Extreme-e electric off road championship

Extreme-e electric off road championship

Author
Discussion

ChocolateFrog

11,845 posts

137 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
SmoothCriminal said:
They don't need the change that's the problem.

They've shoe horned it in to get these stupid mixed teams so they can get women into competative motorsport and try and get viewers by having big named males involved because they know if it was a female series they wouldn't have half as many, exactly the same as why w series going to be attached to f1 events.

The females laps were visibly slower to the average viewer.

I can't see races being close with the kind of environments they are racing in.

If its not dust it will be sand at the next event or snow in the Arctic or mud in the jungle , this series is just a vanity project for some of the biggest carbon emmitors on the planet to lecture the normal man about a "climate emergency".

I'm sure all that dust that was being chucked into the atmosphere while they were racing about really helped the polar bears.
The BBC have already published an article saying how the woman were on par with the men. Until you read the actual article and they're not.

//j17

3,679 posts

187 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
rscott said:
simonrockman said:
kalexan273 said:
The change over is contrived and should be replaced by allowing a release as soon as it's safe, otherwise it's pointless. The penalties seem completely unfair as the cars are equally matched to a greater extent and the cars with clean runs were within 15s of each other, a 3 minute penalty is plain stupid.
I disagree. By making the change a comfortable time the racing is about driving and not how quickly you can get into a car.

I rather enjoyed it, And it fills a gap between Bahrain and Italy.
GT racing has minimum pit stop times too - seems a very sensible move when driver changes are required.
They have learned the lesson most recently taught by Formula E- that competitive racing driver changes result in mechanics being knocked over and competitors driving without belts properly fastened.
Odd that teams manage to do it with no issues, even after being awake for 30+ hours at Le Mans every year. Yes, there's a degree to which the car servicing time is longer than the standard driver switch time, but you also get 'incomplete stint' driver change stops where that isn't the case. You just have an official there to monitor safety and things like seat belts, with teams knowing the penalty for upsetting him isn't worth the second or 2 saved by rushing the belts.

civicduty

1,688 posts

167 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
I wonder what criteria there are using to classify the male and female drivers?

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
//j17 said:
HustleRussell said:
rscott said:
simonrockman said:
kalexan273 said:
The change over is contrived and should be replaced by allowing a release as soon as it's safe, otherwise it's pointless. The penalties seem completely unfair as the cars are equally matched to a greater extent and the cars with clean runs were within 15s of each other, a 3 minute penalty is plain stupid.
I disagree. By making the change a comfortable time the racing is about driving and not how quickly you can get into a car.

I rather enjoyed it, And it fills a gap between Bahrain and Italy.
GT racing has minimum pit stop times too - seems a very sensible move when driver changes are required.
They have learned the lesson most recently taught by Formula E- that competitive racing driver changes result in mechanics being knocked over and competitors driving without belts properly fastened.
Odd that teams manage to do it with no issues, even after being awake for 30+ hours at Le Mans every year. Yes, there's a degree to which the car servicing time is longer than the standard driver switch time, but you also get 'incomplete stint' driver change stops where that isn't the case. You just have an official there to monitor safety and things like seat belts, with teams knowing the penalty for upsetting him isn't worth the second or 2 saved by rushing the belts.
Bathurst introduced minimum pit stop times for 2020 - http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/08/08/minimum-p...

WickerBill

784 posts

12 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
civicduty said:
I wonder what criteria there are using to classify the male and female drivers?
I guess the same as any series, the gender specified on your race licence

Ahonen

4,754 posts

243 months

Wednesday 7th April
quotequote all
rscott said:
//j17 said:
HustleRussell said:
rscott said:
simonrockman said:
kalexan273 said:
The change over is contrived and should be replaced by allowing a release as soon as it's safe, otherwise it's pointless. The penalties seem completely unfair as the cars are equally matched to a greater extent and the cars with clean runs were within 15s of each other, a 3 minute penalty is plain stupid.
I disagree. By making the change a comfortable time the racing is about driving and not how quickly you can get into a car.

I rather enjoyed it, And it fills a gap between Bahrain and Italy.
GT racing has minimum pit stop times too - seems a very sensible move when driver changes are required.
They have learned the lesson most recently taught by Formula E- that competitive racing driver changes result in mechanics being knocked over and competitors driving without belts properly fastened.
Odd that teams manage to do it with no issues, even after being awake for 30+ hours at Le Mans every year. Yes, there's a degree to which the car servicing time is longer than the standard driver switch time, but you also get 'incomplete stint' driver change stops where that isn't the case. You just have an official there to monitor safety and things like seat belts, with teams knowing the penalty for upsetting him isn't worth the second or 2 saved by rushing the belts.
Bathurst introduced minimum pit stop times for 2020 - http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/08/08/minimum-p...
To be fair we only have minimum stop times in international GT3 racing where a full service is required, in large part because different cars refuel at different rates and have different fuel consumption. In British GT they do it to manage the costs of wheel guns and staff, which can really add up.

In sprint racing in GT World Challenge Europe the tyres and driver are changed as fast as possible, so races can be won or lost in the pits.

For a race such as this Extreme E there's no reason for minimum stop times. The drivers are athletes and should practice, practice, practice...

simonrockman

6,130 posts

219 months

Wednesday 7th April
quotequote all
Is there anyone reading this who works in Extreme E? If so please DM me.

rdjohn

4,836 posts

159 months

Wednesday 7th April
quotequote all
Ahonen said:
To be fair we only have minimum stop times in international GT3 racing where a full service is required, in large part because different cars refuel at different rates and have different fuel consumption. In British GT they do it to manage the costs of wheel guns and staff, which can really add up.

In sprint racing in GT World Challenge Europe the tyres and driver are changed as fast as possible, so races can be won or lost in the pits.

For a race such as this Extreme E there's no reason for minimum stop times. The drivers are athletes and should practice, practice, practice...
I felt that the penalty added was disproportionate to the speeding offence. It was not a crowded pit lane, no pit-wall and only 3 cars able to box with only swap driver +1. It would make a little more sense to allow 60 secs Box-in to Box-out rather than 45 secs stationary. All eyes are on their car.

Trying to race in that soft sand/dust was also ill thought out. Better to start at 2-min intervals, if necessary. On ice it will be fun, but this weekend Saturday qualifying was more spectacular.

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Thursday 8th April
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
Ahonen said:
To be fair we only have minimum stop times in international GT3 racing where a full service is required, in large part because different cars refuel at different rates and have different fuel consumption. In British GT they do it to manage the costs of wheel guns and staff, which can really add up.

In sprint racing in GT World Challenge Europe the tyres and driver are changed as fast as possible, so races can be won or lost in the pits.

For a race such as this Extreme E there's no reason for minimum stop times. The drivers are athletes and should practice, practice, practice...
I felt that the penalty added was disproportionate to the speeding offence. It was not a crowded pit lane, no pit-wall and only 3 cars able to box with only swap driver +1. It would make a little more sense to allow 60 secs Box-in to Box-out rather than 45 secs stationary. All eyes are on their car.

Trying to race in that soft sand/dust was also ill thought out. Better to start at 2-min intervals, if necessary. On ice it will be fun, but this weekend Saturday qualifying was more spectacular.
I hope they'll review the pit lane limits, but at least the time penalties only affect their qualifying position and don't massively impact their race starts.


They'd had a test event in January and the dust wasn't a problem then.

Kawasicki

9,007 posts

199 months

Thursday 8th April
quotequote all
rscott said:
They'd had a test event in January and the dust wasn't a problem then.
That’s what’s most disturbing about climate change... the absolutely ferocious rate of change.

//j17

3,679 posts

187 months

Thursday 8th April
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
On ice it will be fun, but this weekend Saturday qualifying was more spectacular.
Yep, because ice is never known to occure in the same places as lots of small, loose, light weight particles that can be easilly kicked up and hang in the air...

At least it will be different - the 'zero visibility cloud' will be white, rather than beige.

MB140

2,824 posts

67 months

Thursday 8th April
quotequote all
The Hypno-Toad said:
Adrian W said:
It’s st, should have spent the cash planting trees , lots of rich people playing with toys for the poor people to watch
Pretty much this. ^^^^

Formula E. - It’s just like normal racing but it’s electric.

Extreme E - “The planet is dying! Save the planet! Be sustainable! The oceans are ruined! Here’s some cars. The planet is dying! Save the planet! Be sustainable! The oceans are ruined! Oh and here’s some good looking rich people being patronising,”

Unfortunately, the racing was so over shadowed by the sanctimonious hypocritical bullst it was difficult to tell if it was really any good. Still I’m sure they won’t care what I think. I am just a dinosaur and when the big attraction arrives next year fresh from his 8th championship, I am positive their viewing figures will shoot through the roof.
I’ve been away with work and just watched it on catchup. This pretty much sums it up. Rich people flying about the world to mess about in expensive toys, telling us all to save the planet whilst they jet about in there helicopters, super yachts and private jets.

Not for me.

Ahonen

4,754 posts

243 months

Thursday 8th April
quotequote all
MB140 said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
Adrian W said:
It’s st, should have spent the cash planting trees , lots of rich people playing with toys for the poor people to watch
Pretty much this. ^^^^

Formula E. - It’s just like normal racing but it’s electric.

Extreme E - “The planet is dying! Save the planet! Be sustainable! The oceans are ruined! Here’s some cars. The planet is dying! Save the planet! Be sustainable! The oceans are ruined! Oh and here’s some good looking rich people being patronising,”

Unfortunately, the racing was so over shadowed by the sanctimonious hypocritical bullst it was difficult to tell if it was really any good. Still I’m sure they won’t care what I think. I am just a dinosaur and when the big attraction arrives next year fresh from his 8th championship, I am positive their viewing figures will shoot through the roof.
I’ve been away with work and just watched it on catchup. This pretty much sums it up. Rich people flying about the world to mess about in expensive toys, telling us all to save the planet whilst they jet about in there helicopters, super yachts and private jets.

Not for me.
I was in France a couple of weeks ago and happened to see a sort of preview programme on French Eurosport. Honestly it was nauseating. Interviews with various climate specialists from around the world (often from the countries where the races are scheduled, funnily enough...) and all sorts of earnest nonsense about the reasons for setting up the series. We turned it off after about half an hour for fear of vomiting at the sanctimoniousness of it all.

Greg_D

6,420 posts

210 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
I’ve got a couple of pretty serious reservations about the series.

1) the boat... those things chug through TONS of fuel per mile and are literally the worst polluters on the whole planet. Just ignoring that and not dealing with it overtly will be a major issue for me. Same with the hydrogen fuel cell. Is it green hydrogen??? Doubt it!!!
2) the locations. There is a fundamental problem with being invited/given permission to race in these places... there was absolutely no acknowledgement that Saudi is one of the world’s bad guys. A total whitewash of the issues that they are looking to tackle.
you watch all the worlds players start queueing up to host an event so they can control the narrative of the programme via a sponsorship cheque.

It’ll end up with a display of pretty female racing drivers with white teeth telling us to recycle our bath water or some other irrelevant message.

The series needs to grow some teeth and tackle the blatant hypocrisy or else it will just look like a disney-fied virtue signalling rich man’s folly.

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
Greg_D said:
I’ve got a couple of pretty serious reservations about the series.

1) the boat... those things chug through TONS of fuel per mile and are literally the worst polluters on the whole planet. Just ignoring that and not dealing with it overtly will be a major issue for me. Same with the hydrogen fuel cell. Is it green hydrogen??? Doubt it!!!
2) the locations. There is a fundamental problem with being invited/given permission to race in these places... there was absolutely no acknowledgement that Saudi is one of the world’s bad guys. A total whitewash of the issues that they are looking to tackle.
you watch all the worlds players start queueing up to host an event so they can control the narrative of the programme via a sponsorship cheque.

It’ll end up with a display of pretty female racing drivers with white teeth telling us to recycle our bath water or some other irrelevant message.

The series needs to grow some teeth and tackle the blatant hypocrisy or else it will just look like a disney-fied virtue signalling rich man’s folly.
re point 1 - it's running on low sulphur marine fuel (still not that clean, but better than most shipping) and normally sails at the most fuel efficient speed. It does say "Not electric ... yet" on the side of it, so I guess that's their acknowledgement it's not the best solution.
They're also considering some interesting additions, like a micro-bubble system to reduce friction -https://www.rivieramm.com/news-content-hub/news-content-hub/extreme-e-retrofitting-rms-st-helena-59603 .

The hydrogen is indeed green hydrogen - https://www.theengineer.co.uk/extreme-e-afc-energy...

Do agree that it's not ideal going to Saudi though

LukeBrown66

658 posts

10 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
Saudi are desperate for any sport right now, they know their time is up so are trying to be a hub for all things non oil.

It is pathetic really, but sports like this lap it up as they pay over the odds for everything, which is all these people who run sport care about.

It has become battle of the rights holders, which iw why I will NEVER, EVER pay for any of it.

Kawasicki

9,007 posts

199 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
rscott said:
The hydrogen is indeed green hydrogen - https://www.theengineer.co.uk/extreme-e-afc-energy...
There is no such thing as green hydrogen. It's extremely damaging to the ozone layer.

https://www.nature.com/news/2003/030609/full/news0...

Teddy Lop

4,692 posts

31 months

Saturday 10th April
quotequote all
Ahonen said:
MB140 said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
Adrian W said:
It’s st, should have spent the cash planting trees , lots of rich people playing with toys for the poor people to watch
Pretty much this. ^^^^

Formula E. - It’s just like normal racing but it’s electric.

Extreme E - “The planet is dying! Save the planet! Be sustainable! The oceans are ruined! Here’s some cars. The planet is dying! Save the planet! Be sustainable! The oceans are ruined! Oh and here’s some good looking rich people being patronising,”

Unfortunately, the racing was so over shadowed by the sanctimonious hypocritical bullst it was difficult to tell if it was really any good. Still I’m sure they won’t care what I think. I am just a dinosaur and when the big attraction arrives next year fresh from his 8th championship, I am positive their viewing figures will shoot through the roof.
I’ve been away with work and just watched it on catchup. This pretty much sums it up. Rich people flying about the world to mess about in expensive toys, telling us all to save the planet whilst they jet about in there helicopters, super yachts and private jets.

Not for me.
I was in France a couple of weeks ago and happened to see a sort of preview programme on French Eurosport. Honestly it was nauseating. Interviews with various climate specialists from around the world (often from the countries where the races are scheduled, funnily enough...) and all sorts of earnest nonsense about the reasons for setting up the series. We turned it off after about half an hour for fear of vomiting at the sanctimoniousness of it all.
I switched it on, saw some big belching chimneys onscreen with the narrator "...climate emergency..." and switched it straight off.rolleyes About 1 second thenlaugh

I know I know and yeah, I did expect a bit but thought maybe there'd be some fun racing as well but I just went naaaahhhh.....

Was there some half decent racing at any point, or is it all a bit formula cEebies brought to you by Timmy mallet?

Kawasicki

9,007 posts

199 months

Saturday 10th April
quotequote all
Did anyone else think the cars have a problem with steering/handling straight-ahead stability?

Teddy Lop

4,692 posts

31 months

Kawasicki said:
Did anyone else think the cars have a problem with steering/handling straight-ahead stability?
I think driving blind is perfectly apt, we actually watched a bit of it as it came on following something and oh.... my..... god.... Where the fk does one begin.... I'm hoping its just a PR stunt offering to keep the children happy and perhaps not trying to interfere in the sports we love?

It's a P-P-P - PC police pacifier