2020 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)

2020 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)

Author
Discussion

Drumroll

1,697 posts

70 months

Friday 7th February
quotequote all
DelicaL400 said:
ArnageWRC said:
A
Anyway, the BRC starts tomorrow, with the Cambrian Rally....
Even less entries than last year I think and very few R5s? It seems those drivers with the money to run R5s are preferring to do such as the North West Stages. I'm struggling to see what the point of the BRC is these days, they're not even getting extra mileage on the Cambrian.
Bit of a catch 22, not enough entries to make the additional stage miles viable.

DelicaL400

307 posts

61 months

Friday 7th February
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
Bit of a catch 22, not enough entries to make the additional stage miles viable.
Which goes back to what's the point of the BRC. There seemingly isn't the demand for a championship that has 60-70 mile forest events rather than the usual 40-45.



ArnageWRC

1,019 posts

109 months

Friday 7th February
quotequote all
It's not too long ago that a BRC forest event was over 2 days and approx 120-150 mile of stages.....

You'd have to conclude that there isn't the appetite for 'proper' forest events in the BRC; competitors prefer 45 mile BTRDA events.

DelicaL400

307 posts

61 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
ArnageWRC said:
You'd have to conclude that there isn't the appetite for 'proper' forest events in the BRC; competitors prefer 45 mile BTRDA events.
16 BRC starters. 84 BTRDA. It doesn't seem that long ago since the opening BTRDA round had 180 entries. The cars and crews are still available but it looks like the preference is for tarmac/closed roads now. I don't think the BRC helps itself by having such a large registration fee - £900 for BRC1 and even £700 for the juniors.

I don't know what the solution is. Forest events with even less mileage to reduce the entry fees and reduce the burden on organisers in terms of providing marshal/rescue cover? A BRC comprising entirely closed road events? Probably far too radical for a sport which is mostly stuck in the past.

thepawbroon

731 posts

134 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
Inevitably, Interclub & National rallying will be dominated by closed-roads in Britain, the same as Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands....

Two main reasons:

1) easier step up from road rallies / auto solos / targa rallies / circuit rallies etc and cheaper for cars & tyres.

2) bringing the rally to the people will generate more public awareness ultimately sponsorship for crews and events. In many cases, local authorities are financially supporting closed road rallies as a means to bring tourists to the location. This is a much easier thing to sell when the cars are not hidden away on an airfield or forest.

DelicaL400

307 posts

61 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
thepawbroon said:
2) bringing the rally to the people will generate more public awareness
That has been rallying's biggest failure in recent years I think. Long gone are the days when the general public were aware of rallying via Grandstand etc. But instead of developing the sport and marketing it to the general public it's been hidden away with events often in the middle of nowhere with little/no promotion to anyone other than those already with an interest in rallying (events like Mull are the exception). I realise spectators are seen as a pain in the rear to many organisers (understandably) but how many of today's organisers/marshals/competitors starting in their role without first having spectated on an event? If there are very few young folk spectating now there where are the next generation of organisers/marshals/competitors going to come from?

This forum is a good indicator of how much awareness there is of rallying now - very few posts about it and most of those are by the same few people. You'd think a forum full of car people would be an ideal tool to promote rallying and get people involved in events yet there doesn't seem to be much of that happening.

I think more closed road events is the only way rallying has a chance of growing again.


ArnageWRC

1,019 posts

109 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
DelicaL400 said:
This forum is a good indicator of how much awareness there is of rallying now - very few posts about it and most of those are by the same few people. You'd think a forum full of car people would be an ideal tool to promote rallying and get people involved in events yet there doesn't seem to be much of that happening.

I think more closed road events is the only way rallying has a chance of growing again.
I'm afraid you're right - it's the same on most other car/motorsport forums (apart from one rally forum); rallying just doesn't seem to be that much of an interest to people. I do wonder were the decline started, and why.
It has to be said, with the dawn of the internet age, and later social media, maybe the sport just hasn't moved with it, and just expected things to continue as they were. There are a lot of other competing sporting/ leisure interests nowadays, which are far easier to watch/follow.....

DelicaL400

307 posts

61 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
ArnageWRC said:
maybe the sport just hasn't moved with it,
Exactly that. It's stuck somewhere around 1978.

Even the one rally forum is pretty much dead these days!

Take the rally to the general public and they might have a look and get hooked, hide it away and do no promotion and they won't.


Drumroll

1,697 posts

70 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
I love my rallying, but get to work on a Monday morning and it is difficult to explain to someone who doesn't know it.

DelicaL400

307 posts

61 months

Saturday 8th February
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
I love my rallying, but get to work on a Monday morning and it is difficult to explain to someone who doesn't know it.
Aye, for some reason colleagues thought it weird that folk used to enjoy driving into forests late at night and sleeping in their cars ahead of a rally! I miss the smell of bacon butties on a cold frosty morning while waiting for an event to start.

ceesvdelst

255 posts

5 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
It doesn't really bother me that people don't like watching it, I prefer it, less people to have to deal with at events most of the time. Attending events like the RAC in the early 2000's was a nightmare, horrendous traffic jams and parking.

Sadly the insurance companies have pretty much ruined rallying as a spectator sport, most single venues that were available to watch at are now either pointless to attend or you stand the chance of ruining the event if you do sneak in and someone sees or catches you. In the past you could go to these and as long as you were not stupid have a great day, not now.

You have rubbish like the MSV events that are pretty much just sprints with rally rules, and this leaves forest events which are great if you are in certain parts of the UK, awful if not, and the hopefully new ever increasing wave of closed roads events.

But I do fear that they are one incident away form being dropped again, you can imagine it. It's great for the moment that these are making headway and bringing us in line with pretty much the rest of the world, but I do fer one biggie and we're done with them.

Drumroll

1,697 posts

70 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
ceesvdelst said:
It doesn't really bother me that people don't like watching it, I prefer it, less people to have to deal with at events most of the time. Attending events like the RAC in the early 2000's was a nightmare, horrendous traffic jams and parking.

Sadly the insurance companies have pretty much ruined rallying as a spectator sport, most single venues that were available to watch at are now either pointless to attend or you stand the chance of ruining the event if you do sneak in and someone sees or catches you. In the past you could go to these and as long as you were not stupid have a great day, not now.

You have rubbish like the MSV events that are pretty much just sprints with rally rules, and this leaves forest events which are great if you are in certain parts of the UK, awful if not, and the hopefully new ever increasing wave of closed roads events.

But I do fear that they are one incident away form being dropped again, you can imagine it. It's great for the moment that these are making headway and bringing us in line with pretty much the rest of the world, but I do fer one biggie and we're done with them.
Is that you chunder27, under different name?

Just that it seems the same moaning we used to get from chunder27 (who hasn't been on here since about the same time as ceessvdelst, started posting.

ArnageWRC

1,019 posts

109 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
To be honest, the Circuit Rally championship is pretty successful, and is an example of giving the customer (i;e the competitors) what they want; a series run on circuits during the winter months, no road sections, and seemingly value for money.
As already said, people aren't interested in BRC forest events, with the £900 registration fee, recce, other costs, etc

However, I've no idea what the solution is; other countries manage to make it work, but we can't/ don't.

df76

Original Poster:

2,143 posts

228 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
ArnageWRC said:
To be honest, the Circuit Rally championship is pretty successful, and is an example of giving the customer (i;e the competitors) what they want; a series run on circuits during the winter months, no road sections, and seemingly value for money.
As already said, people aren't interested in BRC forest events, with the £900 registration fee, recce, other costs, etc

However, I've no idea what the solution is; other countries manage to make it work, but we can't/ don't.
Yes, seems to be the way. Forest rally costs for competitors must be scary. Rallying on tarmac at a single circuit venue is much more manageable and clearly what competitors want at the moment. Also seem to be getting reasonable crowds. All positive.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,352 posts

173 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
ArnageWRC said:
I'm afraid you're right - it's the same on most other car/motorsport forums (apart from one rally forum); rallying just doesn't seem to be that much of an interest to people. I do wonder were the decline started, and why.
I think a couple of things.

RAC rally, sorry rally GB no longer visiting the stately homes. Back in the day you'd get nearly 20k spectators on each venue on the Sunday. That's essentially rivalling even today's football Division 1 league attendances.

Burns/McRae, shifted what was deemed possible for British drivers and made the WRC a reality.

When they left, the BRC was left with nothing, even with F2 in the 90's it wasn't a big thing anymore.

Landowners don't want rallying on their land anymore. If rallying was invented today you'd have no chance of finding any venue that would take it on.

Forestry commission and insurance make running events very expensive. If you want to do a 45 mile clubby you would be spending over a grand for 50 mins of competition. Yet a club race is about £450.

WRC is behind a paywall on the internet! So the casual observer can't see it.

The sport is full of luddites, and run by them too!

No one can make any money at it ( in the uk). There can only be a handful of people that make money out of rallying in the Uk and one of those is Malcolm Wilson and another would be Elfyn Evans. Then maybe the CofC for Wales rally GB.

I think one of the BRC rounds should be a Sunday Run revival, an 8 stage rally covering the stately homes of the midlands. Some of these venues haven't had a rally for 20 years. IIRC Harewood House was last used in 1990.

Closed road rallying will make a difference and raise interest. But I suspect that it is at the cost of forest rallying as there are not enough drivers to go around. Works in Belgium though?


GravelBen

13,937 posts

180 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Closed road rallying will make a difference and raise interest. But I suspect that it is at the cost of forest rallying as there are not enough drivers to go around. Works in Belgium though?
As far as I know the UK is probably the only place in the world where rallying hasn't traditionally been mostly on closed public roads?

Here in NZ there are a few rallies (or some stages of rallies) on private forestry roads, but by far the majority is on closed public roads.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,352 posts

173 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
GravelBen said:
As far as I know the UK is probably the only place in the world where rallying hasn't traditionally been mostly on closed public roads?

Here in NZ there are a few rallies (or some stages of rallies) on private forestry roads, but by far the majority is on closed public roads.
yes this is correct, The old road traffic act allowed a road to be closed, but you still had to obey the traffic rules. This changed a couple of years ago. Needed for a lot of reasons, but mainly because it is getting harder to use forestry commission land.

ceesvdelst

255 posts

5 months

Sunday 9th February
quotequote all
Sorry drum roll I have no idea what you are talking about, merely someone who watches rallying all over the world, and sees a few things have changed in the last few years in the UK compared to the rest of the world in terms of access for fans.

Actually this is also affecting the road racing in Ireland on bikes, no idea if the rallying side is being affected as much though.

thepawbroon

731 posts

134 months

Monday 10th February
quotequote all
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
GravelBen said:
As far as I know the UK is probably the only place in the world where rallying hasn't traditionally been mostly on closed public roads?

Here in NZ there are a few rallies (or some stages of rallies) on private forestry roads, but by far the majority is on closed public roads.
yes this is correct, The old road traffic act allowed a road to be closed, but you still had to obey the traffic rules. This changed a couple of years ago. Needed for a lot of reasons, but mainly because it is getting harder to use forestry commission land.
Agree with both - putting "the UK on an equal footing with other European countries and strengthen the UK’s position as a world leader in the motor sport industry" was specifically mentioned in the original government consultation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/propos...

It's working - the closed-road rallies we have seen since (Tendring/Clacton, North West Stages, Three Shires, Rali Bae Ceredigion, Mull Rally and Jim Clark) were all massively popular. One more has been formally announced (Coast 2 Coast around Stranraer) and one more soon to be launched nearer London. Most forest rallies and a lot of single-venues are struggling for entries. The writing is on the wall!

I'd like to see a club try a smaller closed-road rally, perhaps 2 stages run 3 times - 30-35 miles, recce & event all in one day....just to show it's possible.



Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,352 posts

173 months

Monday 10th February
quotequote all
I'd like to see something different with closed roads, such as a long course (+ 8 miles) hill climb or a time trial open to anything , single seaters, saloons, bikes etc, road cars but maybe 20 miles in length.