haldane went through the SVA and is registered as a Haldane 100 with no mention of any donor i:e Ford.
Don't worry too much about the SVA test it really isn't as bad as you'd think,

Joe T

487 posts

227 months

Saturday 8th December 2007
quotequote all
I would get all the facts together, when last on the road, when sorned, build date, V5 Details, and then ring Vosa, they are pretty helpful normally, but you will need the facts to hand.

I think it would be possible for an MOT tester to do a test on it, whether it would be road legal from a paperwork perspective afterwards is another matter. If its not had a MOT for sometime the tester would just enter the details of whats presented, no info would come up on the computer if its been off the road for some time, then ask the date of manufacture for the CO and other regs, then do a brake test based on the weight.


falcemob

8,248 posts

239 months

Sunday 9th December 2007
quotequote all
Joe T said:
I would get all the facts together, when last on the road, when sorned, build date, V5 Details, and then ring Vosa, they are pretty helpful normally, but you will need the facts to hand.

I think it would be possible for an MOT tester to do a test on it, whether it would be road legal from a paperwork perspective afterwards is another matter. If its not had a MOT for sometime the tester would just enter the details of whats presented, no info would come up on the computer if its been off the road for some time, then ask the date of manufacture for the CO and other regs, then do a brake test based on the weight.
You are correct with all that, the only thing is the tester would do emissions according to the age of the engine if it's older than the car but it's up to the presenter to provide the tester with proof of engine age.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

258 months

Sunday 9th December 2007
quotequote all
Altrezia said:
Yep, price wasn't 'dirt cheap', but I'm still happy with the purchase, even if I do end up with a Q.
Some will probably argue but IMO a Q on a kit car, certainly at the lower end of the market (I assume this wasn't a 30k Cobra), doesn't really affect value at all. It has some disadvantages in not being able to put a 'private' plate on the car, and there is still some lingering ignorance that a Q plate means it's been stolen or written off previously. On the plus side you need never have to worry about an emissions test at an MOT other than for visible smoke.

Dave Dax builder

662 posts

262 months

Sunday 9th December 2007
quotequote all
hal 1 said:
My own experiences in these matters is that years before the SVA i put a Rochdale bodyshell onto a Triumph Herald chassis, when i went to have it inspected for the change it was then registered as a Triumph Rochdale.
My Haldane went through the SVA and is registered as a Haldane 100 with no mention of any donor i:e Ford.
Don't worry too much about the SVA test it really isn't as bad as you'd think,
Bingo!
That is what is supposed to happen.
What looks like has happened with the car in question here is that it has been built and (As this is all before the days of the SVA) instead of being presented to the local DVLA for re registration under its new title/description the original builder just screwed the no. plates off the old Granada donor onto it and started using it.
As there is still a V5 present for this car (ie. the Granada one) then there is no reason this car should end up on a "Q" as atleast the front and rear axles, suspension and steering mechanism have all come from this vehicle (And suspension does noty just mean springs and shocks as they are service items, anything between the chassis and the hubs is suspension also.
Seeing as at least 2 of the above 3 items have been reclaimed/salvaged/used from the Granada donor there is plenty to qualify for an age related number.
The problem (Assuming they will let the car through without an SVA test) is that when a donor vehicle is used the registration number from that vehicle is surrendered and a new one from that era/year is issued for the car. Maybe a bit of haggling would be required to retain the 427 reg number.

Having registered 19 cobra kits before the SVA came in and a further 98 since I feel I might have more than enough experience to comment on this in an informed manner.


skwdenyer

17,252 posts

243 months

Sunday 9th December 2007
quotequote all
Joe T said:
I would get all the facts together, when last on the road, when sorned, build date, V5 Details, and then ring Vosa, they are pretty helpful normally, but you will need the facts to hand.
OP states previous owner has not had car on road since early 1990s. Therefore no presumption as to it requiring SORN. If that is the case, the OP should avoid declaring SORN if at all possible (since it is not required), just to make life easier!

gingerpaul

2,929 posts

246 months

Sunday 9th December 2007
quotequote all
I think the only hurdle to getting an age related plate is proving that a new chassis was used, as I think the rules are a new chassis plus 2 other major items. As I said earlier though, the DVLA didn't look very hard at any of the receipts I produced when I registered my car.

Vindi_andy

229 posts

226 months

Monday 10th December 2007
quotequote all
Having bout a triumph herald based kit car in the past I speak from the other side of the coin but from experience.

Go down to your DVLA office and talk to them but as far as I am aware the only way to avoid SVA is to have used the original unmodified chassis of the donor vehicle.

I nearly ended up having to put my spartan through SVA due to ignorance of DVLA people on the phone. When I went into the local office and queried the point i was told that as the car was built on the original chassis it was SVA exempt.

If the OPs car hasnt been used since the 90s then its not had an MOT and as has been stated prviously they are getting tighter on these.


migwell

76 posts

216 months

Monday 10th December 2007
quotequote all
Dave Dax builder said:
hal 1 said:
My own experiences in these matters is that years before the SVA i put a Rochdale bodyshell onto a Triumph Herald chassis, when i went to have it inspected for the change it was then registered as a Triumph Rochdale.
My Haldane went through the SVA and is registered as a Haldane 100 with no mention of any donor i:e Ford.
Don't worry too much about the SVA test it really isn't as bad as you'd think,
Bingo!
That is what is supposed to happen.
What looks like has happened with the car in question here is that it has been built and (As this is all before the days of the SVA) instead of being presented to the local DVLA for re registration under its new title/description the original builder just screwed the no. plates off the old Granada donor onto it and started using it.
As there is still a V5 present for this car (ie. the Granada one) then there is no reason this car should end up on a "Q" as atleast the front and rear axles, suspension and steering mechanism have all come from this vehicle (And suspension does noty just mean springs and shocks as they are service items, anything between the chassis and the hubs is suspension also.
Seeing as at least 2 of the above 3 items have been reclaimed/salvaged/used from the Granada donor there is plenty to qualify for an age related number.
The problem (Assuming they will let the car through without an SVA test) is that when a donor vehicle is used the registration number from that vehicle is surrendered and a new one from that era/year is issued for the car. Maybe a bit of haggling would be required to retain the 427 reg number.

Having registered 19 cobra kits before the SVA came in and a further 98 since I feel I might have more than enough experience to comment on this in an informed manner.
Total agree with this as had a similar problem myself, goodluck

Ferg

15,242 posts

260 months

Monday 10th December 2007
quotequote all
Dave Dax builder said:
.....I feel I might have more than enough experience to comment on this in an informed manner.
Does that make you a know-all, Dave?
smile

simon3000

125 posts

200 months

Monday 10th December 2007
quotequote all
hopefully you may be lucky.i had the same problem with a pilgrim hawthorn earlier this year.you need to speak to the person who does the inspections,i found them very helpfull.the car had to be issued with a new vin number as it hadnt got one but they ammended the v5 and kept the original registration.

Dave Dax builder

662 posts

262 months

Monday 10th December 2007
quotequote all
Ferg said:
Dave Dax builder said:
.....I feel I might have more than enough experience to comment on this in an informed manner.
Does that make you a know-all, Dave?
smile
Hi Ferg.
Having read through it again (Instead of reading while typing in a frenzy) it certainly does read like that....Hey ho!
I do get a bit would up sometimes when people (I'm sure with the best intentions) come out with a complete load of dribble of miss-information.

King Herald

23,501 posts

219 months

Friday 14th December 2007
quotequote all
skwdenyer said:
Joe T said:
I would get all the facts together, when last on the road, when sorned, build date, V5 Details, and then ring Vosa, they are pretty helpful normally, but you will need the facts to hand.
OP states previous owner has not had car on road since early 1990s. Therefore no presumption as to it requiring SORN. If that is the case, the OP should avoid declaring SORN if at all possible (since it is not required), just to make life easier!
I thought a change of registered keeper meant an automatic flagging for either the SORN or road tax process to be initiated? As long as the car doesn't change hands, and has not been taxed or SORNed since the SORN process came in, then it doesn't need doing, but once you sell the car it does.

skwdenyer

17,252 posts

243 months

Friday 14th December 2007
quotequote all
King Herald said:
skwdenyer said:
Joe T said:
I would get all the facts together, when last on the road, when sorned, build date, V5 Details, and then ring Vosa, they are pretty helpful normally, but you will need the facts to hand.
OP states previous owner has not had car on road since early 1990s. Therefore no presumption as to it requiring SORN. If that is the case, the OP should avoid declaring SORN if at all possible (since it is not required), just to make life easier!
I thought a change of registered keeper meant an automatic flagging for either the SORN or road tax process to be initiated? As long as the car doesn't change hands, and has not been taxed or SORNed since the SORN process came in, then it doesn't need doing, but once you sell the car it does.
Hmm, this point seems moot to me. See here:

DVLA said:
SORN isn’t needed if:

* you sell the vehicle
* you scrap the vehicle or pass it to a scrap dealer
* your insurance company write the vehicle off
* you take the vehicle abroad permanently
* you apply for a refund and don’t keep the vehicle
* your vehicle was last taxed before 31 January 1998
It is true that a new SORN is needed if you change the keeper of a car currently declared SORN, but I don't see where this process is triggered in the circumstances you describe.

King Herald

23,501 posts

219 months

Friday 14th December 2007
quotequote all
skwdenyer said:
King Herald said:
skwdenyer said:
Joe T said:
I would get all the facts together, when last on the road, when sorned, build date, V5 Details, and then ring Vosa, they are pretty helpful normally, but you will need the facts to hand.
OP states previous owner has not had car on road since early 1990s. Therefore no presumption as to it requiring SORN. If that is the case, the OP should avoid declaring SORN if at all possible (since it is not required), just to make life easier!
I thought a change of registered keeper meant an automatic flagging for either the SORN or road tax process to be initiated? As long as the car doesn't change hands, and has not been taxed or SORNed since the SORN process came in, then it doesn't need doing, but once you sell the car it does.
Hmm, this point seems moot to me. See here:

DVLA said:
SORN isn’t needed if:

* you sell the vehicle
* you scrap the vehicle or pass it to a scrap dealer
* your insurance company write the vehicle off
* you take the vehicle abroad permanently
* you apply for a refund and don’t keep the vehicle
* your vehicle was last taxed before 31 January 1998
It is true that a new SORN is needed if you change the keeper of a car currently declared SORN, but I don't see where this process is triggered in the circumstances you describe.
Hmm, when I bought my Morris Eight project I recieved a SORN application in the post soon after I recived the log book, telling me I had to either SORN it or tax it.

Asking about on forums I frequent, people told me it was automatic once the car changed hands. The Morris most definitly hadn't been on the road or SORNed in the previous 15 years or more, so i wonder why they sent me the papers. confused

skwdenyer

17,252 posts

243 months

Saturday 15th December 2007
quotequote all
King Herald said:
skwdenyer said:
King Herald said:
skwdenyer said:
Joe T said:
I would get all the facts together, when last on the road, when sorned, build date, V5 Details, and then ring Vosa, they are pretty helpful normally, but you will need the facts to hand.
OP states previous owner has not had car on road since early 1990s. Therefore no presumption as to it requiring SORN. If that is the case, the OP should avoid declaring SORN if at all possible (since it is not required), just to make life easier!
I thought a change of registered keeper meant an automatic flagging for either the SORN or road tax process to be initiated? As long as the car doesn't change hands, and has not been taxed or SORNed since the SORN process came in, then it doesn't need doing, but once you sell the car it does.
Hmm, this point seems moot to me. See here:

DVLA said:
SORN isn’t needed if:

* you sell the vehicle
* you scrap the vehicle or pass it to a scrap dealer
* your insurance company write the vehicle off
* you take the vehicle abroad permanently
* you apply for a refund and don’t keep the vehicle
* your vehicle was last taxed before 31 January 1998
It is true that a new SORN is needed if you change the keeper of a car currently declared SORN, but I don't see where this process is triggered in the circumstances you describe.
Hmm, when I bought my Morris Eight project I recieved a SORN application in the post soon after I recived the log book, telling me I had to either SORN it or tax it.

Asking about on forums I frequent, people told me it was automatic once the car changed hands. The Morris most definitly hadn't been on the road or SORNed in the previous 15 years or more, so i wonder why they sent me the papers. confused
I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm asking for clarification as to where it is written that this must happen. I'm sure DVLA would like you to declare SORN or tax it, but I still haven't found where it says I must do so!