Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super
Discussion
Spinakerr said:
Successful little morning while the weatehr is miserable - poured my first polyurethane bush.
Thanks to the suggestions above I sourced a realtively cheap two part kit, setup my workstation as below.
First task was to take a reference of the existing bush central metal location - dead centre, and fortunately flush on onside with the oter ring. This makes pouring easier with a single flat surface.
Original bush rubber extracted with a variety of tools - saws, hammer, sandpaper and so forth. Keying the metal surafces is key to good adhesion.
Having watched a number of videos and followed forum posts on the process, it was apparant simple cardboard and wood can bond annoyingly to the poured liquid. Examining the kit I had ordered and a quick check of plastics available, I used a simple mailing envelope as a non-bonding base. Liquid was mixed 1:1 on a scale, and poured in.
Thirty minutes later, a scalpel and careful fingers peeled away the envelope. It needs further curing but very pleased with my first attempt - hopefully its Shore rating will hold up!
Spinakerrr, thanks for posting this. I was directed here from another thread asking about pouring polybushes, which I started.Thanks to the suggestions above I sourced a realtively cheap two part kit, setup my workstation as below.
First task was to take a reference of the existing bush central metal location - dead centre, and fortunately flush on onside with the oter ring. This makes pouring easier with a single flat surface.
Original bush rubber extracted with a variety of tools - saws, hammer, sandpaper and so forth. Keying the metal surafces is key to good adhesion.
Having watched a number of videos and followed forum posts on the process, it was apparant simple cardboard and wood can bond annoyingly to the poured liquid. Examining the kit I had ordered and a quick check of plastics available, I used a simple mailing envelope as a non-bonding base. Liquid was mixed 1:1 on a scale, and poured in.
Thirty minutes later, a scalpel and careful fingers peeled away the envelope. It needs further curing but very pleased with my first attempt - hopefully its Shore rating will hold up!
Do you have a link to the product you used? And I notice that the bush you poured was to support an exhaust - do you think it would be suitable for a bush which bears more weight such as a suspension or engine mount bush?
shalmaneser said:
Was thinking the same! Two suspiciously well dressed men dropping things off the end of the pier in the middle of the night...
Ha! Let's hope they were dropping off springs and struts as I desperately need them... I have an Italian friend who said whenever his family were in large towns you were taught as a kid to avoid the black 164s and 166s.
2Btoo said:
Do you have a link to the product you used? And I notice that the bush you poured was to support an exhaust - do you think it would be suitable for a bush which bears more weight such as a suspension or engine mount bush?
Sent you a PM - it worked for my purpose but I would be little hesitant using for more 'significant' mounts...Spinakerr said:
Sent you a PM - it worked for my purpose but I would be little hesitant using for more 'significant' mounts...
Same here, from what I've seen it'd be hard to get the durability needed for an engine mount without making it rock hard. But there are quite a few youtubers who have done it....A good start to the day with a fresh MOT for the 164. At my usual place they can be ... gracious... with cars they know but this time a new tester was keen to tick every box.
Fortunately a pass after minor fettling and mumbled promises to tackle a few areas that are getting close to breaking point. That distant sound you can hear is my debit card creaking under pressure of current italian stockpiling efforts.
After the test I went to pick up a piece of furniture, skirting the arbitrary ULEZ zone and ending up in tiresome traffic. Despite the chill, the engine temperature crept up past the 75 degrees where the fan usually kicks in. No issues, but upon arrival home it was clear the fan was not operational.
As I has the whole kerfuffle apart recently I had high confidence I could track down the issue:
1) Fuse in the interior panel, 10A - check.
2) Resistance of the actual temperature sensor on the radiator - check.
3) Shorting temperature sensor wires together to kick fan in - fail.
Right, that means a relay, wiring or general power issue.
4) Relay (according to the manual) above N/S headlight - fairly gungy. All contacts filed, and for testing swapped with the identical 2111 yellow 30A item used for the horn.
5) Retry 3) shorting - relay clicking, engagement but still no fan.
6) Check contacts between fan motor and wiring from relay - 12V but... intermittent.
Quick clean of all contacts, check for continuity and then shorting one final time - success!
Restart car, final check that it all works from the radiator sensor... fine. Sorted. Just contacts and connections.
I treated myself to a 'press pack' of the twin spark launch - bliss.
A truly fine typed memorandum with handsome photographs for reprint, including such quotes as:
"(Its) superb blend of performance, handling and economy provides an exciting alternative ti the anonymous ranks of executive saloons."
I think that sums up my interest and the experience with every turn of the key.
Fortunately a pass after minor fettling and mumbled promises to tackle a few areas that are getting close to breaking point. That distant sound you can hear is my debit card creaking under pressure of current italian stockpiling efforts.
After the test I went to pick up a piece of furniture, skirting the arbitrary ULEZ zone and ending up in tiresome traffic. Despite the chill, the engine temperature crept up past the 75 degrees where the fan usually kicks in. No issues, but upon arrival home it was clear the fan was not operational.
As I has the whole kerfuffle apart recently I had high confidence I could track down the issue:
1) Fuse in the interior panel, 10A - check.
2) Resistance of the actual temperature sensor on the radiator - check.
3) Shorting temperature sensor wires together to kick fan in - fail.
Right, that means a relay, wiring or general power issue.
4) Relay (according to the manual) above N/S headlight - fairly gungy. All contacts filed, and for testing swapped with the identical 2111 yellow 30A item used for the horn.
5) Retry 3) shorting - relay clicking, engagement but still no fan.
6) Check contacts between fan motor and wiring from relay - 12V but... intermittent.
Quick clean of all contacts, check for continuity and then shorting one final time - success!
Restart car, final check that it all works from the radiator sensor... fine. Sorted. Just contacts and connections.
I treated myself to a 'press pack' of the twin spark launch - bliss.
A truly fine typed memorandum with handsome photographs for reprint, including such quotes as:
"(Its) superb blend of performance, handling and economy provides an exciting alternative ti the anonymous ranks of executive saloons."
I think that sums up my interest and the experience with every turn of the key.
Cambs_Stuart said:
Always good to see an update. How is the wiring generally holding up? Did Alfas of this era avoid the biodegradable wire coating of other makes?
Yes luckily completed dodged that bullet, only to fall headlong into the Saab, as you will recall!The 164 has not been far since the rebuild and MOT, but I have been plotting away in the background...
A good run down to Somerset to clear the brain on Friday was, as always, an therapautic use of hydrocarbons that the Alfa much appreciated. Good to clear the mind given the abhorrent turn current geopolitical events have taken, and a drive to see my dad to have a good chat (he worked in Kyiv for years and it was an incredibly place to visit as an 18 year old) was required.
It needs a proper deep clean, the paint on the wing mirror and the driver's door is not improving with another winter, but everything is working and its a grin-inducing drive on those A roads and hills of Somerset.
Suspension rebuild has made a significant step - having spoken to a numebr of other owners, and failed to secure the extinct front struts, I pushed the boat out to secure Yellowspeed Racing's custom coilover set. Feedback from those that installed this adjustable setup has been very positive, so I am excited to see how this comes together, and I did manage to secure them for the all-in fee of £730 which is very good compared to all the individual parts required for a standard setup.
As I have NOS wishbones, the next stage is to speak to Phil at Alfacraft and see if we can do the entire front subframe at the same time as all four corners. Then I can obtain all the bushes and powder coating necessary prior to a two day ramp booking in May, following Brooklands Auto Italia.
I have the front a rear subframes, trailing arms, pipes, hoses, engine mounts and, perhaps, some spare bolts, so I should be all set for a monster undercarraige refit this year.
No doubt we will find a few rust spots and holes to treat in the nooks & crannies, but if I expect it, they can't hurt me, right?
Oh I should powder coat that manifold if I am going to a coater too...
Spinakerr said:
As I have NOS wishbones, the next stage is to speak to Phil at Alfacraft and see if we can do the entire front subframe at the same time as all four corners. Then I can obtain all the bushes and powder coating necessary prior to a two day ramp booking in May, following Brooklands Auto Italia.
I have the front a rear subframes, trailing arms, pipes, hoses, engine mounts and, perhaps, some spare bolts, so I should be all set for a monster undercarraige refit this year.
No doubt we will find a few rust spots and holes to treat in the nooks & crannies, but if I expect it, they can't hurt me, right?
Oh I should powder coat that manifold if I am going to a coater too...
Phil currently has my 166 in to fit KW coilovers, he’s not been particularly well though. Amazing progress on your beauty, it’s stunning mate.I have the front a rear subframes, trailing arms, pipes, hoses, engine mounts and, perhaps, some spare bolts, so I should be all set for a monster undercarraige refit this year.
No doubt we will find a few rust spots and holes to treat in the nooks & crannies, but if I expect it, they can't hurt me, right?
Oh I should powder coat that manifold if I am going to a coater too...
Stuart - I belive solid top but lots of adjustment. A lot of the 164 drivers in the forums and owners group have been very surprised at the quality and trabsformation. Mine is on the original fronts so we'll see. Sprinfs are about to go, as are the spring pans at the front!
Steven - PM sent, thank you for the note.
Great to hear a 166 being kept up! I was cobsidering one as ULEZ transport but with the further 2023 expansion planned I may have to rethink my life in general.
No, Phil is not well. He needs a holiday and a good rest - plus a new workshop if the rumours are true.
Steven - PM sent, thank you for the note.
Great to hear a 166 being kept up! I was cobsidering one as ULEZ transport but with the further 2023 expansion planned I may have to rethink my life in general.
No, Phil is not well. He needs a holiday and a good rest - plus a new workshop if the rumours are true.
StescoG66 said:
A mate of mine has jest picked up a 164 to use its engine in a Stepnose. The rest of the car will be parted out so let me know if anything of interest and can put you in touch with him.
Love a 164! I have 2 QV’s myself. Steven, I need some bits (carpet specifically). How do I contact you?A jaunt to see a freind in the New Forest and his project - a Fiat 2300 Coupe. I had to take a few photos with the 164 on sinister skulking duties.
Far off photos in the sunset as it is pretty grubby!
Hard day's work removing the mothy interior. Should be a good base.
Obligatory 'half car half garage' shot, to pretend its in Octane or something:
Booked a load of suspension dismantleables into a powder coater for April, hopefuly for the suspension refresh now booked in with Phil for first week of May, right after Auto Italia.
Just nice to be able to drive in daylight and work in a T shirt for once!
Far off photos in the sunset as it is pretty grubby!
Hard day's work removing the mothy interior. Should be a good base.
Obligatory 'half car half garage' shot, to pretend its in Octane or something:
Booked a load of suspension dismantleables into a powder coater for April, hopefuly for the suspension refresh now booked in with Phil for first week of May, right after Auto Italia.
Just nice to be able to drive in daylight and work in a T shirt for once!
I just read the whole thread from the start. Well done, mate. I am a BMW man, through and through - but I currently own a little 67 step nose 105, which has sparked my interest in other Alfa-ry things. You have a great way of wording things and the little bits of humour really make the thread. Top work.
Cambs_Stuart said:
That looks like a great project. I always find it's slightly less stressful to work on a friends car.
Yes, and you can always call in some help on your own project down the line! This is a good one though, and he's got great plans for the 2300.e28525e said:
I just read the whole thread from the start. Well done, mate. I am a BMW man, through and through - but I currently own a little 67 step nose 105, which has sparked my interest in other Alfa-ry things. You have a great way of wording things and the little bits of humour really make the thread. Top work.
Thanks, appreciate it and glad to hear its of interest - I do foresee something 105 shaped in my future, though values have gone slightly to boiling point of late.It was Auto Italia yesterday, a highlight of the year for me as Brooklands comes alive to the sounds of fantastic machinery and the sheer volume of awesomeness makes it feel like 5 separate shows.
This year, as always, I left it to the last minute to make the 164 respectible, though I took heart to the fact that while the car has picked up marks in the 8 years of ownership, under the bonnet and in key places it is looking better and better.
Obligatory snow foam shot, as I know you're all itching to see another one of those on PH. Super resin polish applied after a good two bucket scrub, the ultimate 'quick' I have found.
After a dismal week that had me cursing not wearing a jacket on my commute, I skipped downstairs at 7am, giddy as a spring lamb, as the sun started blazing in an agreeable imitiation of an Italian spring. This year some friends joined me for a small convoy, and after a traditional early morning cafe, we left at 8am to secure our prized parking spots.
How often do you see a Lancia Flaminia in your rear view mirror?
As we neared Brooklands, the quality of traffic improved dramatically - gone were lumbering SUVs and the graphite hordes of german solidity, in came the flocks of cars actually designed with care, exhaust notes tuned for intrigue not volume and a rapid increase in road manners and politeness. Imagine if this was the typical traffic jam:
THis year I was the only mk2 164 and only twinspark, I think, though it was exciting to park next to this immaculate V6 in white for a contrast:
What I really love about Auto Italia is the atmosphere. After lockdown and a grey winter, everyone was very keen to catch up, make new friend, excitedly point out tiny interesting car things and generally create a welcoming Brooklands. Maybe it was the weather or the hydrocarbons swirling in the air, but everyone was wearing smiles and genuinely excited to get back to a proper car show.
While I had finished my first Alfa parking duties, my friends in the Lancia had secured pride of place. I'll hand over to the photos now to give you a flavour of the day.
A stuttering Zagato attracted the attention of my friend, and before I could stop him he was out twidling the screws on the carbs.... I am alwasy very careful when volunteering to 'help' on other people's cars, especially a Zagato! But fortunately he knows his stuff and got the idle back to a better shape for the owner.
There's a whole load of Ferraris and things but I'm guessing no one is interested in that. Also no one is interested in the Lambourghinis revving their inadequate ECUs to redline in the middle of crowd of people. It just marks them all out as failed carcasses.
This year, as always, I left it to the last minute to make the 164 respectible, though I took heart to the fact that while the car has picked up marks in the 8 years of ownership, under the bonnet and in key places it is looking better and better.
Obligatory snow foam shot, as I know you're all itching to see another one of those on PH. Super resin polish applied after a good two bucket scrub, the ultimate 'quick' I have found.
After a dismal week that had me cursing not wearing a jacket on my commute, I skipped downstairs at 7am, giddy as a spring lamb, as the sun started blazing in an agreeable imitiation of an Italian spring. This year some friends joined me for a small convoy, and after a traditional early morning cafe, we left at 8am to secure our prized parking spots.
How often do you see a Lancia Flaminia in your rear view mirror?
As we neared Brooklands, the quality of traffic improved dramatically - gone were lumbering SUVs and the graphite hordes of german solidity, in came the flocks of cars actually designed with care, exhaust notes tuned for intrigue not volume and a rapid increase in road manners and politeness. Imagine if this was the typical traffic jam:
THis year I was the only mk2 164 and only twinspark, I think, though it was exciting to park next to this immaculate V6 in white for a contrast:
What I really love about Auto Italia is the atmosphere. After lockdown and a grey winter, everyone was very keen to catch up, make new friend, excitedly point out tiny interesting car things and generally create a welcoming Brooklands. Maybe it was the weather or the hydrocarbons swirling in the air, but everyone was wearing smiles and genuinely excited to get back to a proper car show.
While I had finished my first Alfa parking duties, my friends in the Lancia had secured pride of place. I'll hand over to the photos now to give you a flavour of the day.
A stuttering Zagato attracted the attention of my friend, and before I could stop him he was out twidling the screws on the carbs.... I am alwasy very careful when volunteering to 'help' on other people's cars, especially a Zagato! But fortunately he knows his stuff and got the idle back to a better shape for the owner.
There's a whole load of Ferraris and things but I'm guessing no one is interested in that. Also no one is interested in the Lambourghinis revving their inadequate ECUs to redline in the middle of crowd of people. It just marks them all out as failed carcasses.
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