What is going wrong with the BTCC?

What is going wrong with the BTCC?

Author
Discussion

DanielRowbottom

33 posts

104 months

Tuesday 23rd August
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Keep the faith guys...

Big changes this year with Hybrid, things will keep advancing, was always going to be a 'different' season.

:-)

coppice

7,508 posts

125 months

Wednesday 24th August
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I am not a huge fan , and never have been but I see at least one round most years and have done so for decades . My favourite era was the bonkers Sierra Cosworths , but Supertouring was terrific, especially in driver talent and soundtrack. The current iteration sound pretty awful but I can't say I have noticed any huge deterioration . I never watch the TV stuff but watched live it's fine .

BMR

902 posts

159 months

Wednesday 24th August
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I definitely think missing the build up part to allow the coverage on to ITV just before race 1 loses something overall.

DelicaL400

470 posts

92 months

Wednesday 24th August
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It's because we're all Wookie fans and he's not been challenging for wins this year yet so it's dull!

I've got the same feeling of not being as interested now. It started last year when most of the cars were assorted shades of black and white. I've still watched most of the rounds but I find I enjoy some of the support races more than the BTCC which never used to be the case.

greeny12

268 posts

200 months

Thursday 25th August
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DelicaL400 said:
It's because we're all Wookie fans and he's not been challenging for wins this year yet so it's dull!

That's undoubtedly a factor for me. I'm not one for following the quali on Saturday, so all this year I've tuned in on Sunday to see the grid only to let out a sigh when Ollie is like 19th or something.

Mind you, I suspect that's nothing compared to how he feels about it all!

N0ddie

346 posts

146 months

Thursday 25th August
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Its just not entertaining this year. No success ballast just means that its guaranteed to have the fastest car (The BMW) more often than not on pole. Fastest car starting on pole usually ends one way.

The best thing about the BTCC was having the cars out of position and the good folk having to battle.

The BMWs are also just too fast.

mat205125

16,848 posts

194 months

Friday 26th August
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coppice said:
I am not a huge fan , and never have been but I see at least one round most years and have done so for decades . My favourite era was the bonkers Sierra Cosworths , but Supertouring was terrific, especially in driver talent and soundtrack. The current iteration sound pretty awful but I can't say I have noticed any huge deterioration . I never watch the TV stuff but watched live it's fine .
All eras had their highs and lows.

Whilst I also loved the Supertourer era, I do also have a lasting memory of that era being regularly processional and lacking in overtaking.

TO73074E

176 posts

8 months

Friday 26th August
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I'm still a big fan of the BTCC but don't really have one favourite driver/team. It would be interesting to know if people are losing interest as their favourite driver or team isn't winning? I know there is a lot of support for Ash Sutton (not me personally) and the Focus hasn't been as dominant as the Infiniti was. I have always had a slight soft spot for Team Dynamics but that has waned since Matt Neal took a step back and when Cammish left after narrowly losing it a few seasons back on the last race. I would rather see Plato get his 100th win or Ingram finally get his hands on the title.

Even though qualifying can be really close through the field at some meetings, the race pace doesn't seem to be there at the lower end of the field and its usually the same back markers unfortunately.

Oulton Park is my local cicuit so it would be nice if they had a second meeting there instead of Thruxton, I am biased but I think the racing is better there with it being a narrower track. Maybe other circuits could be introduced but where? Maybe the power from the hybrid boost should be upped by 10bhp?

Chunkychucky

5,308 posts

150 months

Friday 26th August
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TO73074E said:
It would be interesting to know if people are losing interest as their favourite driver or team isn't winning?
I fell out of love with the sport when everyone was pushed to the homogenised 4 cylinder turbo engines, just killed part of the spectacle for me.

Even through the mid-00s you could watch a race and enjoy hearing Neil Brown K20s/Swindon Vauxhaull lumps screaming beyond 8k rpm, it was part of the thrill/appeal for me.

Now all the cars drive around the circuit making a noise akin to a 30-man rugby squad after a night of lentil dahl and pints of Carling.

Appreciate the sport has to be seen to be 'greener'/more environmentally concious, but for me the lack of manufacturer support and the monotony of the cars used kills it for me.

Best days were Group A through the 80s/early 90s, then super touring - proper cars being driven by proper drivers cool

rallycross

11,808 posts

218 months

Saturday 27th August
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Been watching since as long as I remember and enjoying this year as much as ever let’s see how the racing goes at Thruxton this weekend always a good one to watch.

DanielSan

18,091 posts

148 months

Monday 29th August
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TO73074E said:
I'm still a big fan of the BTCC but don't really have one favourite driver/team. It would be interesting to know if people are losing interest as their favourite driver or team isn't winning? I know there is a lot of support for Ash Sutton (not me personally) and the Focus hasn't been as dominant as the Infiniti was. I have always had a slight soft spot for Team Dynamics but that has waned since Matt Neal took a step back and when Cammish left after narrowly losing it a few seasons back on the last race. I would rather see Plato get his 100th win or Ingram finally get his hands on the title.

Even though qualifying can be really close through the field at some meetings, the race pace doesn't seem to be there at the lower end of the field and its usually the same back markers unfortunately.

Oulton Park is my local cicuit so it would be nice if they had a second meeting there instead of Thruxton, I am biased but I think the racing is better there with it being a narrower track. Maybe other circuits could be introduced but where? Maybe the power from the hybrid boost should be upped by 10bhp?
I like Oulton as a track but it's been the worst BTCC round for a few seasons now, a narrow track never results in better racing, it just creates a line of cars all unable to overtake. That problem was made even worse when they tried to use the isnd circuit a couple of years back and there was next to no overtaking in any of the 3 races all day.

TOCA have looked at other circuits in the past but other than the ones the series already goes to nowhere else has a paddock big enough for the touring cars and all the support categories so we're a bit stuck. The one track that could use an alternative layout is Silverstone and instead we get the same crap National layout with effectively 3 corners every year and no will to even try the International layout and the new pit building and potential for at least doing something different.

WelshPetrolhead

555 posts

116 months

Monday 29th August
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DanielSan said:
The one track that could use an alternative layout is Silverstone and instead we get the same crap National layout with effectively 3 corners every year and no will to even try the International layout and the new pit building and potential for at least doing something different.
That was originally the plan to do 2 visits to Silverstone back in 2020, with the 2nd visit using the International, but then the calendar got revised down due to covid, and we are back to 2 visits to Thruxton instead.

Dermot O'Logical

1,726 posts

110 months

Monday 29th August
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For me, the best Touring/Saloon car races of the year are those at the Goodwood Revival.

Different classes of car, with different attributes and characteristics, that the paying public can identify with.

The BTCC was much better in the days when the cars were closer to their road-spec brethren, which resulted in greater manufacturer interest and participation. The current BTCC seems to lack identity, the cars are homogenised, and it's all rather bland.

Yes, you'll get close racing and the inevitable panel bashing that results, but there's not much emotion. Stand near Woodcote and the chicane at Goodwood and watch a Mini try to go inside a Ford Galaxie or a MkII Jaguar. Or, 1980's BTCC with Richard Lloyd's Golf GTI against Chris Hodgett's Toyota in the "small" class often mixing it with the Capris and their ilk on tighter circuits. It's hard not to be moved by small, nimble cars taking on the big boys.

More variety. That's what the BTCC needs.

coppice

7,508 posts

125 months

Monday 29th August
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DanielSan said:
I like Oulton as a track but it's been the worst BTCC round for a few seasons now, a narrow track never results in better racing, it just creates a line of cars all unable to overtake. That problem was made even worse when they tried to use the isnd circuit a couple of years back and there was next to no overtaking in any of the 3 races all day.

TOCA have looked at other circuits in the past but other than the ones the series already goes to nowhere else has a paddock big enough for the touring cars and all the support categories so we're a bit stuck. The one track that could use an alternative layout is Silverstone and instead we get the same crap National layout with effectively 3 corners every year and no will to even try the International layout and the new pit building and potential for at least doing something different.
I think that says more about the absurd amount of kit which the BTCC feels necessary to drag around rather than the size. or quality of the support acts. The Ginettas can entertain but the rest is thin gridded mediocrity ., presumably so as not to detract from the main act .

As for not being able to overtake, I've seen F1 , F2 and F3 cars race , and overtake , at Oulton in period and the same at Mallory Park , where I've also seen BTCC . Isn't complaining about circuit size like driving a massive SUV and moaning that the roads are too narrow ?

ecsrobin

15,072 posts

146 months

Monday 29th August
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I don’t know if it’s the same for others but I’ve never enjoyed the BTCC I don’t know what it is but I’ve just never gelled with it, and I’m someone who would watch anything that’s got an engine in race.

I think it either needs to be more like DTM or as a few others have said more closely aligned to what you get in the showroom.

Krikkit

24,468 posts

162 months

Thursday 1st September
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A500leroy said:
Got dull after the Super touring days, penalised for going off track, only this much hybrid allowed, tyre choice,etc, I just want to see the drivers given a car and told to get on with it, I dont want everyone in pretty much the same car.
Interesting, have you watched any of it in the last 5 years? The last couple of seasons in particular have been some of the best racing around

JoelH

127 posts

11 months

Thursday 1st September
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A500leroy said:
Got dull after the Super touring days, penalised for going off track, only this much hybrid allowed, tyre choice,etc, I just want to see the drivers given a car and told to get on with it, I dont want everyone in pretty much the same car.
So you think they should just be able to drive wherever they like and ignore the track limit rules that everyone else who races has to obey?

Besides there were years and years of racing after Super Touring where all the things you're complaining about didn't exist.

MG CHRIS

8,885 posts

148 months

Friday 2nd September
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JoelH said:
A500leroy said:
Got dull after the Super touring days, penalised for going off track, only this much hybrid allowed, tyre choice,etc, I just want to see the drivers given a car and told to get on with it, I dont want everyone in pretty much the same car.
So you think they should just be able to drive wherever they like and ignore the track limit rules that everyone else who races has to obey?

Besides there were years and years of racing after Super Touring where all the things you're complaining about didn't exist.
Plus there was some pretty dull super touring races so much they introduced pit stops to spice up the racing.

SO27

121 posts

192 months

Friday 2nd September
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For me the biggest problem is with the drivers' championship itself. It rewards not racing, but just circulating in whatever position a driver is in after qualifying.

The points system needs to be changed to encourage drivers to make up positions and not settle for what they've got. Maybe that could be fewer points scoring positions, a greater differential between points scored for each position or dropped scores so as not to penalise something going wrong as much.

rallycross

11,808 posts

218 months

Friday 2nd September
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SO27 said:
For me the biggest problem is with the drivers' championship itself. It rewards not racing, but just circulating in whatever position a driver is in after qualifying.

The points system needs to be changed to encourage drivers to make up positions and not settle for what they've got. Maybe that could be fewer points scoring positions, a greater differential between points scored for each position or dropped scores so as not to penalise something going wrong as much.
Not for the front runners.
Also hybrid means driver In front can fend off drivers behind with clever use of hybrid and good positioning on track - this much reduces overtakes compared to previous weight ballast for success version.