3428TM Build Log

3428TM Build Log

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Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2011
quotequote all
I thought I'd (com)pile my build log somewhere around here. Big Al. suggested I use the Classics Forum. I'm still not sure how to construct the thread, but will probably do a lot of retroactive editing as I remember things. One thing I'll try to do, is post part numbers and specifications, to make this of some value to others.

I hope some of you will enjoy the pictures, and the reading.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Having become friends with John Wadman, while living in Toronto in the 1970s, I had the opportunity to drive various TVRs at his dealership. Of the M series cars, there was one I wanted to buy, but at age 17 or 18, I knew I'd kill myself too soon. The car was well beyond my meager driving ability. It was a 5000M in yellow and black.

In 1987, I finally bought 3428TM, a 2500M from him. I later found out that this car had been his original demonstrator, upon taking over JAG Motors. Almost immediately, I swapped the repugnant, leaky Strombergs for triple SK side draught carburetors, and added an Allison optical trigger ignition module. After some years of hard driving, and the addition of an "A" type Laycock overdrive, and a tubular exhaust header, I decided to add a hot cam and perform all engine modifications outlined in the Triumph Competition Preparation Manual, add an Accusump, vernier cam chain sprocket, and any other go fast bits I could get my grubby mitts on. Too bad I never could build an engine that lasted. They all wiped lobes off the cams. We built the engine about four times. Each time I purchased the same lightweight lifters, that may have been of too soft a material. This ended around 1995.

I decided that I would see what TVR could have built on an M chassis with production car parts from various manufacturer's bins in or about 1990. My plan was to buy only what I could source from breakers' yards.

What follows is a plan gone off, on a series of tangents.

1.) I took the chassis frame to a welder I'd met whose work I'd seen. His Aluminium welds were gorgeous. He bragged about being trained by the inventor of the TIG welder. He didn't brag about being a full blown alcoholic who, when drinking, thought he could recreate missing sections of tube (rust damage) by adding weld metal.

Round two had me take it away, to a "friend," to whom I described exactly what I wanted replaced, as well as the gauges, size, and type of steel I wanted him to use. Screwed again! I wanted all rotted tubes to be replaced with 1.5" 4130 ChoMoly steel, in 16/18ga and took it back with a mix of 1.25" and 1.5" mild steel, 1/8" section tubing. fker! While the frame was being welded up I'd looked for nice four piston Aluminium calipers, and vented rotors, and found some on a junk yard RX-7 of approximately 1988 vintage. New front stub axles were machined to accept the taper to be fitted to the Alford & Alder front uprights, and the Aluminium front hubs, vented 10.9" rotors, and calipers were all moved onto the M front suspension.

Some of the brackets that had been added to the frame were not to my liking (too massive), and subsequently removed. After spending weeks cleaning the chassis via Skyco's Ospho, and media blasting (silica sand), and visiting the opthamologist twice to have silica shards removed from my eyes, my good friend, and talented customizer, Dave DeVore coated it with epoxy primer, and followed with 1969 Porsche blue urethane base clear. Shown below on my home brewed rotisserie.



Getting to that point was gratifying, and a huge relief, as the frame was now protected, and I could move on to other areas.

- ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~
Engine:
(Based on 1988 Ford Mustang 5.0 hydraulic roller lifter motor)

Displacement: 331.646 CI (5434 cc)
Bore: 4.030”
Stroke: 3.25”
Block deck ht. 8.200” (Std-decked)

Cylinder Heads:
AFR 185 (emissions legal) Part #AFR-1422
Intake valves - 2.020"
Exhaust valves - 1.600"
Combustion chamber vol. - 58cc,
Intake port volume - 185cc
Exhaust port volume - 69cc
Designed for 302-351 cid engines operating from 1500 rpm to 6500 rpm.

Camshaft:
Ed Iskenderian Racing Cams 371-RR SPEC/ROLLER CAM RR-573/294HYD, 110LC
(Order number 178188)

Valve Lift - INT: .573 EXT: .573. ADV Duration - INT: 294° EXT: 294° .050 Duration - INT: 248° EXT: 248° Lobe Center: 110°
CAM LIFT: .358"
VALVE LIFT: .573"

Valve train:
Miller Engineering 1.6:1 7075 extruded aluminum 3/8” stud mount Roller rockers part # PA3060B-Y
PS4 valve spring package by FlowTech Induction.

Pistons:
Probe Pistons part # 12357-030
4.030 -Dia.
1.280 -CH
-4.0 -Vol.
489 -Gram

Manufactured of 2618-T6 extruded bar stock forgings.
Intake pocket is 2.150 diameter x .250 deep.
Exhaust pocket is 1.900 diameter x .220 deep
Tight running clearance (.002 to .006)
Weight matched (+/- 2.5 grams)
Finished diameters +/- .00005

Pins:
.927” Dia.
2.500” Length
1018 Steel
.150" Wall
118 Grams

Connecting Rods:
Eagle H-beam
Length: 5.315”
Rod big end diameter: ?
Wrist pin diameter: ?
Crank main journal diameter:
Bolts: SPS-CARR 7/16 (torque to 95 Lbs/Ft re-useable)

Crankshaft:
Hawks Racing 4340 FORGED STEEL (3.25") Stroke Crankshaft for use with one piece or two piece rear seal, part # HR-CK-DG3-302A
Stock 302 main journal (2.2486") and rod (2.1232) for use w/ stock Ford 302 Bearings.
Features:
CNC Machine for "Competition" Quality and tolerance
All Journals micro polished to 5rms finish
Rounded Crank Throws for superior windage
Generous .125" throw radii for superior strength
Large chamfered oiling holes for improved lubrication
Balanced to 50 oz imbalance
Magna-fluxed, ultrasonic tested, nitrated and shot peened for lasting durability and performance. 100,000psi Tensile Strength and Double Heat Treated

Steel main bearing cap girdle fitted.

Engine Management:
ECU: tbd

Fuel System:
Paxton 1000 HP Fuel Pump .......................... part # 8001688
Paxton Fuel Filter ................................ part # 8001689
Fuel Filter Element ......................... part #
Paxton 5/8" ID billet Fuel Rails ....................... part # 5007026-2
Paxton Adjustable Fuel pressure Regulator ........... part # 8001690
Injectors...................Bosch, type - EV1 "Green Giant" with connectors, Impedance - 11-18 ohms, Flow Rate - 42 lbs/hr, 440cc, part #0280155968

Intake manifold:
Parker Funnel Web (Made in Australia)
Modified for EFI by the addition of injector bungs (weld & drill) and rail mounts by Ford Performance Solutions,
1004 & 1006 E. Orangefair Lane,
Anaheim, CA
92801

Oiling:
Barnes Systems, 9017 series, 6-stage pump with 3-lobe rotor
(gilmer belt driven off crankshaft) Serial # R3602275

Barnes Systems
3162 Kashiwa St.
Torrance, CA 90505
310-534–3844
Fax 310-534–1229

Cooling:
NONE AS YET

Exhaust: not completed
Will (at least initially) be based on Hooker Header flanges
Stepped design with 1-5/8" & 1-3/4" primaries

Differential:
Toyota Supra (1989 & newer) clutch type limited slip w/ six-bolt (CV joint) flange
Ratio - 3.67:1

Transmission:
Transmission Technologies Corporation (TTC) Tremec model 3550 five speed w/ (?what position?) shifter. (# of spline input shaft??)
torque rating of approx 375ft/lb(3550) improved synchronizers & improved shift.
Gear ratios:
1st........….....3.27:1
2nd......…......1.98:1
3rd......…........1.3:1
4th........….........1:1
5th(OD)…...0.068:1


Rear Axles:
...will be custom units

Suspension:

The rear uprights/hub carriers were reinforced by addition of 3/8" plates in the original casting holes at the rear face

and modified to allow the use of Nissan 240SX stub axles, hubs and brakes (-see below)


All suspension arms are OEM TVR, all of these, with the exception of one rear lower A-arm are nickel plated as originally installed.
Rear lower “A” arms were reinforced by adding triangulation (see below)



Shock Absorbers:
Spax 14-way adjustable part# G767-S180 for TVR front & rear

coil-over shock information:
shock open length=16"
shock closed length=11 11/16" (rebound rubber not collapsed)
shock closed length=10 5/8" (rebound rubber collapsed)

Springs:
Front:
Rear:

Suspension bushings:
Manufacturer: SuperFlex
SPF0731/19 -3/4" Front Anti Roll Bar to Body Bush-2 req
SPF0288 - Front & Rear Wishbone Cotton Reel Bush & Stainless Steel -uses 24 per car
SPF0941 Steering Rack Mount Bush
WARNING: Bushes must not come into contact with alcohol-based solvents such as MEK, methanol, or methylated spirit.

Brakes:
(master)
Front Brakes:
Mazda RX7 (1989-1991) four piston Aluminum calipers and 10.9” vented disc. (find out spec on thickness!!) (also, find out piston diameter)
Rear Brakes:
Nissan 240SX (1989-93) single piston, solid disc
Brake Lines:
Stainless steel braided lines Russell part # 8560/685600 (street legal Mazda RX-7 88-92) UPC 087133856001

Wheels:
John Purner's Complete Custom Wheel three piece wheels -polished centers machined from 6000 series forgings w/ polished, spun 5000 series shells
Front..... on 4 1/2"(114.3mm) X 5-bolt w/ " backspace
Rear.....9 1/2" wide on 4 1/2"(114.3mm) X 4-bolt w/ 4 1/2" backspace
John@ccwheel.com


Wheel studs:
Front.......12mm x 1.50 thread pitch (Mazda)
Rear........12mm x 1.25 thread pitch (Nissan)

Tires:
Front: Kumho Exsta Supra 712 235/40 WR18

Rear: Kumho Exsta Supra 712 275/35 WR18
(25.57” Diameter)
(80.35” Circumference)

Body Mods:
None as yet.
Hood was replaced after an accident with a lighter unit from David & Gerald

Interior: Corbeau seats

Electrical: Will be removed and replaced. I have a complete harness from the 1988 Mustang that was the engine block donor.

new dash


Gauges:




Here are a few pictures from the third week of November, 2011.


... more to come ...

Best,
B.

Edited by Slow M on Thursday 24th November 06:24

my250gt

614 posts

176 months

Thursday 24th November 2011
quotequote all
NICE.

Loving all the info, keep up the good work clap

Now that you have started your build thread it would be nice to get a weekly update, even if you dont make that much progress there must be decisions you are making along the way?? Its good to be able to log on and follow a project getting done.

Do you have a target completion date, and what are the plans for use, racing or road?

Regards

Phil.

TVR_owner

3,349 posts

148 months

Thursday 24th November 2011
quotequote all
I'm concerned after seeing those air horns on the roof. What do they play?? smile

GAjon

3,214 posts

170 months

Thursday 24th November 2011
quotequote all
Slow M said:
.

new dash


Gauges:




Best,
B.

Edited by Slow M on Thursday 24th November 06:24
Bernard, don't mean to upset you after all the hard work, but, you've put the gauges on the wrong side wink

Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Thursday 24th November 2011
quotequote all
my250gt said:
NICE.

Loving all the info, keep up the good work clap

Now that you have started your build thread it would be nice to get a weekly update, even if you dont make that much progress there must be decisions you are making along the way?? Its good to be able to log on and follow a project getting done.

Do you have a target completion date, and what are the plans for use, racing or road?

Regards

Phil.
Thanks Phil,

I'll try to let you know what goes on, but January 1st, my priorities will shift, and I will focus on reviving my career. There's never really been a target date, as much as ensuring it's done right.

Plans change constantly, and even though I thought it would be a dual use car, built for road and track, I'll try to get it running, and then worry about all of the safety devices required in various classes that would allow it to run.

TVR_owner said:
I'm concerned after seeing those air horns on the roof. What do they play?? smile
John,

I think it's La Cuccaracca! Hahahaha! No need for concern, though, there's a replaceable disk in the pump, that can be swapped for one designed for a different tune. They weigh a ton, too, and I found them at a time when I was spending an eternity, and a fortune on purchasing, and modifying parts that would help me remove every possible gram (literally) from the chassis. Military specification hardware with half height nuts, bolts that are just long enough to have a couple of threads showing after the nut ... but at least I mounted them to a light weight bracket.

GAjon said:
Bernard, don't mean to upset you after all the hard work, but, you've put the gauges on the wrong side wink
S H I T !
... hmm, there's space for two more in the glove box ... and I do have an old Les Leston wood rim wheel ...

Best,
B.

ivanhoew

864 posts

198 months

Saturday 26th November 2011
quotequote all
blimey what an amazing piece of kit ! one thing , for the flow from those heads ,that seems like a fair bit of duration on the cam ,does it really need that much for a 6500 redline ? i may be waffling here since i havent really researched it,but i would have expected around 220 degrees at 50 thou.

regards
robert.

Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Saturday 26th November 2011
quotequote all
ivanhoew said:
blimey what an amazing piece of kit ! one thing , for the flow from those heads ,that seems like a fair bit of duration on the cam ,does it really need that much for a 6500 redline ? i may be waffling here since i havent really researched it,but i would have expected around 220 degrees at 50 thou.

regards
robert.
Robert,

Thanks. The truth is, the redline will be around 7200. Also, see estimate below.



Best,
B.

P.S. Sorry if incoherent, just came back from skateboarding, and it's after 3:00 AM here.

TVR_owner

3,349 posts

148 months

Saturday 26th November 2011
quotequote all
Torque curve to die for smile

Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Saturday 26th November 2011
quotequote all
TVR_owner said:
Torque curve to die for smile
Thanks John,

we are working toward the largest area under the curve. The six stage dry sump lubrication system should help a little. Unfortunately, I don't think my engine builder used optimal seals for pulling a proper vacuum, so I'll have to limit it via an adjustable pressure valve at the lifter valley.

1st attempt at trial fitting the tank was a joke. Had me laughing. "Some modifications required."

Best,
B.

ivanhoew

864 posts

198 months

Sunday 27th November 2011
quotequote all
hi bernard,

would you believe i was running that make of software professionally on record breaking engines in 1990! oh dear,its much prettier now .
couple of things i might look at on that simulation , one is the friction factor ,seems v high ,then other is the intake and exhaust tuinng pressure ,these seem low .,but again , i have not researched this ,just speaking from memory .

my concern is , it would be a shame to have a cam come in at say 3000 rpm ,and not have the flow to use its 7500 top end due to the 185 heads ,better to have a cam coming in at 2250 say ,and have it top out where the heads would.(i'm probably teaching you to suck eggs and putting my foot in it here !)

regards robertsmile

Edited by ivanhoew on Sunday 27th November 08:36

V8TVR1978

895 posts

147 months

Sunday 27th November 2011
quotequote all
Bernard: Once complete....... You are going to love that American muscle in the car. PULL, PULL, PULL and then some MORE PULL. Our two daughters supercharged 2500M is kept ready to use all winter as we get "Chinooks" around here and all of a sudden in the middle of January you can get 2 or 3 days of drive time on DRY PAVEMENT BUT you must remember to wash the underside before putting it away again. The Spousal Units (John Wadman's) slightly modded 302 Taimar(with auto) is just as much fun as the 2500M (but boring on the right hand/arm. Now my 347 stroked Taimar puts shivers through my whole body just thinking about driving it between the first of November and about the middle of April.( But it has seen use in all 12 months of the year since I bought it.) Then again, I have been told many times that I don't have both my oars in the water. I let John take his creation, my Taimar out for a spin after we stroked the 302 and he scared me but the GRIN that was on his face when he got out of the car was well worth it. Enjoy the build and keep everyone updated.....

Wayne/Sherry Leppard.
Calgary, Alberta.
73 supercharged 2500M.
78 (John Wadman creation) V8 Taimar (5000M??????????)
79 V8 Taimar. ( converted by J.W. after engine packed it in.)

V8TVR1978

895 posts

147 months

Sunday 27th November 2011
quotequote all
Once again I would like to thank John Wadman for thinking outside of the box and creating our 2 V8 Taimars and for everything that he and Doug have done for the TVR brand on this side of the pond. His thinking and tinkering on TVRs has inspired many people like Bernard to go out and have fun with their cars.

And for sometime different, here is Jack Griffith in my Taimar.






ivanhoew

864 posts

198 months

Sunday 27th November 2011
quotequote all
shame your not a bit further to the west wayne , im in vancouver for 6 weeks soon .

Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Sunday 27th November 2011
quotequote all
ivanhoew said:
hi bernard,

would you believe i was running that make of software professionally on record breaking engines in 1990! oh dear,its much prettier now .
couple of things i might look at on that simulation, one is the friction factor ,seems v high ,the other is the intake and exhaust tuning pressure, these seem low, but again, i have not researched this, just speaking from memory.

my concern is , it would be a shame to have a cam come in at say 3000 rpm ,and not have the flow to use its 7500 top end due to the 185 heads ,better to have a cam coming in at 2250 say ,and have it top out where the heads would.(i'm probably teaching you to suck eggs and putting my foot in it here !)

regards robertsmile
Robert,

Thanks lots for your feedback! I don't have the software installed in my current computer, so I'll talk to my brother about the parameters you mentioned. He is a big fan of Engine Analyzer, as well as PipeMax. To make himself comfortable with the real life repeatability of the software's output, he "built" some of his old racing engines (all dynoed multiple times) in Engine Analyzer, and found the results to be very close.

When I chose those heads, I looked for the highest flowing emissions legal ones available. When the time came to design a cam for the engine, I turned to two people who had my trust without question. I gave my brother and Ron Iskenderian the same set of questions[1], and asked them to give me the resulting cam profile. The one I'm using was the exact same one they came up with independently of one another. Every number matched.

[1] Limitations I asked for/imposed were:
  • had to run on pump gas at around 11:1[2] CR
  • hydraulic roller
  • rev limit @ 7,250 (soft cut?)
  • some slight chance of passing emissions tests in some of the states in the USA
  • idle such that my dental work would remain in my mouth
  • (most importantly) provide the largest area under the curve
The lifters HAD TO BE hydraulic rollers. I have a bad back, am lazy, and am not much of an appreciator of valve clatter (x16) in what I hope will be my daily driver. Some time after all of the components were selected and designed, David Vizard wrote an article on a 331 build. Even though the article states that the heads used were AFR's 205cc type, a later clarification showed that the engine actually utilized the 185s.

The dyno sheet he published, showed the power climbing nicely, with no sign of falling off, up to 7,200rpm. Obvious advantages are his use of a solid, flat tappet cam, and higher compression. By the way, Ford's two bolt main small block is a light weight casting, and ~500HP is about the safe limit, on a naturally aspirated engine, before the block cracks along the lifter valley, even with the addition of a main cap girdle.

[2] An original parameter that I screwed up by purchasing the wrong con-rods (long story, but as a result, there are a set of Carrillo rods for sale).

Best,
B.

P.S. What types of engines were you building? My brother is finding flaws in the software when investigating a variety of components for a high HP air cooled Porsche 6. I imagine you had somewhat more trouble when you were using it 20 odd years ago.

Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Sunday 27th November 2011
quotequote all
Wayne/Sherry,

It must be nice to have an M for every season/mood. smile

J.W. is an amazing driver. He took three or four of us for a run through my old neighborhood in Toronto, on streets I knew very well. I remember being crouched in the back (trunk) of one of the first Tasmins. THRILLRIDE! His calm demeanor belies his ability behind the wheel.

I'm off to play around with a new shape for the dry sump tank I purchased. As the dimensions will be the same for all M bodies, I'll draw a sketch of what I come up with and publish it here later.

Best,
B.

Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Sunday 27th November 2011
quotequote all
ivanhoew said:
shame your not a bit further to the west wayne , im in vancouver for 6 weeks soon .
Six weeks is a long time. I'll be two hours due south of you, and I work in a book shop you may enjoy perusing.

Best,
B.

V8TVR1978

895 posts

147 months

Monday 28th November 2011
quotequote all
Bernard: Are you in the Seattle/Renton area???????????????????????

V8TVR1978

895 posts

147 months

Monday 28th November 2011
quotequote all
Bernard: Even after all these years since you lived in "TorontA" and had that ride that you will probably never forget, I probably experienced that same calm style of drive that you had and I know that I will not forget it untill the day they bury me in the cardboard pizza box that i believe my 2 girls have already paid for. I do have a pic of J.W.s grin that day but I just couldn't keep those striped shorts of mine and it was a real short drive.

Wayne/Sherry,

It must be nice to have an M for every season/mood. smile

J.W. is an amazing driver. He took three or four of us for a run through my old neighborhood in Toronto, on streets I knew very well. I remember being crouched in the back (trunk) of one of the first Tasmins. THRILLRIDE! His calm demeanor belies his ability behind the wheel.

I'm off to play around with a new shape for the dry sump tank I purchased. As the dimensions will be the same for all M bodies, I'll draw a sketch of what I come up with and publish it here later.

Best,
B.
[/quote]

ivanhoew

864 posts

198 months

Monday 28th November 2011
quotequote all
hi bernard ,

i think for the 7.2k limit ,that that cam makes sense ,although i had assumed it was a flat tappet cam ,being a roller , i feel a bit of porting on the heads and a softer cam in the 225 to 230 range would be a nicer street compromise .it looks like your model is topping out earlier than you hope the real life one would ,carefull measuring of all the friction areas can drop the losses perhaps ?

i still do a bit of cam design on my own cars ,bernard , my 1312cc turbo mini at 248 bhp uses one of my designs ,ran a 13.26 1/4 @ 112.1 mph and took 2nd fastest 5 port at last years drag shootout ,and 3rd fastest this year ,on open diff and falken tyes ,and weighing about 70 kg more than the other cars .

my biggest cam fun ,was a 1927 8 litre vintage bentley ,i did the computer analysis of the engine for the customer ,then designed the exhaust and inlet dimensions and then went and had fun building the engine ,it put out 325 bhp which was about 3 bhp different to the model ,

i then designed a cam for it and special high ratio rockers ,using about 3 different cam design programs ,and a fair bit of experience ,this on its first dyno pull went to 488 bhp ,and after a bit of tuning topped at 511 bhp 720 lbs/ft ,still climbing at 4800 rpm ,but the builder of the car and the various owners and observers felt that was enough lol. i think 600 would have been on the cards with more revs ,but it was very long stroke .
this went on to set fastest v benley on the standing km , i think it was 23.1 s ? crossing the line at 155 mph , I tHINK , i may be wrong on the nos. not bad ...it weighed 3950 lbs !! on little bycicle tyres and spoked wheels .

re book shops , i went to a autobooks shop south of van last year i think ,we where looking at mini books for my partner who has a jan 1960 mini over here . i wonder if it was the same shop.

regards
robert

Edited by ivanhoew on Monday 28th November 08:16

Slow M

Original Poster:

2,581 posts

163 months

Tuesday 29th November 2011
quotequote all
V8TVR1978 said:
Bernard: Are you in the Seattle/Renton area???????????????????????
Yes, I'm in Seattle (Beacon Hill) and the car is in a storage facility in Kent (adjacent to Renton)

Best,
B.