2022: BTCC and support series

2022: BTCC and support series

Author
Discussion

Milkyway

Original Poster:

1,349 posts

25 months

Saturday 30th October
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Re the budgets... Do the Drivers or teams get prize money in any form?
( Howevet modest it may be)

Sandpit Steve

4,741 posts

46 months

Saturday 30th October
quotequote all
Milkyway said:
Re the budgets... Do the Drivers or teams get prize money in any form?
( Howevet modest it may be)
The sporting regulations make oblique references to prize money, such as stating that all payments from the organisers to individuals must be declared for tax purposes in the UK.

https://www.btcc.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/20...

Chapters. 1.7 and 6.15 refer.

Teddy Lop

6,094 posts

39 months

Saturday 30th October
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Sandpit Steve said:
Speed Badger said:
Silly question, but how do the BTCC teams actually make money? (As in profit). With the cost of the car builds, premesis, consumables, paying all the staff, hospitality etc. Yes the drivers bring sponsorship, but surely that doesn't cover the entire running costs (and more) for the entire team?
Not unless they’re a factory works team where it’s part of a bigger company’s marketing budget, or they get lucky with a major sponsor or pay-driver. The bigger teams might have other motorsport interests, such as preparing cars for other series.

I imagine that, for most teams, the line on the budget at the start of the season marked ‘profit’, is a similar number to that marked ‘contingencies’, and that by the end of the season most of the money has finished up in the second column! A lot of the shareholders are passionate racer types, and will just as likely spend any surplus on making the car go faster, rather than returning dividends to themselves.

Keeps a lot of people employed though, thanks to the sponsors and TV cash that makes it all possible! clapbow

Edited by Sandpit Steve on Saturday 30th October 11:21
I assumed a lot of ownership was by successful individuals indulging a passion and writing off a load of otherwise taxable profits!

Sandpit Steve

4,741 posts

46 months

Saturday 30th October
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
I assumed a lot of ownership was by successful individuals indulging a passion and writing off a load of otherwise taxable profits!
There’s definitely a fair bit of that among the ‘gentlemen racers’ and the ‘Pro-AM’ GT teams, where it’s not uncommon to see the driver just happening to be a major shareholder in the team sponsor.

A bit like Nikita Mazepin in F1, and as many of us on here would probably do if we had the millions required!

CanoeSniffer

837 posts

59 months

Sunday 31st October
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indigorallye said:
I've always thought BARC should have the 'local' championship on the bill.
Knockhill- SMRC
Croft- DDMC
Oulton- CNC Heads
Snetterton- Snet Saloons
Brands- CMMCS
etc etc.
Classic Touring Car Racing Club thumbup

LukeBrown66

1,448 posts

18 months

Sunday 31st October
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Most racing teams do NOT make money, they try and keep their heads above water, but think about it? the only ways you make money in motorsport are with prizemoney and sponsorship, people dont just give you money for stuff, most of that is for drivers, personal sponsors etc and a lot of that is kit.

A team has to pay out a fair bit in wages, buy loads of kit, a premises, hospitality, who pays for that? either a rich team boss, or a combo of drivers and sponsors brining money in and the budget being carefully sorted pre season.

For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.

I would guess a manufacturer link would be linked to a budget of some kind, so a national dealer type deal with Hyundai, Ford etc might help you with a yearly budget, maybe cheap parts if you need OE stuff, but there are not many of those either.

JoelH

13 posts

2 months

Sunday 31st October
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I expect Hamilton would be very happy if he could get a BTCC drive for 50k. It's more likely he's bringing four or five times that. I doubt there is a driver on the grid who is bringing that little.

On-Rails

19 posts

12 months

Sunday 31st October
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Cheapest seats are the subsidised ones which means drivers need to bring about £150k, through to the highest being an eye watering £600k.

PartsMonkey

263 posts

109 months

Tuesday 2nd November
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On-Rails said:
Cheapest seats are the subsidised ones which means drivers need to bring about £150k, through to the highest being an eye watering £600k.
I'm pretty sure £600,000 was the amount Andy Neate paid to drive the MG6 for a year back in 2012

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,936 posts

195 months

Tuesday 2nd November
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LukeBrown66 said:
Most racing teams do NOT make money, they try and keep their heads above water, but think about it? the only ways you make money in motorsport are with prizemoney and sponsorship, people dont just give you money for stuff, most of that is for drivers, personal sponsors etc and a lot of that is kit.

A team has to pay out a fair bit in wages, buy loads of kit, a premises, hospitality, who pays for that? either a rich team boss, or a combo of drivers and sponsors brining money in and the budget being carefully sorted pre season.

For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.

I would guess a manufacturer link would be linked to a budget of some kind, so a national dealer type deal with Hyundai, Ford etc might help you with a yearly budget, maybe cheap parts if you need OE stuff, but there are not many of those either.
that's a load of BS I am afraid, If you are a professional team, you should be making money. A few years ago I looked at Clios on the BTCC as an option, most of the team were looking for 80-100k. However if you had a trailer, a van and 1 mechanic you could do it for about 30k (but that's after buying and selling the race car ). Where does the extra 60k come from? Also running three cars doesn't make you costs three times more expensive.

Some teams get deals on vans, road cars, tools, trucks and the like, from drivers or off their own back.

If the team is relatively small then it might register as little of no profit, but that's because the owner has trousered the surplus.

WSR haven't been racing for as long as they have by making no money.

stevemcs

6,096 posts

65 months

Tuesday 2nd November
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Looks like Chilton has left his current team.

Milkyway

Original Poster:

1,349 posts

25 months

Tuesday 2nd November
quotequote all
stevemcs said:
Looks like Chilton has left his current team.
I thought that it didn’t sound too promising.
In the Right car he is still a top ten contender though.
( Happier In FWD though).

Regarding the budgets though... I can’t see the hybrid systems being that cheap.
( At least they can scrap the weights)


Edited by Milkyway on Wednesday 3rd November 11:09

The Wookie

12,834 posts

200 months

Tuesday 2nd November
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Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
However if you had a trailer, a van and 1 mechanic you could do it for about 30k (but that's after buying and selling the race car ). Where does the extra 60k come from?
Workshop overheads, extra mechanics who may or not be full time to improve prep, replacing parts preventatively to improve prep, top quality race engineer to set the car up better, data engineer, engine refreshes, more brakes, extra tyres, testing, etc etc etc. Plus the best teams will also put a bit into presentation to try and attract sponsorship

You get what you pay for in Motorsport, yes you can run a car cheap but you probably won’t be successful. Even the quick guys that are running them ‘smart’ so to speak will either be holding themselves back or spending more than you might expect.

Very few people get rich running a race team although there are a few to avoid that will take 100k but spend 20k on a shiny shop front and only spend 30k running the car

The Wookie

12,834 posts

200 months

Tuesday 2nd November
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LukeBrown66 said:
For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.
Add a zero and you’ll probably be closer! Nick is also probably one of the few that actually brings more in sponsorship than he actually has to put into his race budget

DanielSan

16,888 posts

139 months

Wednesday 3rd November
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The Wookie said:
Very few people get rich running a race team although there are a few to avoid that will take 100k but spend 20k on a shiny shop front and only spend 30k running the car
There's a good/shocking story I've been told bout one current team on the grid doing exactly this. Not sure if the story ever came out publicly. As it's a Hard one to tell without giving away too many names I'll shut up.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,936 posts

195 months

Wednesday 3rd November
quotequote all
The Wookie said:
Workshop overheads, extra mechanics who may or not be full time to improve prep, replacing parts preventatively to improve prep, top quality race engineer to set the car up better, data engineer, engine refreshes, more brakes, extra tyres, testing, etc etc etc. Plus the best teams will also put a bit into presentation to try and attract sponsorship

You get what you pay for in Motorsport, yes you can run a car cheap but you probably won’t be successful. Even the quick guys that are running them ‘smart’ so to speak will either be holding themselves back or spending more than you might expect.

Very few people get rich running a race team although there are a few to avoid that will take 100k but spend 20k on a shiny shop front and only spend 30k running the car
it was a slightly facetious comment of mine. I get all the above, but how much of it is necessary? If everyone went racing with a van, trailer and one mechanic we'd see a lot more participants. In the Clio's I mentioned, they were doing rebuilds of the engine after every race, which seemed a touch unnecessary and not particularly auditable ( have you actually rebuilt my engine?).

Year one of a new championship is the best time to go it alone, as no one knows the cars and you're not competing against experienced teams. There was a racer (Tim Bridgeman?) that won Formula BMW in its launch year who was a Dad and lad outfit and beat the pro teams. It didn't go down too well, and in actual fact you don't want lad and dads to win or else all the other competitors start questioning the value of a pro race team.

The Wookie

12,834 posts

200 months

Wednesday 3rd November
quotequote all
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
it was a slightly facetious comment of mine. I get all the above, but how much of it is necessary? If everyone went racing with a van, trailer and one mechanic we'd see a lot more participants. In the Clio's I mentioned, they were doing rebuilds of the engine after every race, which seemed a touch unnecessary and not particularly auditable ( have you actually rebuilt my engine?).

Year one of a new championship is the best time to go it alone, as no one knows the cars and you're not competing against experienced teams. There was a racer (Tim Bridgeman?) that won Formula BMW in its launch year who was a Dad and lad outfit and beat the pro teams. It didn't go down too well, and in actual fact you don't want lad and dads to win or else all the other competitors start questioning the value of a pro race team.
Yeah but that’s the problem, by the time you’ve spent all the money on people and parts then having a truck and a decent setup isn’t just a logical (and not massive) step on it also becomes an expectation of good quality guys working for you

Yes I agree you can put on a good show with a well home prepped car and a bit of savvy in a new series, but as soon as the bigger teams work it out themselves and start throwing guns at it it won’t be long before they’re chasing the diminishing returns and you get swamped.

Unfortunately that is a fact of life in national motorsport in general now, everything is a lot closer and more competitive.

When I was racing Caterham Superlights back in 2008 I had a team running my car mainly for safety as I was inexperienced as a mechanic/engineer, the budget was just over 15k all in: tyres, transport, prep, etc. The series failed a couple of years after because the cars were seen as too expensive to run.

These days you won’t threaten the top ten in the flagship Caterham championship without 100k at it. Things like throwing a freshly built diff in it every session are accepted to get an edge, it’s become the nature of the beast.

A500leroy

2,925 posts

90 months

Wednesday 3rd November
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Maybe Chilton will be Wookies team mate in the fords next year?

On-Rails

19 posts

12 months

Wednesday 3rd November
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A500leroy said:
Maybe Chilton will be Wookies team mate in the fords next year?
I could see a Chilton back at Motorbase, but being Ollie’s teammate would depend on if our favourite Wookie pens a new deal wink

turbo9111

194 posts

119 months

Thursday 4th November
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{Yes I agree you can put on a good show with a well home prepped car and a bit of savvy in a new series, but as soon as the bigger teams work it out themselves and start throwing guns at it it won’t be long before they’re chasing the diminishing returns and you get swamped.

Unfortunately that is a fact of life in national motorsport in general now, everything is a lot closer and more competitive. }

Rowbottom did it in Clio Cup with his dad with a van up against the top teams, In his first ever Clio race he put it on pole and in his last ever Clio race he was on pole it is rare but proves it can be done…..some good results in between too..