2019 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and all other)!
Discussion
chunder27 said:
Bird got 8 years, for some reason seems to take performance enhancing stuff, probably something to do with concentration or something.
So to Tommi vs Colin. It is results that matter, I would rather have 4 titles than one, as would anyone surely? Both were amazing.
And for the pathetic jibing on here, grow a pair for goodness sake. Its comment, just disagree if you want, no need to be so uppity.
So to Tommi vs Colin. It is results that matter, I would rather have 4 titles than one, as would anyone surely? Both were amazing.
And for the pathetic jibing on here, grow a pair for goodness sake. Its comment, just disagree if you want, no need to be so uppity.
chunder27 said:
They spend their money unwisely, look at Ford this year, no decent drivers, no sponsor despite winning the series for two years, all because of one man.
The car is good enough, the drivers aren't.
One would question why a team who have won 3 Championships in the last two seasons can't find a sponsor. The answer is probably an uncomfortable truth for the WRC, so none of the WRC journalists (or more accurately PR men) have raised it.The car is good enough, the drivers aren't.
Aren't you clever, in fact I think you might be the cleverest person on here, look at you with your memes. #facepalm. Either way who looks daft now, I sucked you right in fella. It's a bit of fun, lively discussion prompts the thread to grow, you seem to misunderstand what discussion means and think coz I disagree I have a problem. I simply argue my point, right or wrong, if you don't like that, that's your issue, not mine. And you cleverly ignore the points I make about Loeb and Ogier still being great drivers, still being the best of their generation, or did you forget that bit? Yes thought so.
Anyway, moving on.
No idea what the deal is with Msport, the car is clearly good, and I can see their point going for youth, but why not take a wildcard and use different tyres, can they still do that? it worked for Elfyn before. Surely worth a punt.
Just interested to see Ogiers loose surface pace, then we get a better insight into how good the car is and how good he is.
Anyway, moving on.
No idea what the deal is with Msport, the car is clearly good, and I can see their point going for youth, but why not take a wildcard and use different tyres, can they still do that? it worked for Elfyn before. Surely worth a punt.
Just interested to see Ogiers loose surface pace, then we get a better insight into how good the car is and how good he is.
chunder27 said:
And you cleverly ignore the points I make about Loeb and Ogier still being great drivers, still being the best of their generation, or did you forget that bit? Yes thought so.
I think if you look back at the various WRC threads on here over the last 4-5 years, you’ll find I’ve frequently sung both Loeb’s and Ogier praises. You on the other hand have pretty consistently belittled both their talents...The only thing that’s consistent about your posts is their inconsistency
chunder27 said:
Anyway, moving on.
Oh I wish, you keep regurgitating the same old nonsense, then try and turn it around as you’ve done with your little diatribe about Loeb and Ogier.Do us all a favour and grow up.
chunder27 said:
Just interested to see Ogiers loose surface pace, then we get a better insight into how good the car is and how good he is.
Yeh, it’s tough one that, I mean it’s not like we’ve got any real gauge as just how good he is on the loose have we ?Do actually think about what you post before posting it ?
OK lets straighten this out.
I am in favour of drivers winning on other cars, not driving the same marque. Loeb for me has no competition compared to his earlier peers, I wuld say that is fair.
Ogier moaned a lot about things, I am not the only person to say that, but still consistently, in numerous types of car, for that reason he is a step ahead of Loeb for me.
Personally I don't like domination, by anyone be that McRae, Loeb, Gronholm.
that is why I put that 90's and late 70's early 80's as the best eras, as you never really knew who would win each event, unlike now.
You seem to insinuate that no-one should post here unless they know everything, say everything right or can back up their claims/ I do, it might be wrong, but they are my reasons, if they differ to yours, fair enough. You wont be the first or last. do I care, only because you do x
I am in favour of drivers winning on other cars, not driving the same marque. Loeb for me has no competition compared to his earlier peers, I wuld say that is fair.
Ogier moaned a lot about things, I am not the only person to say that, but still consistently, in numerous types of car, for that reason he is a step ahead of Loeb for me.
Personally I don't like domination, by anyone be that McRae, Loeb, Gronholm.
that is why I put that 90's and late 70's early 80's as the best eras, as you never really knew who would win each event, unlike now.
You seem to insinuate that no-one should post here unless they know everything, say everything right or can back up their claims/ I do, it might be wrong, but they are my reasons, if they differ to yours, fair enough. You wont be the first or last. do I care, only because you do x
chunder27 said:
that is why I put that 90's and late 70's early 80's as the best eras, as you never really knew who would win each event, unlike now.
Problem with 70's, 80's and 90,s to me is that to many titles were decided on mechanical failures. Dare I say but I reckon Loeb more than Ogier will have destroyed the opposition during these years. His driving style completely revolutionated the way cars were driven on gravel. His smooth approached would have cost him less failures than most of the nutters off the old days.
That is the way I see it. I am not an expert by any means.
zeb said:
Meeke seems at one with the toyota, definately has the speed. Hoping for a better season for him.
Never really believed in Meeke and completely understood the Citoren decision, but very impressed by his Monte performance. Fingers crossed that this is the start of something good.df76 said:
So.... can we agree that both Loeb and Ogier have been fairly amazing in the past, have dominated and stuffed their opposition when needed. Quite talented.
It looks like it should be a fantastic 2019, shall we move on? Sweden next and not too far off.
100% both have been amazing. So amazing that they make the opposition look like a bunch amateurs. The competitors at that level is always high but their level was (is) so high that it doesn't help the sport.It looks like it should be a fantastic 2019, shall we move on? Sweden next and not too far off.
I remember when Loeb arrived in WRC, well, that was fun to watch. Feeling of panics with the old guard,
E34-3.2 said:
100% both have been amazing. So amazing that they make the opposition look like a bunch amateurs. The competitors at that level is always high but their level was (is) so high that it doesn't help the sport.
I remember when Loeb arrived in WRC, well, that was fun to watch. Feeling of panics with the old guard,
I remember watching his first Tarmac outing in the Xsara on the Sanremo in 2001. I thought the likes of Panizzi, Delacour, Auriol etc were unbeatable on Tarmac. But Loeb made them look pretty second rate along with McRae, Sainz, Makinnen etc. All must have had their eyes well and truly opened that weekend. I wonder if they knew just what a talent they were witnessing ? I remember when Loeb arrived in WRC, well, that was fun to watch. Feeling of panics with the old guard,
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 1st February 09:24
It's odd, he did a few rallies in Saxo's and the odd drive in a Corolla without setting the world alight.
I think his early career was bit like Marc Marquez, Citroen were very aware what they had and guided him in slowly, as MM did on the KTM.
He was staggering on tar as you would expect, but took time, as did Carlos and Didier when they came in to be super quick everywhere on dirt.
What amazed me was his ability to learn, to not make mistakes. I think Elena deserves massive credit, their notes are so detailed. And Seb never changed, unlike most top drivers who do.
I think his early career was bit like Marc Marquez, Citroen were very aware what they had and guided him in slowly, as MM did on the KTM.
He was staggering on tar as you would expect, but took time, as did Carlos and Didier when they came in to be super quick everywhere on dirt.
What amazed me was his ability to learn, to not make mistakes. I think Elena deserves massive credit, their notes are so detailed. And Seb never changed, unlike most top drivers who do.
chunder27 said:
It's odd, he did a few rallies in Saxo's and the odd drive in a Corolla without setting the world alight.
I think his early career was bit like Marc Marquez, Citroen were very aware what they had and guided him in slowly, as MM did on the KTM.
He was staggering on tar as you would expect, but took time, as did Carlos and Didier when they came in to be super quick everywhere on dirt.
What amazed me was his ability to learn, to not make mistakes. I think Elena deserves massive credit, their notes are so detailed. And Seb never changed, unlike most top drivers who do.
I wouldn't say he started slowly. He only started rally driving n 1998 with the Citroën Saxo Trophy then the year after he was crowed champion. Same as Ogier, Citroën rally jeune found him.I think his early career was bit like Marc Marquez, Citroen were very aware what they had and guided him in slowly, as MM did on the KTM.
He was staggering on tar as you would expect, but took time, as did Carlos and Didier when they came in to be super quick everywhere on dirt.
What amazed me was his ability to learn, to not make mistakes. I think Elena deserves massive credit, their notes are so detailed. And Seb never changed, unlike most top drivers who do.
2001 Loeb entered the first junior WRC and won 5 of the 6 races and the title. The only race he didn't win was because he wasn't there!
2002, first race of a short program in WRC for Citroën... he won the Monté carlo but disqualified later. Still he won Germany.
2003, he could have had his first title but was ordered by Citroën to hold position to secure Citroën the title. Frequelin promised him that many title will come his way if he drove like he did that year... the rest is history.
As you mentioned, Daniel is an absolute master at pace notes, not sure his style and intonation in his voice would suit another driver than Loeb though. You can hear that they must have work days and nights to develop that feel between them.
E34-3.2 said:
chunder27 said:
It's odd, he did a few rallies in Saxo's and the odd drive in a Corolla without setting the world alight.
I wouldn't say he started slowly. He only started rally driving n 1998 with the Citroën Saxo Trophy then the year after he was crowed champion. Same as Ogier, Citroën rally jeune found him.2001 Loeb entered the first junior WRC and won 5 of the 6 races and the title. The only race he didn't win was because he wasn't there!
He even spoke of it when he explained why he chose this year to have no19 on the door. 1=jwrc crowns 9 =WRC crowns.
zeb said:
If its any consolation i'd agree with that point. Whilst its undeniable to loebs talent he kind of did to wrc what schumaker did for F1. Healthy competition makes for a better watch.
Surely that’s confusing manufacturer dominance over driver dominance. In both cases would you expect either driver to have left the winning formula?Had VW not pulled out of WRC there’s no way Seb Ogier would’ve joined Ford over securing another crown with VW
E34-3.2 said:
I wouldn't say he started slowly. He only started rally driving n 1998 with the Citroën Saxo Trophy then the year after he was crowed champion. Same as Ogier, Citroën rally jeune found him.
2001 Loeb entered the first junior WRC and won 5 of the 6 races and the title. The only race he didn't win was because he wasn't there!
2002, first race of a short program in WRC for Citroën... he won the Monté carlo but disqualified later. Still he won Germany.
2003, he could have had his first title but was ordered by Citroën to hold position to secure Citroën the title. Frequelin promised him that many title will come his way if he drove like he did that year... the rest is history.
As you mentioned, Daniel is an absolute master at pace notes, not sure his style and intonation in his voice would suit another driver than Loeb though. You can hear that they must have work days and nights to develop that feel between them.
I’ve posted this YT link previously, but just watching the first couple of minutes gives a fantastic insight as to just how smooth the Loeb/Elena combination is :2001 Loeb entered the first junior WRC and won 5 of the 6 races and the title. The only race he didn't win was because he wasn't there!
2002, first race of a short program in WRC for Citroën... he won the Monté carlo but disqualified later. Still he won Germany.
2003, he could have had his first title but was ordered by Citroën to hold position to secure Citroën the title. Frequelin promised him that many title will come his way if he drove like he did that year... the rest is history.
As you mentioned, Daniel is an absolute master at pace notes, not sure his style and intonation in his voice would suit another driver than Loeb though. You can hear that they must have work days and nights to develop that feel between them.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jZJjpQtJYuc
And another. It looks like a slightly quick Sunday drive with a noisy gearbox and a couple of handbrake turns thrown in for good measure !! :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=12gK_2hGo7I
Phil Collins of pink Sierra Cosworth fame, used to say he aimed to be either off the throttle, or fully on it. Yet listening to Loeb, you can hear/see he’s so far away from that concept ... Saying that, Collins did make quite a name for himself for binning it and plucking defeat from the jaws of victory on several occasions ...
I have a mate who’s ex-Ralliart. He went freelance and ended up doing on event liaison/tech support for one of the brake suppliers to the WRC.
One of his jobs was to measure and report disc and pad thicknesses/wear at the end of every leg.
If new pads were 12 mm thick, Loeb’s would be worn down 1-2mm at the end of the leg. His teammates pads would be down to 4-6mm or less.
Such was the lack of wear and heat to Loeb’s discs pads, they would be used on his teammates cars the following day ...
To go that fast, and not wear your brakes out, you need huge trust and faith in your navigators notes, but also in your car’s ability. Clearly Loeb was a master of maintaining speed/momentum on the approach to, and through corners, like no other.
Again the importance of Elena is at play here. I was sire that the reason Meeke kept crashing was to do with notes and just maybe them not always being spot on or maybe even Meeke ignoring them and trying to push beyond a 5 to make it a 6 or something. Needs a strong hand.
Colin went through a few changes with his nav, as did Tommi but only really because Seppo retired. Look at Burns and Reid, I don't know if Ogier has every had anyone else sat with him. Then you compare to Delecour who seemed to have new navs far too regularly.
it really is a team thing and the navs get so little credit
Colin went through a few changes with his nav, as did Tommi but only really because Seppo retired. Look at Burns and Reid, I don't know if Ogier has every had anyone else sat with him. Then you compare to Delecour who seemed to have new navs far too regularly.
it really is a team thing and the navs get so little credit
Yes, copilotes are really a huge part of the making of the Champion. Julien Ingrassia seems to have develop a similar technic than Elena with his voice intonation as well.
thank you Slipdiff for the videos.
I have always like the following one with the Xsara, great pace notes by Daniel:
https://youtu.be/WVp7W9dySnU
If you find one of Julien and Seb, even if you don't speak French you will notice a similar voice tone on certain syllable.
thank you Slipdiff for the videos.
I have always like the following one with the Xsara, great pace notes by Daniel:
https://youtu.be/WVp7W9dySnU
If you find one of Julien and Seb, even if you don't speak French you will notice a similar voice tone on certain syllable.
Was fortunate enough to be at the Monte last week. Ogier is so so smooth in comparison to Neuville and Tannak who always look like they’re driving at 10/10ths everywhere.
Loeb, fantastic as usual. Ridiculous to think he’s only had one or two days testing to set up the Hyundai. On the subject of Hyundai, Mikkelson could be in serious trouble if he doesn’t up his game.
Evans was unlucky with his accident, although he’s not factory driver quality in my opinion, the drive should have gone to Breen. Tidemand will be fast with time, and definitely deserves his two M-sport appearances in the big car. Sunninen is another who will be silly fast in a few years, he’s only just turned 25 and was setting decent times after his mistake on the Thursday.
Gus Greensmith and Rhys Yates both performed brilliantly and should be proud, showing how much strength there is in British rallying.
Sweden next: If I was a betting man I’d back a Toyota 1-2-3 with Tannak, Meeke and JML in third. It will be interesting to see what Gronholm does, I think he’ll surprise a few people and be top 8..
On a different note, is anyone heading to the revamped North west stages? Entry looks mega.. Tour of Epynt and Agbo before that though! Busy month of rallying coming soon....
Loeb, fantastic as usual. Ridiculous to think he’s only had one or two days testing to set up the Hyundai. On the subject of Hyundai, Mikkelson could be in serious trouble if he doesn’t up his game.
Evans was unlucky with his accident, although he’s not factory driver quality in my opinion, the drive should have gone to Breen. Tidemand will be fast with time, and definitely deserves his two M-sport appearances in the big car. Sunninen is another who will be silly fast in a few years, he’s only just turned 25 and was setting decent times after his mistake on the Thursday.
Gus Greensmith and Rhys Yates both performed brilliantly and should be proud, showing how much strength there is in British rallying.
Sweden next: If I was a betting man I’d back a Toyota 1-2-3 with Tannak, Meeke and JML in third. It will be interesting to see what Gronholm does, I think he’ll surprise a few people and be top 8..
On a different note, is anyone heading to the revamped North west stages? Entry looks mega.. Tour of Epynt and Agbo before that though! Busy month of rallying coming soon....
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