Another Cars and Coffee crash - whats going wrong?

Another Cars and Coffee crash - whats going wrong?

Author
Discussion

Carsie

Original Poster:

845 posts

162 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
As above, on this mornings Jalopnik, there's another video of a Viper exiting a venue, accelerating hard and then promptly stuffing it sideways into the kerb; I've seen similar "tank slapping" results on other videos as well.

My question is - what's the driver doing wrong, what should he have done to maintain control? and I mean from a technical point of view.

Thought I'd post in this section to the racing fraternity smile

Link: https://jalopnik.com/local-dodge-viper-leaving-car...






HustleRussell

18,492 posts

118 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Presumably he was trying to just do a quick launch / a big number eleven?
His first mistake was having some steering angle on when he set the wheels spinning which meant that instead of going straight when he lit the tyres up the car was going to go around. His second mistake was being too stupid to recognise this and/or too proud in front of the assembled crowd to immediately abort his stunt, get out of the throttle and into the brakes
His third mistake, having decided he wasn’t going to reduce the throttle at all, was being far too slow to apply opposite lock. With that amount of throttle and yaw rate he was going to hit the kerb anyway but by the by, he was far too slow to apply opposite lock.
Clearly the talent : power ratio was not where it needed to be which is often the case with these ‘showing off in front of groups of men’ scenarios.

R8Steve

4,150 posts

133 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Carsie said:
My question is - what's the driver doing wrong, what should he have done to maintain control?
Stop showing off would be a good start. hehe

What they are doing requires commitment, you either need to keep on the throttle or let off early enough to avoid it in the first place.

It's usually when they put it into second, wheels still spinning and the extra dollop of torque along with some steering angle creates a larger slide than they expected. They let off, the car grips and spears off in the other direction into whatever kerb/wall/car/pedestrian happens to be there.



midenginedcoupe

5,173 posts

90 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
My IQ dropped 15 points just watching the first 30s of that video.

Morans. Every single last one of them.

SG167

82 posts

73 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
midenginedcoupe said:
My IQ dropped 15 points just watching the first 30s of that video.

Morans. Every single last one of them.
"moron"

midenginedcoupe

5,173 posts

90 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
SG167 said:
midenginedcoupe said:
My IQ dropped 15 points just watching the first 30s of that video.

Morans. Every single last one of them.
"moron"


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/get-a-brain-morans

Kawasicki

7,939 posts

193 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
The driver is not actually driving the vehicle. The driver is basically a passenger, in fact the driver is often worse than a passenger, because they often do exactly the wrong thing at the wrong time. It's like they want to crash.

It's all a bit sad really. My advice to owners of performance cars who can't drive...

1. Make sure the stability control is on. It's tuned for people like you.
2. If you have no stability control...never, ever, use the performance.
3. Spend a little money learning how to drive, it's not hard.

Why would anyone buy an amazing set of golf clubs if I can't even hit the ball? Tragic.

SG167

82 posts

73 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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midenginedcoupe said:
ha my bad

RL17

876 posts

51 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
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Might have to curb his enthusiasm next time....

Carsie

Original Poster:

845 posts

162 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
R8Steve said:
What they are doing requires commitment, you either need to keep on the throttle or let off early enough to avoid it in the first place.

It's usually when they put it into second, wheels still spinning and the extra dollop of torque along with some steering angle creates a larger slide than they expected. They let off, the car grips and spears off in the other direction into whatever kerb/wall/car/pedestrian happens to be there.
Thanks Hustle and R8, your answers are in line with what I thought but wanted an answer from the racing fraternity. i.e commit and hold it, but I think as you said R8 it's when the gear change comes and it grips throwing it in the opposite direction that mayhem ensues, then the disaster severity depends upon how fast they can recover it

There's another clip showing two Corvettes at the lights, car behind is following. Lights go green, they go for it and the ensuing snaking is risible - again I couldn't fathom how badly it went wrong.

So if I got this right...the correct way is...

1. Don't accelerate until everything's pointing in the right direction

2. If it goes- steer into it sharpish and hold it

3. Don't lift off, rather ease off

4. Don't change gear until everything's pointing in the right direction

5. All of the above in nano seconds

6. Visit M&S/Next/Boss WHY

I'm not going to go out and try the above hehe but I do like to push the XJR sometimes but then again it's got traction control; it was the technicalities of yaw, slip and traction that I was interested in.

Thnx again guys.



Carsie

Original Poster:

845 posts

162 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
RL17 said:
Might have to curb his enthusiasm next time....
Funny...smile


Kawasicki

7,939 posts

193 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Carsie said:
R8Steve said:
What they are doing requires commitment, you either need to keep on the throttle or let off early enough to avoid it in the first place.

It's usually when they put it into second, wheels still spinning and the extra dollop of torque along with some steering angle creates a larger slide than they expected. They let off, the car grips and spears off in the other direction into whatever kerb/wall/car/pedestrian happens to be there.
Thanks Hustle and R8, your answers are in line with what I thought but wanted an answer from the racing fraternity. i.e commit and hold it, but I think as you said R8 it's when the gear change comes and it grips throwing it in the opposite direction that mayhem ensues, then the disaster severity depends upon how fast they can recover it

There's another clip showing two Corvettes at the lights, car behind is following. Lights go green, they go for it and the ensuing snaking is risible - again I couldn't fathom how badly it went wrong.

So if I got this right...the correct way is...

1. Don't accelerate until everything's pointing in the right direction

2. If it goes- steer into it sharpish and hold it

3. Don't lift off, rather ease off

4. Don't change gear until everything's pointing in the right direction

5. All of the above in nano seconds

6. Visit M&S/Next/Boss WHY

I'm not going to go out and try the above hehe but I do like to push the XJR sometimes but then again it's got traction control; it was the technicalities of yaw, slip and traction that I was interested in.

Thnx again guys.
The technicalities are fairly easy. If the rear wheels start to spin, the car loses directional stability. The car yaws slightly one direction or the other. The untrained driver doesn't pay attention to this first yaw motion or is frozen solid with fear...doesn't matter which, the result is the same...they initially don't steer enough to keep the car traveling on the correct path.

After a second or two the car starts to build cornering force in the direction of yaw, so it is plain as day to the driver that the car needs to be corrected, they apply corrective lock and back off the throttle...at the same time.

The weight shifts forward, the front tyres get more lateral grip and the cars starts to yaw in the other direction, like a pendulum with stored energy.

The problem is the driver doesn't know when to unwind off this corrective steering, so the car swings past the straight ahead (no body slip angle) and starts to yaw in the other direction, with the steering wheel still pointing in that direction the yaw angle gets even bigger. Repeat until spin or crash.


Carsie

Original Poster:

845 posts

162 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Got it now, thnx Kawasoki; a good explanation. Cheers beer

Kawasicki

7,939 posts

193 months

Wednesday 6th December 2017
quotequote all
Carsie said:
Got it now, thnx Kawasoki; a good explanation. Cheers beer
You're welcome.

Daston

5,677 posts

161 months

Thursday 31st May 2018
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I was always told to look in the direction you want to be going in and apply steering to that angle. You then won't yaw the other way quite as violently.

Seems to have worked the few times I have applied the throttle with too much enthusiasm when exiting bends.

midenginedcoupe

5,173 posts

90 months

Wednesday 25th March
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This thread be like

RVVUNM

1,871 posts

167 months

Wednesday 25th March
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Best bit of advise I could give is "Grow up" and don't be a tt. I visit a number of cars and coffee events and dispite having a fast car and the crowds videoing i resist the temptation and pull away sensibly.