Discussion
The Selfish Gene said:
is that true at the top top level though?
F1, WEC etc - does the equipment genuinely at that level not highlight gender differences?
I don't know - I've never driven that sort of car
I don't see how it can. You have the likes of Ant Davidson, a skinny little shortarse who is an ex-F1 driver and has competed at the top level of WEC including a 2nd in LMP1 at Le Mans . So clearly physical strength is not a requirement for top level motorsport. F1, WEC etc - does the equipment genuinely at that level not highlight gender differences?
I don't know - I've never driven that sort of car
No but it would give others a chance if they aren't at the level. There's a bike race series for disabled because the differences compared to able bodied racers are so huge that they wouldn't be able to compete otherwise.
Separate championships have their place i.e. Womens Football - that exists because no woman can compete at top level yet. It also provides them with a chance of paid contracts. But motorsport should provide a level playing field already as fitness/strength is less of an issue.
I'm also unsure of it's level or who will race in it. I think it there needs to be more attention paid to lower categories such as karting and getting girls into it at that level as well. There are several at the local kart club and they do just fine. So perhaps they'll be able to get a drive in the W series. But without a push at lower levels the W series is going to struggle to get decent talent in seats.
But then as a man it doesn't affect me. or any of us really
Separate championships have their place i.e. Womens Football - that exists because no woman can compete at top level yet. It also provides them with a chance of paid contracts. But motorsport should provide a level playing field already as fitness/strength is less of an issue.
I'm also unsure of it's level or who will race in it. I think it there needs to be more attention paid to lower categories such as karting and getting girls into it at that level as well. There are several at the local kart club and they do just fine. So perhaps they'll be able to get a drive in the W series. But without a push at lower levels the W series is going to struggle to get decent talent in seats.
But then as a man it doesn't affect me. or any of us really
If half the kids who competed in Cadets were female, there would be plenty of girls comming up through the ranks to feed the likes of F4, GP3, GP2 F3 Euroseries etc etc.
If these people really want to support girls in motorsport then maybe they should go and encourage young girls into Cadets, pick out the stars and put them on a management contract, like Hamilton was, and suport only the winners to the top. If there's any space for a girls only championship it's in cadets, and in reality, that's pushing it a bit becasue that's still saying they can't compete with the boys, but if it gets 30 8yr old girls on the karting grid, is it that bad?
Like others have said, fitness and strength are not a limiting factor in Motorsport. Technique, A Feel for the car's movement, Intelligence and Engineering knowledge along with a ruthless arrogance is. All availble in both genders.
If these people really want to support girls in motorsport then maybe they should go and encourage young girls into Cadets, pick out the stars and put them on a management contract, like Hamilton was, and suport only the winners to the top. If there's any space for a girls only championship it's in cadets, and in reality, that's pushing it a bit becasue that's still saying they can't compete with the boys, but if it gets 30 8yr old girls on the karting grid, is it that bad?
Like others have said, fitness and strength are not a limiting factor in Motorsport. Technique, A Feel for the car's movement, Intelligence and Engineering knowledge along with a ruthless arrogance is. All availble in both genders.
I have absolutely no problem with nurturing new talent, for bursaries, sponsorship, management contracts, and the like. But a separate series?
I mean, come on, are we going to have a Blacks-only series? A Gays-only series? Your skin colour, gender, and sexual orientation mean absolutely nothing in motorsport.
This is not empowering women, it is saying that they should be sidelined into their own series so they don't bother the men in the "real" series.
As a way of getting women into motorsport, this is entirely the wrong way to go about it.
I mean, come on, are we going to have a Blacks-only series? A Gays-only series? Your skin colour, gender, and sexual orientation mean absolutely nothing in motorsport.
This is not empowering women, it is saying that they should be sidelined into their own series so they don't bother the men in the "real" series.
As a way of getting women into motorsport, this is entirely the wrong way to go about it.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Thursday 11th October 13:05
super7 said:
If these people really want to support girls in motorsport then maybe they should go and encourage young girls into Cadets, pick out the stars and put them on a management contract, like Hamilton was, and suport only the winners to the top. If there's any space for a girls only championship it's in cadets, and in reality, that's pushing it a bit becasue that's still saying they can't compete with the boys, but if it gets 30 8yr old girls on the karting grid, is it that bad?
I agree. And, as you say, even that's pushing it. dhutch said:
super7 said:
If half the kids who competed in Cadets were female, there would be plenty of girls comming up through the ranks to feed the likes of F4, GP3, GP2 F3 Euroseries etc etc.
But thats a big IF surely?There would be the same number of Johns that would have made it by being well enough funded and talented enough
The Selfish Gene said:
exactly - if half the cadets were called John - there wouldn't be any more Johns that make it through to the higher ranks.
There would be the same number of Johns that would have made it by being well enough funded and talented enough
Ok, running with your analogy....There would be the same number of Johns that would have made it by being well enough funded and talented enough
If being called John was a barrier to getting into motorsport, or people called John were actively ignored simply because they were called John, or ridiculed for being called John, then by definition there would be a less people called John making it through the higher ranks. Being called John would be an active impediment to progressing.
If you changed things so that the fact they were called John was simply a non-issue, and encouraged people to believe that being called John is not a barrier to motorsport, then you are more likely to see more people called John making it through the ranks. Simply because there are more of them.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Ok, running with your analogy....
If being called John was a barrier to getting into motorsport, or people called John were actively ignored simply because they were called John, or ridiculed for being called John, then by definition there would be a less people called John making it through the higher ranks. Being called John would be an active impediment to progressing.
If you changed things so that the fact they were called John was simply a non-issue, and encouraged people to believe that being called John is not a barrier to motorsport, then you are more likely to see more people called John making it through the ranks. Simply because there are more of them.
being called John isn't in any way a barrier though.If being called John was a barrier to getting into motorsport, or people called John were actively ignored simply because they were called John, or ridiculed for being called John, then by definition there would be a less people called John making it through the higher ranks. Being called John would be an active impediment to progressing.
If you changed things so that the fact they were called John was simply a non-issue, and encouraged people to believe that being called John is not a barrier to motorsport, then you are more likely to see more people called John making it through the ranks. Simply because there are more of them.
Not having enough money first, then talent second are the barriers
It's that simple.
No amount of do goodery will help.
If there was a woman and desire with enough money she would be in formula one.
She might be at the back but she would be there.
It's just a non starter. It's like saying why aren't there more male dinner ladies, primary school teachers etc - because they don't want to do it.
If you then take the ones that do want to do it, but make it super competitive and really expensive..................
I didn't say male white privilege doesn't exist (incidentally how do you know I'm white and/or male?)
what I said was, when it comes to motorsport the first issue is money, and the second is talent.
Nobody gives a f
k - you could be a black giraffe with herpes - if you're fast and you can afford it, you are driving the cars.
what I said was, when it comes to motorsport the first issue is money, and the second is talent.
Nobody gives a f
k - you could be a black giraffe with herpes - if you're fast and you can afford it, you are driving the cars.Clockwork Cupcake said:
It always amuses me that the people who say Male White Privilege doesn't exist are generally white males.
it also amuses me greatly that people assume being male and white has offered any privilege at all.There are plenty of white males that have had f
k all privilege in any way. They just don't bleat on like every other demographic that thinks the world owes them something because of what they were born as.The Selfish Gene said:
it also amuses me greatly that people assume being male and white has offered any privilege at all.
I rest my case.
The Selfish Gene said:
incidentally how do you know I'm white and/or male?
I don't. But it was said in general rather than aimed directly at you. That's why I didn't quote you when I posted that comment. Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Thursday 11th October 14:48
The Selfish Gene said:
I didn't say male white privilege doesn't exist (incidentally how do you know I'm white and/or male?)
what I said was, when it comes to motorsport the first issue is money, and the second is talent.
Nobody gives a fk - you could be a black giraffe with herpes - if you're fast and you can afford it, you are driving the cars.
Money is not nescesariilly the first issue....... did Hamilton's dad have swhat I said was, when it comes to motorsport the first issue is money, and the second is talent.
Nobody gives a f
k - you could be a black giraffe with herpes - if you're fast and you can afford it, you are driving the cars.t loads of cash to throw at Karting? Don't think so? He was spotted because he was achieving better results than he should have, given the amount of money his dad spending! It was at that point people started fighting over who was going to finance him... (if i remember the story correctly!)The biggest issue is getting kids on the track where they can be seen and for them to want to do it. And you don't need a fortune for that.... I did it.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
The Selfish Gene said:
Nobody gives a fk - you could be a black giraffe with herpes - if you're fast and you can afford it, you are driving the cars.
But they do give a fk - you could be a black giraffe with herpes - if you're fast and you can afford it, you are driving the cars.k. That's the point. It motor racing, speed and money is all that matters. Really it is.
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