1978 Lancia Beta 1600 Coupe
Discussion
Oops, sorry, techno ineptitude. Corrected above. Try this -
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have been reading some stuff from the late 80s or early 90s about Betas and rust. Lancia expert Wim Oude Weerninck goes with the "Alfa, Fiat, and Lancia all bought duff steel" line, but he does not say that the steel was Russian. It might have been Russian, but it seems nobody can come up with documents on this. Other Lancia expert Martin Buckley says that the issue was mainly crappy design/execution for the mountings at the rear subframes of the first series of Beta saloons (dating from the early to mid 1970s), which was then exacerbated by rust around those mountings.
Magazine reviews of new Betas from the period 1979 to 1983 were still mainly positive, and the cars were apparently still selling well when Lancia binned the model in 83/84.
Classic and Sports Car circa 1990 thought that Betas were great and were mega bargains. This all tends to reinforce my suspicion that the reason everyone hates Betas (except people who drive them) is called: Jeremy Clarkson. He was only just starting to happen in the early 90s, and was indeed at that time making some sort of attempt at being a motoring journalist, before changing careers to become a showman.
Anyway, my Beta is going very well as it now has a digital map. No, I have absolutely no idea what that is, but the words sound very PH and, whatever it is, it makes the car happy.
I will however sell the Beta quite soon. This is not because I don't like it, but because I have just bought another Lancia that is not famous for falling to bits and which cannot be described as any sort of Fiat. It arrives tomorrow...
Magazine reviews of new Betas from the period 1979 to 1983 were still mainly positive, and the cars were apparently still selling well when Lancia binned the model in 83/84.
Classic and Sports Car circa 1990 thought that Betas were great and were mega bargains. This all tends to reinforce my suspicion that the reason everyone hates Betas (except people who drive them) is called: Jeremy Clarkson. He was only just starting to happen in the early 90s, and was indeed at that time making some sort of attempt at being a motoring journalist, before changing careers to become a showman.
Anyway, my Beta is going very well as it now has a digital map. No, I have absolutely no idea what that is, but the words sound very PH and, whatever it is, it makes the car happy.
I will however sell the Beta quite soon. This is not because I don't like it, but because I have just bought another Lancia that is not famous for falling to bits and which cannot be described as any sort of Fiat. It arrives tomorrow...
Breadvan72 said:
I have just bought another Lancia that is not famous for falling to bits and which cannot be described as any sort of Fiat. It arrives tomorrow...
Come on, don't leave us hanging:LHD?
Era?
Colour?
or are you doing a big reveal?
ps re: the steel, a PHer previously claimed the USSR and Italian gov did a deal of sorts, Fiat 128 tooling in exchange for steel, so the 128 could be manufactured and sold as a Lada.
pps: FULVIA!!
Edited by ReverendCounter on Tuesday 16th March 13:47
Edited by ReverendCounter on Tuesday 16th March 13:49
A PHer clamed....
I know. I asked the PH'er for evidence. This is not because I don't believe the story. I neither believe it nor disbelieve it. It's because I'm interested in history, and history is about evidence. The PH'er had no evidence. He said "magazines". Another Ph'er claimed that the alleged trade happened because Italy had a Communist Government in the 1970s. Italy has never had a Communist Government.
I hasten to add that Mr Weerninck and Mr Buckley don't state their sources either.
Mr Weerninck's expensive and well regarded books about Lancias can sometimes be a bit light on detail and occasionally conflict with factory information on things such as build numbers. For example, Mr W claims that a certain car was built X times. I have very recently become the owner of a late 1980s letter from a northern Italian industrial company which states that the number is Y.
Anyway....
RHD
NOT a Fulvia.
I am rare in liking Lancias but not being all that keen on
(a) Deltas (PH HERESY, BURN THE WITCH),
and
(b) Fulvias.
I know. I asked the PH'er for evidence. This is not because I don't believe the story. I neither believe it nor disbelieve it. It's because I'm interested in history, and history is about evidence. The PH'er had no evidence. He said "magazines". Another Ph'er claimed that the alleged trade happened because Italy had a Communist Government in the 1970s. Italy has never had a Communist Government.
I hasten to add that Mr Weerninck and Mr Buckley don't state their sources either.
Mr Weerninck's expensive and well regarded books about Lancias can sometimes be a bit light on detail and occasionally conflict with factory information on things such as build numbers. For example, Mr W claims that a certain car was built X times. I have very recently become the owner of a late 1980s letter from a northern Italian industrial company which states that the number is Y.
Anyway....
RHD
NOT a Fulvia.
I am rare in liking Lancias but not being all that keen on
(a) Deltas (PH HERESY, BURN THE WITCH),
and
(b) Fulvias.
Breadvan72 said:
A PHer clamed....
I know. I asked the PH'er for evidence. This is not because I don't believe the story. I neither believe it nor disbelieve it. It's because I'm interested in history, and history is about evidence. The PH'er had no evidence. He said "magazines". Another Ph'er claimed that the alleged trade happened because Italy had a Communist Government in the 1970s. Italy has never had a Communist Government.
I hasten to add that Mr Weerninck and Mr Buckley don't state their sources either.
Mr Weerninck's expensive and well regarded books about Lancias can sometimes be a bit light on detail and occasionally conflict with factory information on things such as build numbers. For example, Mr W claims that a certain car was built X times. I have very recently become the owner of a late 1980s letter from a northern Italian industrial company which states that the number is Y.
Anyway....
RHD
NOT a Fulvia.
I am rare in liking Lancias but not being all that keen on
(a) Deltas (PH HERESY, BURN THE WITCH),
and
(b) Fulvias.
I know. I asked the PH'er for evidence. This is not because I don't believe the story. I neither believe it nor disbelieve it. It's because I'm interested in history, and history is about evidence. The PH'er had no evidence. He said "magazines". Another Ph'er claimed that the alleged trade happened because Italy had a Communist Government in the 1970s. Italy has never had a Communist Government.
I hasten to add that Mr Weerninck and Mr Buckley don't state their sources either.
Mr Weerninck's expensive and well regarded books about Lancias can sometimes be a bit light on detail and occasionally conflict with factory information on things such as build numbers. For example, Mr W claims that a certain car was built X times. I have very recently become the owner of a late 1980s letter from a northern Italian industrial company which states that the number is Y.
Anyway....
RHD
NOT a Fulvia.
I am rare in liking Lancias but not being all that keen on
(a) Deltas (PH HERESY, BURN THE WITCH),
and
(b) Fulvias.
?The Fiat / Russia deal also attracted the attention of the American Government
Read document 114 on this link
http://web.archive.org/web/20090212203406/http://w...
and 134 on this one
http://web.archive.org/web/20090212203547/http://w...
The Americans are concerned on the ability of Russia to service their debt and suggested that they increased oil production to Italy. It stands to reason that Russia had other natural resources, that were possibly under utilised, such as iron ore which could be processed into steel, and that could be provided in lieu of actual lire or roubels. Unlocking the papers from Fiat or the Russian Governement is unlikely.
The Togliattigrad plant that Fiat helped set up apparently also had its own steel refinery to produce steel from iron ore, and also produced glass and even tyres.
The quality of the steel used in Lancias in the 1960's was significantly better than the quality of the 1970's, and this co-incides with the Fiat / Lada deal.
Is this simply co-incidence?
Currently restoring a Beta Spider - very low mileage and virtually rust free. Some surface rust about fasteners and where trim clips attach but remarkably good, thanks to kind storage since new and lots of Ziebart.
Read document 114 on this link
http://web.archive.org/web/20090212203406/http://w...
and 134 on this one
http://web.archive.org/web/20090212203547/http://w...
The Americans are concerned on the ability of Russia to service their debt and suggested that they increased oil production to Italy. It stands to reason that Russia had other natural resources, that were possibly under utilised, such as iron ore which could be processed into steel, and that could be provided in lieu of actual lire or roubels. Unlocking the papers from Fiat or the Russian Governement is unlikely.
The Togliattigrad plant that Fiat helped set up apparently also had its own steel refinery to produce steel from iron ore, and also produced glass and even tyres.
The quality of the steel used in Lancias in the 1960's was significantly better than the quality of the 1970's, and this co-incides with the Fiat / Lada deal.
Is this simply co-incidence?
Currently restoring a Beta Spider - very low mileage and virtually rust free. Some surface rust about fasteners and where trim clips attach but remarkably good, thanks to kind storage since new and lots of Ziebart.
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