Bored of trackdays. What CHEAP motorsport options are there?

[dhutch]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

autosolo
autotests

I was going to mention autotesting, which I have had a lot of fun doing.

Got into it through my local club, first doing evening events after work (grass in summer, tarmac in winter) and then progress to National Autosolo and then National Autotest. Did also do a 12 car rally, which was also good crack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2yN_5fbgls
https://www.motorsportuk.org/get-started/types-of-...


Lok for 'BTRDA autotest' or autosolo or 'Fern Motorsport' on Facebook for some more videos.

[bigothunter]

t.boydy said:

https://www.national-autograss.com/

This....

You can make it as expensive or cheap as you like..

10 classes to choose from, from 1.0 mini/micra to twin bike engine spaceframe vehicles

Season is mid March to early November

I have been involved for over 30 years, love it!!


Tom

The level of cost overhead and hoops to jump through for MSA club racing deters competitors. Been getting worse over the years. "The right crowd and no crowding" moto has been resurrected

[Armchairracer]

MSUK motorsports doesn't have to be expensive , you can sprint on a budget and be competitive at the same time ..if I can access the link there I'll post a recent you tube series/article of this very subject , really informative up to now and made by the present record holder for one of the layouts in an mg zr 1.4 standard class .
https://youtu.be/YyGA47SRMIQ

[dhutch]

bigothunter said:

The level of cost overhead and hoops to jump through for MSA club racing deters competitors. Been getting worse over the years. "The right crowd and no crowding" moto has been resurrected

As above, depends on the sport and class.

There is more safety equipment than their was, for high speed and or dangerous events, and that does cost money. But also less people die. Club level Motorsport, run by MSUK (as was MSA) however starts at £20 entry for a run-what-you-brung type events.

[t.boydy]

bigothunter said:

The level of cost overhead and hoops to jump through for MSA club racing deters competitors. Been getting worse over the years. "The right crowd and no crowding" moto has been resurrected

Not the case with auto grass……. Cheap sport for sure!

[anonymous-user]

Personally I’d get something like a Radical and keep doing track/test days. You get to experience real performance at a time and track of your convenience. You could also enter some sprints or hillclimbs of you wanted a competitive buzz.

The bit that always puts me off racing in a particular series is the fact you’re beholden to the championship calendar and you have to commit to the dates. I’d rather look at tracks and dates that suit me, not be forced to drive to Croft or somewhere on a Saturday in July just because that’s the next round. You could register for a few championships but then your costs are going up.

Alternatives to keep the costs down are single circuit series, Castle Combe have four for example, but I appreciate people like experiencing different tracks. If you’re reasonably close though, it’s a no brainer.

[bigothunter]

dhutch said:

bigothunter said:

The level of cost overhead and hoops to jump through for MSA club racing deters competitors. Been getting worse over the years. "The right crowd and no crowding" moto has been resurrected

As above, depends on the sport and class.

There is more safety equipment than their was, for high speed and or dangerous events, and that does cost money. But also less people die. Club level Motorsport, run by MSUK (as was MSA) however starts at £20 entry for a run-what-you-brung type events.

Brands Hatch GP MSVR Race Meeting 22nd May 2022

Co-ordSport Tin Tops with Motorsports School Turbo Tin Tops Sunday 40 Mins Entry Fee £535

Brands GP is always expensive but even so, a single race entry fee of £535 is eyewatering. Definitely sorts out the wheat from the chaff...

[classicfred]

Hillclimbing rules/what's required are here ;

https://www.harewoodhill.co.uk/getting-started-hil...

https://barc.blob.core.windows.net/harewood/links/...

Few cars for sale here along with other info re hillclimbs and sprints;

https://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/forsale.asp

https://racecarsdirect.com/SubCategory/Index/46/9/...

https://www.racedandrallied.com/

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Latest?page=1&am...

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Latest?FilterSor...

There are also an increasing number of drivers who share cars at hillclimbs/sprints giving you the option of sharing costs etc and maybe getting to drive/afford a more ' exotic ' car as you are pooling/doubling your money. Just a thought.

Edited by classicfred on Saturday 14th May 01:09

[JoelH]

bigothunter said:

Brands Hatch GP MSVR Race Meeting 22nd May 2022

Co-ordSport Tin Tops with Motorsports School Turbo Tin Tops Sunday 40 Mins Entry Fee £535

Brands GP is always expensive but even so, a single race entry fee of £535 is eyewatering. Definitely sorts out the wheat from the chaff...

CSCC Tin Tops is designed for two drivers sharing a car though so it's half that price in reality. There are plenty of clubs around for those who want to race on their own with a bit more track time for around the same share. Variety is the spice of life and we're fortunate in the UK to have such a wide range of motorsport and tracks around to suit most budgets.

I know many people with normal everyday jobs who go circuit racing every month. It's all about how you budget and where you spend your money. I also know many people who think nothing of spending £200 on a night out two or three times a month.

There is always someone with more money. That's just life.

[LukeBrown66]

I do think more could be done to make entry level circuit racing more affordable though, 500 quid entry fee is preposterous to be honest.

The ARDS test is just a giant money spinner for MUK, I get the medical stuff but quite why you have to make a small group of people a large amount of money is beyond me, sadly a lot of other authorities do it now too, as they have realised how much of a cash cow it is, thankfully there are non MSUK sports that do not require this nonsense. Far tougher, aswell.

[bigothunter]

JoelH said:

CSCC Tin Tops is designed for two drivers sharing a car though so it's half that price in reality.

We have raced with CSCC and MSVR. Both accommodate two drivers sharing or single drivers. Serious competitors tend to drive the whole race rather than share.

£535 for 40 minutes is still £1-00 spent for every 4.5 seconds racing on entry fee alone. That's before all the other costs. Soon becomes £1500 per event. That's a rich man's pursuit..

[anonymous-user]

When you’ve spent £10k on a car, trailer, tow car, safety kit etc, £500 on entry fees probably feels cheap! I’m not sure how it could be cheaper unless the circuit reduce the cost to the organist clubs?

Circuit racing is expensive hence why sprints and hill climbs still attract a good “clubman” entry. Yes time in the seat is a lot less but for some people, a few times runs is enough to get the competition juices flowing and have a good day.

The paddock atmosphere at hill climbs is unsurpassed anywhere too, no one to block you/run you wide/punt you off = no one to have a beef with.

[bigothunter]

pablo said:

When you’ve spent £10k on a car, trailer, tow car, safety kit etc, £500 on entry fees probably feels cheap!

£500 entry fee over a 10 race season is still £5000 per annum.

[DelicaL400]

Comp safaris. Rallying for offroaders - think Bowler Wildcat etc. Some cars are well within your budget and the events are not that expensive to enter.

[bigothunter]

DelicaL400 said:

Comp safaris. Rallying for offroaders - think Bowler Wildcat etc. Some cars are well within your budget and the events are not that expensive to enter.

Bowler Wildcat 200 for sale at £33,500

https://www.racedandrallied.com/rally-cars-for-sal...

[DelicaL400]

bigothunter said:

DelicaL400 said:

Comp safaris. Rallying for offroaders - think Bowler Wildcat etc. Some cars are well within your budget and the events are not that expensive to enter.

Bowler Wildcat 200 for sale at £33,500

https://www.racedandrallied.com/rally-cars-for-sal...

Yeah I was using the Bowler to illustrate the type of cars used. There are much cheaper options available

[andy97]

bigothunter said:

dhutch said:

bigothunter said:

The level of cost overhead and hoops to jump through for MSA club racing deters competitors. Been getting worse over the years. "The right crowd and no crowding" moto has been resurrected

As above, depends on the sport and class.

There is more safety equipment than their was, for high speed and or dangerous events, and that does cost money. But also less people die. Club level Motorsport, run by MSUK (as was MSA) however starts at £20 entry for a run-what-you-brung type events.

Brands Hatch GP MSVR Race Meeting 22nd May 2022

Co-ordSport Tin Tops with Motorsports School Turbo Tin Tops Sunday 40 Mins Entry Fee £535

Brands GP is always expensive but even so, a single race entry fee of £535 is eyewatering. Definitely sorts out the wheat from the chaff...

The Brands GP circuit, particularly supporting a high profile event, always has higher than average entry fees, and in a CSCC season is a one off.
A “normal” CSCC event entry fee is probably about £420 I think, and that’s for 30 mins qualifying and a 40 min race. 70 mins track time. Not cheap, I grant you, but not as expensive as pointed out and competitive with most other clubs fees.

Edited by andy97 on Sunday 15th May 07:58

[andy97]

LukeBrown66 said:

I do think more could be done to make entry level circuit racing more affordable though, 500 quid entry fee is preposterous to be honest.

The ARDS test is just a giant money spinner for MUK, I get the medical stuff but quite why you have to make a small group of people a large amount of money is beyond me, sadly a lot of other authorities do it now too, as they have realised how much of a cash cow it is, thankfully there are non MSUK sports that do not require this nonsense. Far tougher, aswell.

Please explain in detail HOW circuit racing could be cheaper please.
The ARDS test is irrelevant to event entry fees and is a one off cost. The biggest element of race entry fees is the circuit hire fee. On top of that the organising club have insurance, MSUK fees, timing, rescue vehicles, medical cover etc etc to pay for.
10 years ago when I was on a club committee we ran a two day meeting at Rockingham - the costs of the weekend added up to £78000. Income from entry fees was £75000, and we had good grids.
Apologies for the thread drift.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

andy97 said:

LukeBrown66 said:

I do think more could be done to make entry level circuit racing more affordable though, 500 quid entry fee is preposterous to be honest.

The ARDS test is just a giant money spinner for MUK, I get the medical stuff but quite why you have to make a small group of people a large amount of money is beyond me, sadly a lot of other authorities do it now too, as they have realised how much of a cash cow it is, thankfully there are non MSUK sports that do not require this nonsense. Far tougher, aswell.

Please explain in detail HOW circuit racing could be cheaper please.
The ARDS test is irrelevant to event entry fees and is a one off cost. The biggest element of race entry fees is the circuit hire fee. On top of that the organising club have insurance, MSUK fees, timing, rescue vehicles, medical cover etc etc to pay for.
10 years ago when I was on a club committee we ran a two day meeting at Rockingham - the costs of the weekend added up to £78000. Income from entry fees was £75000, and we had good grids.
Apologies for the thread drift.

I think there are a couple things that could be done to lower entry fees and costs for racing per se

1) gate receipts. Club events are not advertised particularly well if at all. Most of that is due to the fact that the circuit will keep the gate receipt of anyone who turns up. I am not suggesting that you’re ever going to get 10,000 people turning up for a clubbie but 1000 people is possible, and at £20 per head thats 20k towards the cost of the event. That would allow entry fees to reduce by up to £50 per competitor
2) tickets given as part of your entry. I’ve never yet worked out whether they are free, or part of the cost of entry. If the latter then I’d by quite happy with one ticket and a reduction in my entry
3) All double headers moved to be on one day only. Thus reducing travel costs and accommodation. I think the young YouTuber type lads like to make a weekend of it, but most racers are older and with family so much harder to spend 7 full weekends away.
4) the hosting costs of the GP at Silverstone force Silverstone to increase its circuit hire charges to cover that cost. Then all the other circuits peg their hire costs accordingly, so indirectly the GP makes club racing more expensive. So let’s can the BGP
5) early bird discount for early entries. I can’t think of many clubs that do this


But the point with the most potential to reduce costs is number 1.

But let’s not get started with rediculous lifing rules on seat belts and extinguishers.

[andy97]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

andy97 said:

LukeBrown66 said:

I do think more could be done to make entry level circuit racing more affordable though, 500 quid entry fee is preposterous to be honest.

The ARDS test is just a giant money spinner for MUK, I get the medical stuff but quite why you have to make a small group of people a large amount of money is beyond me, sadly a lot of other authorities do it now too, as they have realised how much of a cash cow it is, thankfully there are non MSUK sports that do not require this nonsense. Far tougher, aswell.

Please explain in detail HOW circuit racing could be cheaper please.
The ARDS test is irrelevant to event entry fees and is a one off cost. The biggest element of race entry fees is the circuit hire fee. On top of that the organising club have insurance, MSUK fees, timing, rescue vehicles, medical cover etc etc to pay for.
10 years ago when I was on a club committee we ran a two day meeting at Rockingham - the costs of the weekend added up to £78000. Income from entry fees was £75000, and we had good grids.
Apologies for the thread drift.

I think there are a couple things that could be done to lower entry fees and costs for racing per se

1) gate receipts. Club events are not advertised particularly well if at all. Most of that is due to the fact that the circuit will keep the gate receipt of anyone who turns up. I am not suggesting that you’re ever going to get 10,000 people turning up for a clubbie but 1000 people is possible, and at £20 per head thats 20k towards the cost of the event. That would allow entry fees to reduce by up to £50 per competitor
2) tickets given as part of your entry. I’ve never yet worked out whether they are free, or part of the cost of entry. If the latter then I’d by quite happy with one ticket and a reduction in my entry
3) All double headers moved to be on one day only. Thus reducing travel costs and accommodation. I think the young YouTuber type lads like to make a weekend of it, but most racers are older and with family so much harder to spend 7 full weekends away.
4) the hosting costs of the GP at Silverstone force Silverstone to increase its circuit hire charges to cover that cost. Then all the other circuits peg their hire costs accordingly, so indirectly the GP makes club racing more expensive. So let’s can the BGP
5) early bird discount for early entries. I can’t think of many clubs that do this


But the point with the most potential to reduce costs is number 1.

But let’s not get started with rediculous lifing rules on seat belts and extinguishers.

All reasonable points but:
1. Motorsport is now a minority intetest sport so getting a1000 prople to turn up to every club meeting is difficult and i think £20 for a clubbie is unrealistic. 500 people and £10 maybe. And whi takes the risk, the club or circuit?
That said, some clubs do have a reasonable spectator following already: Castle Combe and most CSCC meetings for eg. And the circuits will already factor in the small income they get already from spectators in to their financial model.
2) no idea either but agree, although many club racers have family, friends or a spanner person along too do they need tickets from somewhere
3) not all clubs do double headers - CSCC meetings are generally one day for each series and thats irrelevant to entry fee costs, although is a factor in the overall costs of club racing.
4) no idea if thats true or not. I would expect MSVR to set their own prices independently of Silverstone. And to be fair, MSVR have invested a lot of money over the years in improving each of their circuits facilities snd i know that JP runs a very tight ship.
5) several clubs do early discounts - again CSCC do.
Not sure we have saved much on an entry fee