2024 Sportscar Thread (WEC, IMSA, NLS, GT World Challenge)

2024 Sportscar Thread (WEC, IMSA, NLS, GT World Challenge)

Author
Discussion

egomeister

6,882 posts

271 months

Tuesday 16th July
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The first rule of BoP is that you do not talk about BoP

ArnageWRC

2,193 posts

167 months

Tuesday 16th July
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Absolutely scandalous getting a suspended fine for speaking their mind. They were in their right to complain, after the ACO changed the BoP before Le Mans.

Hell, if the ACO/FIA were in charge of horse racing handicapping, they'd be handing out fines every week to trainers complaining about harsh weight rises.

Krikkit

27,033 posts

189 months

Tuesday 16th July
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I can't say the BoP system seems particularly fair at the moment - Toyota were heavily punished for LM24, and only came into contention with luck and weather, Ferrari would've romped away with it if the weather was similar to last year.

Not just the top class either, Iron Dames were class of the field at Spa, over a minute ahead before SC (a combination of an exceptional stint and BoP, then the BoP crushed them at LM, only to swing the other way again.

In principle BoP and success ballast makes perfect sense, but the application needs more tuning imo

Leithen

12,220 posts

275 months

Tuesday 16th July
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There’s no easy way to prevent teams sandbagging to game BOP.

Perhaps manufacturers need to be forced to sell, or make available to sell, additional cars to any privateer at a fixed price with no operational interference allowed. Full spares, support etc.

The heyday of Le Mans involved non factory teams being able to compete. If properly separate teams were operating the same machinery, sandbagging would be much harder.

freedman

5,915 posts

215 months

Wednesday 17th July
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Krikkit said:
I can't say the BoP system seems particularly fair at the moment - Toyota were heavily punished for LM24, and only came into contention with luck and weather, Ferrari would've romped away with it if the weather was similar to last year.

Not just the top class either, Iron Dames were class of the field at Spa, over a minute ahead before SC (a combination of an exceptional stint and BoP, then the BoP crushed them at LM, only to swing the other way again.

In principle BoP and success ballast makes perfect sense, but the application needs more tuning imo
Success ballast makes no sense at all, IMO

If it’s a BOP formula, then the whole point is it’s (supposedly) a level playing field and you win or lose based on your drivers abilities and team strategy

To then penalise teams who make this work better than anyone else is beyond ridiculous

Both Manthey Porsches have been at the front all season in GT3LM but neither have appear to have an obvious advantage lap time wise

The pure x car has a very good bronze driver up there with Sarah Bovy, and the other pros in both cars are good but aside from that they don’t seem to have an unfair BOP advantage, yet they end up running a compromised car due to success ballast

It’s the pinnacle of sports car racing yet they’re dealing with it like the BTCC or British GT

I guess the officials must enjoy having the power to affect results










CLK-GTR

1,254 posts

253 months

Wednesday 17th July
quotequote all
freedman said:
Success ballast makes no sense at all, IMO

If it’s a BOP formula, then the whole point is it’s (supposedly) a level playing field and you win or lose based on your drivers abilities and team strategy

To then penalise teams who make this work better than anyone else is beyond ridiculous

Both Manthey Porsches have been at the front all season in GT3LM but neither have appear to have an obvious advantage lap time wise

The pure x car has a very good bronze driver up there with Sarah Bovy, and the other pros in both cars are good but aside from that they don’t seem to have an unfair BOP advantage, yet they end up running a compromised car due to success ballast

It’s the pinnacle of sports car racing yet they’re dealing with it like the BTCC or British GT

I guess the officials must enjoy having the power to affect results
What's the alternative? Run fixed cars until 2029? Then you end up with F1 where one car dominates for years and a chimpanzee could win the title in it.

BoP is working so far as evidenced by the scrum to enter cars and the excellent racing we've seen. Ferrari have now played their sandbagging card and the FIA will be wise to it, and as data builds up BoP will become more and more efficient.

freedman

5,915 posts

215 months

Wednesday 17th July
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CLK-GTR said:
What's the alternative? Run fixed cars until 2029? Then you end up with F1 where one car dominates for years and a chimpanzee could win the title in it.

BoP is working so far as evidenced by the scrum to enter cars and the excellent racing we've seen. Ferrari have now played their sandbagging card and the FIA will be wise to it, and as data builds up BoP will become more and more efficient.
I’m all for the best team winning personally

There is no reason to use success ballast if BOP is such a success making things even

It’s also completely untrue that anyone can win in these cars or anything else, history shows that bar the odd occasion only top line drivers win in top line formulas, even if they stumble into a car with a distinct advantage



FredericRobinson

3,947 posts

240 months

Friday 19th July
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I guess the man from Crowdstrike will be having a weekend off from racing

The Hypno-Toad

12,714 posts

213 months

Saturday 20th July
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Hello. Out nice and early....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py2ovnxvM68

Has a very Porsche 956/962 vibe about it with that massive rear wing. Wonder who was driving? Fred?

Krikkit

27,033 posts

189 months

Wednesday 31st July
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Anyone been to Spa for the WEC? What's the access like with the general tickets? Considering it for next year.

FredericRobinson

3,947 posts

240 months

Wednesday 31st July
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Krikkit said:
Anyone been to Spa for the WEC? What's the access like with the general tickets? Considering it for next year.
Excellent, go anywhere in the public areas / grandstands/ paddock

marcosgt

11,097 posts

184 months

Thursday 1st August
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freedman said:
I’m all for the best team winning personally
...
That's fine in theory, but if you want a healthy field of top level cars, you have to make sure that it isn't always the team with the biggest budget that wins.

Look at Group C - Once Mercedes started spending big it became a near foregone conclusion until the 3.5 litre formula upset the status quo briefly, but only because Jaguar fielded a near F1 car with a roof and Mercedes and Peugeot temporarily got left behind in the 'arms race'.

Of course, as Bernie and Max intended, no-one was prepared to spend F1 money on sportscars when they could get the massive TV exposure that F1 offered.

We're living in a bit of a golden age of sportscar racing again at the moment - IMSA and the WEC are more or less aligned on rules, there are plenty of works teams and some privateers can seize a win if things go their way.

Make the most of it, though, as manufacturers will soon start questioning their spend if they're not winning...

No-one wants to go back to seeing if Toyota (or anyone else) can mange to shoot themselves in the foot at every race...

M

VladD

8,026 posts

273 months

Thursday 1st August
quotequote all
marcosgt said:
freedman said:
I’m all for the best team winning personally
...
That's fine in theory, but if you want a healthy field of top level cars, you have to make sure that it isn't always the team with the biggest budget that wins.

Look at Group C - Once Mercedes started spending big it became a near foregone conclusion until the 3.5 litre formula upset the status quo briefly, but only because Jaguar fielded a near F1 car with a roof and Mercedes and Peugeot temporarily got left behind in the 'arms race'.

Of course, as Bernie and Max intended, no-one was prepared to spend F1 money on sportscars when they could get the massive TV exposure that F1 offered.

We're living in a bit of a golden age of sportscar racing again at the moment - IMSA and the WEC are more or less aligned on rules, there are plenty of works teams and some privateers can seize a win if things go their way.

Make the most of it, though, as manufacturers will soon start questioning their spend if they're not winning...

No-one wants to go back to seeing if Toyota (or anyone else) can mange to shoot themselves in the foot at every race...

M
Couldn't agree more.

df76

Original Poster:

3,851 posts

286 months

Thursday 1st August
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FredericRobinson said:
Krikkit said:
Anyone been to Spa for the WEC? What's the access like with the general tickets? Considering it for next year.
Excellent, go anywhere in the public areas / grandstands/ paddock
Yes, was a brilliant weekend and highly recommended. Works nicely it being a Saturday race as well. Although it generally looks a lot busier now than just a couple of years ago.. for obvious reasons.

freedman

5,915 posts

215 months

Thursday 1st August
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Talking about mandating a minimum of 3 drivers in WEC

Why, and to what ends?

Who does it benefit?

Krikkit

27,033 posts

189 months

Friday 2nd August
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df76 said:
FredericRobinson said:
Krikkit said:
Anyone been to Spa for the WEC? What's the access like with the general tickets? Considering it for next year.
Excellent, go anywhere in the public areas / grandstands/ paddock
Yes, was a brilliant weekend and highly recommended. Works nicely it being a Saturday race as well. Although it generally looks a lot busier now than just a couple of years ago.. for obvious reasons.
Great, that's me booking a trip then! Brilliant.

freedman said:
Talking about mandating a minimum of 3 drivers in WEC

Why, and to what ends?

Who does it benefit?
Theoretically it means that all the drivers at LM24 will have more experience - they've done the other races with a full crew, so you don't have rookies at the front of classes.

FredericRobinson

3,947 posts

240 months

Friday 2nd August
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Is there a drivers entry fee to be paid?

CLK-GTR

1,254 posts

253 months

Friday 2nd August
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FredericRobinson said:
Is there a drivers entry fee to be paid?
No. In the WEC it's done by car, roughly 25k per race with an additional 300-500k for the season for each team.

Truckosaurus

12,073 posts

292 months

Friday 2nd August
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freedman said:
Talking about mandating a minimum of 3 drivers in WEC

Why, and to what ends?

Who does it benefit?
Also, I suspect they are trying to get consistent driving squads in the top class so they are more recognisable to casual fans.

airbusA346

1,200 posts

161 months

Friday 2nd August
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Hopefully everyone at the Nürburgring will be OK after what appears to be a compressed air/gas cylinder exploded in the GP paddock today.

Reports of several people with injuries.