2024 Sportscar Thread (WEC, IMSA, NLS, GT World Challenge)
Discussion
Absolutely scandalous getting a suspended fine for speaking their mind. They were in their right to complain, after the ACO changed the BoP before Le Mans.
Hell, if the ACO/FIA were in charge of horse racing handicapping, they'd be handing out fines every week to trainers complaining about harsh weight rises.
Hell, if the ACO/FIA were in charge of horse racing handicapping, they'd be handing out fines every week to trainers complaining about harsh weight rises.
I can't say the BoP system seems particularly fair at the moment - Toyota were heavily punished for LM24, and only came into contention with luck and weather, Ferrari would've romped away with it if the weather was similar to last year.
Not just the top class either, Iron Dames were class of the field at Spa, over a minute ahead before SC (a combination of an exceptional stint and BoP, then the BoP crushed them at LM, only to swing the other way again.
In principle BoP and success ballast makes perfect sense, but the application needs more tuning imo
Not just the top class either, Iron Dames were class of the field at Spa, over a minute ahead before SC (a combination of an exceptional stint and BoP, then the BoP crushed them at LM, only to swing the other way again.
In principle BoP and success ballast makes perfect sense, but the application needs more tuning imo
There’s no easy way to prevent teams sandbagging to game BOP.
Perhaps manufacturers need to be forced to sell, or make available to sell, additional cars to any privateer at a fixed price with no operational interference allowed. Full spares, support etc.
The heyday of Le Mans involved non factory teams being able to compete. If properly separate teams were operating the same machinery, sandbagging would be much harder.
Perhaps manufacturers need to be forced to sell, or make available to sell, additional cars to any privateer at a fixed price with no operational interference allowed. Full spares, support etc.
The heyday of Le Mans involved non factory teams being able to compete. If properly separate teams were operating the same machinery, sandbagging would be much harder.
Krikkit said:
I can't say the BoP system seems particularly fair at the moment - Toyota were heavily punished for LM24, and only came into contention with luck and weather, Ferrari would've romped away with it if the weather was similar to last year.
Not just the top class either, Iron Dames were class of the field at Spa, over a minute ahead before SC (a combination of an exceptional stint and BoP, then the BoP crushed them at LM, only to swing the other way again.
In principle BoP and success ballast makes perfect sense, but the application needs more tuning imo
Success ballast makes no sense at all, IMONot just the top class either, Iron Dames were class of the field at Spa, over a minute ahead before SC (a combination of an exceptional stint and BoP, then the BoP crushed them at LM, only to swing the other way again.
In principle BoP and success ballast makes perfect sense, but the application needs more tuning imo
If it’s a BOP formula, then the whole point is it’s (supposedly) a level playing field and you win or lose based on your drivers abilities and team strategy
To then penalise teams who make this work better than anyone else is beyond ridiculous
Both Manthey Porsches have been at the front all season in GT3LM but neither have appear to have an obvious advantage lap time wise
The pure x car has a very good bronze driver up there with Sarah Bovy, and the other pros in both cars are good but aside from that they don’t seem to have an unfair BOP advantage, yet they end up running a compromised car due to success ballast
It’s the pinnacle of sports car racing yet they’re dealing with it like the BTCC or British GT
I guess the officials must enjoy having the power to affect results
freedman said:
Success ballast makes no sense at all, IMO
If it’s a BOP formula, then the whole point is it’s (supposedly) a level playing field and you win or lose based on your drivers abilities and team strategy
To then penalise teams who make this work better than anyone else is beyond ridiculous
Both Manthey Porsches have been at the front all season in GT3LM but neither have appear to have an obvious advantage lap time wise
The pure x car has a very good bronze driver up there with Sarah Bovy, and the other pros in both cars are good but aside from that they don’t seem to have an unfair BOP advantage, yet they end up running a compromised car due to success ballast
It’s the pinnacle of sports car racing yet they’re dealing with it like the BTCC or British GT
I guess the officials must enjoy having the power to affect results
What's the alternative? Run fixed cars until 2029? Then you end up with F1 where one car dominates for years and a chimpanzee could win the title in it.If it’s a BOP formula, then the whole point is it’s (supposedly) a level playing field and you win or lose based on your drivers abilities and team strategy
To then penalise teams who make this work better than anyone else is beyond ridiculous
Both Manthey Porsches have been at the front all season in GT3LM but neither have appear to have an obvious advantage lap time wise
The pure x car has a very good bronze driver up there with Sarah Bovy, and the other pros in both cars are good but aside from that they don’t seem to have an unfair BOP advantage, yet they end up running a compromised car due to success ballast
It’s the pinnacle of sports car racing yet they’re dealing with it like the BTCC or British GT
I guess the officials must enjoy having the power to affect results
BoP is working so far as evidenced by the scrum to enter cars and the excellent racing we've seen. Ferrari have now played their sandbagging card and the FIA will be wise to it, and as data builds up BoP will become more and more efficient.
CLK-GTR said:
What's the alternative? Run fixed cars until 2029? Then you end up with F1 where one car dominates for years and a chimpanzee could win the title in it.
BoP is working so far as evidenced by the scrum to enter cars and the excellent racing we've seen. Ferrari have now played their sandbagging card and the FIA will be wise to it, and as data builds up BoP will become more and more efficient.
I’m all for the best team winning personallyBoP is working so far as evidenced by the scrum to enter cars and the excellent racing we've seen. Ferrari have now played their sandbagging card and the FIA will be wise to it, and as data builds up BoP will become more and more efficient.
There is no reason to use success ballast if BOP is such a success making things even
It’s also completely untrue that anyone can win in these cars or anything else, history shows that bar the odd occasion only top line drivers win in top line formulas, even if they stumble into a car with a distinct advantage
Hello. Out nice and early....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py2ovnxvM68
Has a very Porsche 956/962 vibe about it with that massive rear wing. Wonder who was driving? Fred?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py2ovnxvM68
Has a very Porsche 956/962 vibe about it with that massive rear wing. Wonder who was driving? Fred?
freedman said:
I’m all for the best team winning personally
...
That's fine in theory, but if you want a healthy field of top level cars, you have to make sure that it isn't always the team with the biggest budget that wins....
Look at Group C - Once Mercedes started spending big it became a near foregone conclusion until the 3.5 litre formula upset the status quo briefly, but only because Jaguar fielded a near F1 car with a roof and Mercedes and Peugeot temporarily got left behind in the 'arms race'.
Of course, as Bernie and Max intended, no-one was prepared to spend F1 money on sportscars when they could get the massive TV exposure that F1 offered.
We're living in a bit of a golden age of sportscar racing again at the moment - IMSA and the WEC are more or less aligned on rules, there are plenty of works teams and some privateers can seize a win if things go their way.
Make the most of it, though, as manufacturers will soon start questioning their spend if they're not winning...
No-one wants to go back to seeing if Toyota (or anyone else) can mange to shoot themselves in the foot at every race...
M
marcosgt said:
freedman said:
I’m all for the best team winning personally
...
That's fine in theory, but if you want a healthy field of top level cars, you have to make sure that it isn't always the team with the biggest budget that wins....
Look at Group C - Once Mercedes started spending big it became a near foregone conclusion until the 3.5 litre formula upset the status quo briefly, but only because Jaguar fielded a near F1 car with a roof and Mercedes and Peugeot temporarily got left behind in the 'arms race'.
Of course, as Bernie and Max intended, no-one was prepared to spend F1 money on sportscars when they could get the massive TV exposure that F1 offered.
We're living in a bit of a golden age of sportscar racing again at the moment - IMSA and the WEC are more or less aligned on rules, there are plenty of works teams and some privateers can seize a win if things go their way.
Make the most of it, though, as manufacturers will soon start questioning their spend if they're not winning...
No-one wants to go back to seeing if Toyota (or anyone else) can mange to shoot themselves in the foot at every race...
M
FredericRobinson said:
Krikkit said:
Anyone been to Spa for the WEC? What's the access like with the general tickets? Considering it for next year.
Excellent, go anywhere in the public areas / grandstands/ paddockdf76 said:
FredericRobinson said:
Krikkit said:
Anyone been to Spa for the WEC? What's the access like with the general tickets? Considering it for next year.
Excellent, go anywhere in the public areas / grandstands/ paddockfreedman said:
Talking about mandating a minimum of 3 drivers in WEC
Why, and to what ends?
Who does it benefit?
Theoretically it means that all the drivers at LM24 will have more experience - they've done the other races with a full crew, so you don't have rookies at the front of classes.Why, and to what ends?
Who does it benefit?
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