As 2020 hasn't been awful enough yet = my £750 Citroen C6!
Discussion
Having obtained a year's ticket, I threw some tax on the C6 at the beginning of December and decided to start using it as-is. My logic (or lack-of) was that now I have a replacement gearbox, it doesn't matter too much if this one dies on the side of a road. Apart from the prospect of having to push an 1850kg car with huge tyres and a busted automatic gearbox, of course.
First things first, I owe the C6 (in general) an apology. A while back, having read "Citroen SM: Accidental Death of an Icon", I got a little more passionate about Citroen in the pre-PSA days (I defy anybody who reads that book not to) and decided that, unless a model was genuinely innovative, that it was not a real Citroen. Therefore, the C6 was more a technical exercise for the company, which might also aid marketing, and the last true Citroen was, in my opinion, the Xantia Activa.
Well, I don't think I'm hugely far away about the C6. It isn't really that innovative, in that there isn't much on it that is new or hasn't been seen on other cars, at some point. The suspension is an evolution of that used on the C5 (the fugly one too), and things like laminated side-windows had already been used on the C4, let alone other brands like Mercedes, who I'm sure also fitted a heads-up display to some S-Classes. Oh, and headlamps that steer around corners? Pah! They've been around since 1967! (1970, if you want them to self-level).
However, I needed to cut Citroen some slack. I mean, how many things can you keep inventing? And just because you think of something new, doesn't mean people are going to buy the car, it just means losers like me get excited about it when the arse has fallen out of their resale value, and one or two of those innovations might still work...intermittantly, at least.
The other, more important reason, is that Citroen need a massive, MASSIVE pat on the back for even getting this thing past the PSA accountants. It just makes no sense! They knew they wouldn't sell any - regardless of how good it was - and even with some heavy parts-bin raiding (there are a LOT of shared components with all manner of other mainsteam PSA cars, mainly C5 and Peugeot 407) it was still going to cost a bomb to make. Even at £38k, I'd be surprised if they made much of a profit on it. And that's before you consider that the car itself was massively late to release! It was meant to be ready five years previously, and it's no surprise that, despite it being a newer car than the C4 I've replaced it with, the C4 feels more modern. Looks-wise, the C6 is a little timeless, to my eyes, but in terms of the trim and the interior, it's all very mid-naughties.
Still, you overlook the Pug 407 stereo and heater panel, or the C4 door handles and centre caps. You overlook the billy-basic side repeaters, too. Why? Because you can sense the enthusiasm of the designers every time you open the door. You don't stop looking at it; Well, I know I don't! You keep finding new angles that you never noticed design details on before, and it feels special every time you're stood near it. And that, is why this is a true Citroen: It feels special!
The more hundrum PSA-based mainstream cars produced wearing double-chevrons might not (although they certainly feel more interesting than their rather conservative Peugeot counterparts), but the C6 does stand apart. My C4 VTS has a certain element of 'funkiness' about it (I don't mean it stinks), but it's purely style over substance as underneath it's thoroughly average. A Ford Focus drives much, much better.
The C6 is funky; different; stylish; eye-catching and 'out-there', but more than that, it's still a wafty Citroen. Sure, it doesn't neccessarily do anything new or different to previous Chevron offerings, but who says it needs to? Couple everything it does with everything it is, and it's every inch the traditional Citroen.
There, you heard it here first; I was wrong!
I'll do a progress-report on the £750 C6 soon, I promise. Short-version: I love it! It's still saddled with faults, and there is still a lot of work to be done, but I'm feeling that it's worth doing it now much more than I was when I got it. I think when it arrived, I bought it and set about fixing it simply due to protocol; I'd bought a car that most people run away from (even in perfect condition), and it was all a bit of a joke and a bit of fun, and I've got a ramp so I might as well fix it etc. Nothing to lose and all that.
Well, that's changed. I now want this car to work as well as it possible can, simply because it's my favourite way of getting around. It's the car that, right now, I would choose to drive out of all the cars I currently own, and that's despite the faults. Faults which prevent you from being able to do more than about 10 miles in it before it makes it so obvious that it's in pain you feel bad for setting off.
The big repair will come, I'm just waiting for a ramp. I'll go into details about my adventures so far later on, though.
First things first, I owe the C6 (in general) an apology. A while back, having read "Citroen SM: Accidental Death of an Icon", I got a little more passionate about Citroen in the pre-PSA days (I defy anybody who reads that book not to) and decided that, unless a model was genuinely innovative, that it was not a real Citroen. Therefore, the C6 was more a technical exercise for the company, which might also aid marketing, and the last true Citroen was, in my opinion, the Xantia Activa.
Well, I don't think I'm hugely far away about the C6. It isn't really that innovative, in that there isn't much on it that is new or hasn't been seen on other cars, at some point. The suspension is an evolution of that used on the C5 (the fugly one too), and things like laminated side-windows had already been used on the C4, let alone other brands like Mercedes, who I'm sure also fitted a heads-up display to some S-Classes. Oh, and headlamps that steer around corners? Pah! They've been around since 1967! (1970, if you want them to self-level).
However, I needed to cut Citroen some slack. I mean, how many things can you keep inventing? And just because you think of something new, doesn't mean people are going to buy the car, it just means losers like me get excited about it when the arse has fallen out of their resale value, and one or two of those innovations might still work...intermittantly, at least.
The other, more important reason, is that Citroen need a massive, MASSIVE pat on the back for even getting this thing past the PSA accountants. It just makes no sense! They knew they wouldn't sell any - regardless of how good it was - and even with some heavy parts-bin raiding (there are a LOT of shared components with all manner of other mainsteam PSA cars, mainly C5 and Peugeot 407) it was still going to cost a bomb to make. Even at £38k, I'd be surprised if they made much of a profit on it. And that's before you consider that the car itself was massively late to release! It was meant to be ready five years previously, and it's no surprise that, despite it being a newer car than the C4 I've replaced it with, the C4 feels more modern. Looks-wise, the C6 is a little timeless, to my eyes, but in terms of the trim and the interior, it's all very mid-naughties.
Still, you overlook the Pug 407 stereo and heater panel, or the C4 door handles and centre caps. You overlook the billy-basic side repeaters, too. Why? Because you can sense the enthusiasm of the designers every time you open the door. You don't stop looking at it; Well, I know I don't! You keep finding new angles that you never noticed design details on before, and it feels special every time you're stood near it. And that, is why this is a true Citroen: It feels special!
The more hundrum PSA-based mainstream cars produced wearing double-chevrons might not (although they certainly feel more interesting than their rather conservative Peugeot counterparts), but the C6 does stand apart. My C4 VTS has a certain element of 'funkiness' about it (I don't mean it stinks), but it's purely style over substance as underneath it's thoroughly average. A Ford Focus drives much, much better.
The C6 is funky; different; stylish; eye-catching and 'out-there', but more than that, it's still a wafty Citroen. Sure, it doesn't neccessarily do anything new or different to previous Chevron offerings, but who says it needs to? Couple everything it does with everything it is, and it's every inch the traditional Citroen.
There, you heard it here first; I was wrong!
I'll do a progress-report on the £750 C6 soon, I promise. Short-version: I love it! It's still saddled with faults, and there is still a lot of work to be done, but I'm feeling that it's worth doing it now much more than I was when I got it. I think when it arrived, I bought it and set about fixing it simply due to protocol; I'd bought a car that most people run away from (even in perfect condition), and it was all a bit of a joke and a bit of fun, and I've got a ramp so I might as well fix it etc. Nothing to lose and all that.
Well, that's changed. I now want this car to work as well as it possible can, simply because it's my favourite way of getting around. It's the car that, right now, I would choose to drive out of all the cars I currently own, and that's despite the faults. Faults which prevent you from being able to do more than about 10 miles in it before it makes it so obvious that it's in pain you feel bad for setting off.
The big repair will come, I'm just waiting for a ramp. I'll go into details about my adventures so far later on, though.
Just discovered this thread and thoroughly enjoyed it. My dad used to have Citroens (BX's, Xantia's and C5's) and my brother and I went through a load of them (AX, ZX, Xsara VTR, C4 VTR, Saxo VTR/S) Funnily enough I was looking at old shed-money Citroens the other day wondering if I want to torture myself again. 
I've always admired the C6. Good luck to you.
I've always admired the C6. Good luck to you. As soon as you get in and use the massively over styled and very pretty door bins, you realise this was more than an exercise in engineering. To me it was like designers penning a love letter to themselves. As you touched on, they knew damn well it would never recoup any investment made however, it exists and the world is a better place for it. I still miss mine every day. Its like a Newfoundland dog, they are hugely compromised in they shed enough hair to fill a duvet once a week but they are super friendly beasts and you would never kick it if when it pees on the floor, LDS fluid I'm looking at you here!
shalmaneser said:
Good to hear! These are magnificent barges and I'm sure a perfect counterpart to a noisy sports car. You surely won't lose too much money on it given the purchase price as they're sure to get rarer.
Yes, definitely an antidote to the noise and intensity of...well, pretty much anything! Hopefully won't lose out too much £££-wise, but I'm not really fussed. As long as it pays for itself, which so far it has done.Leftfootwonder said:
Just discovered this thread and thoroughly enjoyed it. My dad used to have Citroens (BX's, Xantia's and C5's) and my brother and I went through a load of them (AX, ZX, Xsara VTR, C4 VTR, Saxo VTR/S) Funnily enough I was looking at old shed-money Citroens the other day wondering if I want to torture myself again. I've always admired the C6. Good luck to you.
I've had (or still own) everything in your list, except the C5. Can't get over the looks - shocking-looking things, they really are. I've always admired the C6. Good luck to you. Vickers_VC10 said:
As soon as you get in and use the massively over styled and very pretty door bins, you realise this was more than an exercise in engineering. To me it was like designers penning a love letter to themselves. As you touched on, they knew damn well it would never recoup any investment made however, it exists and the world is a better place for it. I still miss mine every day. Its like a Newfoundland dog, they are hugely compromised in they shed enough hair to fill a duvet once a week but they are super friendly beasts and you would never kick it if when it pees on the floor, LDS fluid I'm looking at you here!
I'll let you know if I end up kicking it! Scobblelotcher said:
Excellent thread as ever! I may see you around as I often visit Barneys Superbikes just around the corner and I’m often around that area.
I went in one of these years ago and it blew me away how comfortable it was and they also move well given the weight.
Ah yes, you'll probably spot it!I went in one of these years ago and it blew me away how comfortable it was and they also move well given the weight.
It does hustle along quite well, yeah. Far more so than anyone would ever have you believe.
Well, at the beginning of December I made the decision to put the C6 into service, despite the fact it wasn't strictly...well, fixed. My logic was that seeing as it was already broken, I had nothing to lose!
By luck rather than judgement, this proved to be a masterstroke, taking my grand total of great ideas since 1983 (when records began) to three. I genuine believe that if I hadn't put it on the road, warts 'n all, it'd still be dumped at my workshop collecting moss. "I'll do it when I have time" says I, knowing full well he never has 'time'.
Granted, the first thing I decided to tackle was a part that wasn't actually fitted to the car anyway, as I'd left it off from the last time I had it up in the air. This was the engine undertray. On some cars this is purely a loose piece of protection (if the car in question is from the VAG stable, it's probably no longer there anyway). On other cars - cars that are a bit more cleverer - it forms part of the aerodynamics and affects the cooling efficiency of the radiator. I've gone and stuck the C6 on the road without it, which I'm sure will be fine. It's not like it has a high-capacity, twin-turbo charged diesel engine and active aero, right?
The reason it needed tackling was that it was split. It wasn't fully in two pieces, but it was well on the way, and I figured prevention is better than cure, so I beefed it up.
Why so many rivets? Because there's some sealant in there too, and it was quicker than clamping it together!
Meh...I'll throw some black paint over it. It'll soon get covered in s
t! Main thing is that it's now strong...stronger than it was previously, I should think.
The C6 was now on the road. The handbrake issue I'd sorted, but the suspension and gearbox issues remained. However, much more pressing than either of those two minor issues was a more serious problem that required my attention. You see, the headlamps on the C6 are xenon, as you'd expect and that gives off a nice, crisp white light.
The sidelights, however...oh man! They're not white at all. Being a standard W5W (501) bulb, they're like a tinged yellow. Kinda like the doorframes of your average 1980's council house. You know, the one with an ashtray next to the telephone in the hallway.
I decided this was something I could live with no longer. I installed these:
Kudos to Citroen on this one, because looking at those headlamps (especially with the bonnet open) you'd assume they'd be a total pig to change, but no! Open the little access panel on the side of the unit, and rotate the long white rod-ish stick thing.
50% there:
While I was playing with the headlamps, I decided to play with the laptop. I told it to depressurise the system, to see what would happen. Resulting low-boi image below:
When it depressurises, the fluid all returns to the reservoir, and in my case it overflowed and spilled a bit. I'm taking that as a sign it was overfilled. Incidentally, these LDS-based systems are quite different to the older LHM ones. In the case of the latter, overfilling the reservoir (as a result of a faulty level indicator, or an ignorant operator (ask me how I know...both times)) leaves you with a worst case scenario of wasting a load of money in the form of a bright green puddle on the floor. The reservoir on a BX or Xantia, for example, barely seals. It's a fully breathable setup, and, of course, with the cars sinking when they're switched off and then pumping up again when they're restarted, the level tends to fluctuate quite a bit; When the suspension is slammed, the tank is full, and when it's raised as high as it'll go, it's...well, it's not empty, but it's got less in it.
An LHM car is also pretty fully mechanical, when it comes to the pressure regulation side of things. The engine runs a mechanical pump, which whips the green blood up into a froth until it reaches about 1400psi. The regulation is done via springs and valves, and in the event you want to release the pressure completely (dropping the car to low does not achieve this), you simply turn a 12mm-headed bolt head about 180degrees, and wait for a hiss.
LDS cars are different. LDS cars are far more complicated! For a start, the pump is electric, not engine-driven. The evolution of this is pretty much as per the evolution of power-steering pumps, where, certainly in PSA's field, electro-hydraulic was flavour of the month. Lots of PSA cars (starting with the Saxo) have run electrically powered hydraulic pumps, and the cars from the C6's era even used the same LDS fluid for their steering as the C6 does for its suspension. Of course, with the LHM cars, the high-pressure circuit powered the steering and brakes too, meaning you got fully-powered brakes, as opposed to assisted brakes via a servo. C6 runs a servo, like a peasant's Kia Rio. I mean, you can kind of pretend they're the same, as they do actually share the reservoir, but the PAS pump is a standard belt-driven affair. Bum.
In terms of space and packaging, it's much neater, because you have far less in the way of pipework and hoses littering the engine bay. The pump can also act as regulator and distributor, too, but there are some quirks to this system. Firstly, for reasons I don't fully understand, the reservoir isn't breathable. When jacking a LDS-suspended Cit up, it's imperative you remove the cap from the LDS tank, because if the suspension droops as you raise the car, it can fracture the tank. Yes, really. Same with C5s, too. I assume that if you raise the suspension to its highest setting, effectively locking-out the travel, you shouldn't need to. I think...
For the same reasons, overfilling the system is bad. The level in the tank has to be bob-on, because if it's not it can cause you all manner of headaches. You actually have to connect a laptop to the car and tell it to check its own fluid level, and in doing so, it depressurises and repressurises. Mine spilt a bit out (luckily I'd removed the cap). I guess that's right; I never actually bothered to find out.
The other reason I'd slapdashedly dumped my laptop on the roof, was to see if I could enter the system and learn any reasons as to why my suspension was titting about. I'd made a bit of progress there, you see (once I'd finished doing the important jobs, like fitting tarty LEDs to the headlamps).
Earlier that day, I'd gone hunting on the forums seeing if I could find other people with my suspension issues. I was convinced it wasn't a mechanical issue, as when you first pulled away in it, the ride seemed fine. Not amazing, but not terrible. Eventually, the on-board computer screen would beep loudly at you, while proudly telling you that the car's main standout feature was, indeed, faulty. You'd already know this, however, because it had already started riding like an Audi A3 S-Line.
While traversing the forums, I (perhaps unsurprisingly) found a load of people reporting suspension issues, but despite their commonplace, I was surprisingly relaxed. The fact is that thought everybody tells me these cars are a nightmare, and are scary, I'm just not scared of it. I've got that much faith in Citroen's engineering (generally) that if the car develops a fault, I tend to assume there is a simple explanation, and that I just need to find it. It's probably going to be down to human error, too.
I stumbled upon a thread started by a chap with very similar issues to myself. The only difference for him (other than the fact he'd lived with it 18months, the masochist) was that his car had a pattern to the issue. He'd pull away from standstill, and then after 30secs of driving, he'd get the 'suspension faulty' error message, followed by a German ride quality. Mine wasn't doing that; Mine was just random.
Having read this post when I was meant to be doing something else, I popped out at lunch to grab some food, and decided to count how long my car took to have the same problem. I figured that if I kept a log, there might be a pattern to it.
I drove to the traffic lights, and stopped. I pulled away and counted; 1...2...3...(that's how counting works, you see). When I got to 30secs on the fking nose, I get the beep. Wow! What a coincidence!
I try it again...30 secs. Madness! What are the odds.
Third time lucky...30secs. Hmmm, I can't be wrong here. It must be the car.
Fourth time...32secs. A-hah!
Fifth time...38secs.
Sixth...29secs.
And then, it hit me. It was every 30 secs after all, but it wasn't 30secs after pulling away, it was 30secs after it went over enough of a bump to make the suspension do something! Apart from the sixth time...I think I overestimated my counting ability with that one.
To test this theory, I found a very smooth road, and managed to make it last 50secs. I did the same road again, only this time wobbled the steering and hit the brakes at speed, to make the suspension compress. 30secs later...beep.
OK, this was promising stuff. I was still nonthewiser as to what the issue might be, but I firstly had an ally (unbeknown to them) with the same problem, and secondly I'd figured out that it was the movement of the suspension that was the problem. Everything else about the suspension was fine, it was just when it went over a bump that I had a problem. If it was parked up outside my house, it was fine. It was only when I wanted to drive it, and more specifcally, drive along a road that wasn't as smooth as a compact disc (remember them!?)
So, when I started pratting around with the suspension pressure, I also did some reading about setting up the suspension. When I say 'reading', what I mean is I scan-read everything people had written in about 10mins, took it all as fact without further questioning any of their logic and then compiled my own assumption about how the brain of an active-suspension system works.
People were talking about taking measurements, and inputting numbers, and so I did the same thing...only I guessed. I did actually measure one of the figures I needed, but guessed the rest and half-heartedly threw it in there to see what happened.
When I did this, the car responded by lowering itself from the height it had previously been running at, to around 10mm lower. The computer informed me that all the information I'd just entered into it had not been accepted, and told me to go away, in French.
Running late, I left the workshop and drove home. To my astonishment...the suspension fault had gone! No beeps; No Audi ride-quality...OH MY GOD! I'd fixed it! The service history is littered with receipts from other Citroen garages trying to sort this out, and boom! I'd guessed right first time, spent no money and fixed my 'massively complex' car!
Well, not quite. Yes, it wasn't going hard any more, but it was clearly riding too low. The front end was bottoming out, and though it was now much nicer to drive than it was previously, it clearly wasn't happy.
Time to start taking it seriously...
By luck rather than judgement, this proved to be a masterstroke, taking my grand total of great ideas since 1983 (when records began) to three. I genuine believe that if I hadn't put it on the road, warts 'n all, it'd still be dumped at my workshop collecting moss. "I'll do it when I have time" says I, knowing full well he never has 'time'.
Granted, the first thing I decided to tackle was a part that wasn't actually fitted to the car anyway, as I'd left it off from the last time I had it up in the air. This was the engine undertray. On some cars this is purely a loose piece of protection (if the car in question is from the VAG stable, it's probably no longer there anyway). On other cars - cars that are a bit more cleverer - it forms part of the aerodynamics and affects the cooling efficiency of the radiator. I've gone and stuck the C6 on the road without it, which I'm sure will be fine. It's not like it has a high-capacity, twin-turbo charged diesel engine and active aero, right?
The reason it needed tackling was that it was split. It wasn't fully in two pieces, but it was well on the way, and I figured prevention is better than cure, so I beefed it up.
Why so many rivets? Because there's some sealant in there too, and it was quicker than clamping it together!
Meh...I'll throw some black paint over it. It'll soon get covered in s
t! Main thing is that it's now strong...stronger than it was previously, I should think.The C6 was now on the road. The handbrake issue I'd sorted, but the suspension and gearbox issues remained. However, much more pressing than either of those two minor issues was a more serious problem that required my attention. You see, the headlamps on the C6 are xenon, as you'd expect and that gives off a nice, crisp white light.
The sidelights, however...oh man! They're not white at all. Being a standard W5W (501) bulb, they're like a tinged yellow. Kinda like the doorframes of your average 1980's council house. You know, the one with an ashtray next to the telephone in the hallway.
I decided this was something I could live with no longer. I installed these:
Kudos to Citroen on this one, because looking at those headlamps (especially with the bonnet open) you'd assume they'd be a total pig to change, but no! Open the little access panel on the side of the unit, and rotate the long white rod-ish stick thing.
50% there:
While I was playing with the headlamps, I decided to play with the laptop. I told it to depressurise the system, to see what would happen. Resulting low-boi image below:
When it depressurises, the fluid all returns to the reservoir, and in my case it overflowed and spilled a bit. I'm taking that as a sign it was overfilled. Incidentally, these LDS-based systems are quite different to the older LHM ones. In the case of the latter, overfilling the reservoir (as a result of a faulty level indicator, or an ignorant operator (ask me how I know...both times)) leaves you with a worst case scenario of wasting a load of money in the form of a bright green puddle on the floor. The reservoir on a BX or Xantia, for example, barely seals. It's a fully breathable setup, and, of course, with the cars sinking when they're switched off and then pumping up again when they're restarted, the level tends to fluctuate quite a bit; When the suspension is slammed, the tank is full, and when it's raised as high as it'll go, it's...well, it's not empty, but it's got less in it.
An LHM car is also pretty fully mechanical, when it comes to the pressure regulation side of things. The engine runs a mechanical pump, which whips the green blood up into a froth until it reaches about 1400psi. The regulation is done via springs and valves, and in the event you want to release the pressure completely (dropping the car to low does not achieve this), you simply turn a 12mm-headed bolt head about 180degrees, and wait for a hiss.
LDS cars are different. LDS cars are far more complicated! For a start, the pump is electric, not engine-driven. The evolution of this is pretty much as per the evolution of power-steering pumps, where, certainly in PSA's field, electro-hydraulic was flavour of the month. Lots of PSA cars (starting with the Saxo) have run electrically powered hydraulic pumps, and the cars from the C6's era even used the same LDS fluid for their steering as the C6 does for its suspension. Of course, with the LHM cars, the high-pressure circuit powered the steering and brakes too, meaning you got fully-powered brakes, as opposed to assisted brakes via a servo. C6 runs a servo, like a peasant's Kia Rio. I mean, you can kind of pretend they're the same, as they do actually share the reservoir, but the PAS pump is a standard belt-driven affair. Bum.
In terms of space and packaging, it's much neater, because you have far less in the way of pipework and hoses littering the engine bay. The pump can also act as regulator and distributor, too, but there are some quirks to this system. Firstly, for reasons I don't fully understand, the reservoir isn't breathable. When jacking a LDS-suspended Cit up, it's imperative you remove the cap from the LDS tank, because if the suspension droops as you raise the car, it can fracture the tank. Yes, really. Same with C5s, too. I assume that if you raise the suspension to its highest setting, effectively locking-out the travel, you shouldn't need to. I think...
For the same reasons, overfilling the system is bad. The level in the tank has to be bob-on, because if it's not it can cause you all manner of headaches. You actually have to connect a laptop to the car and tell it to check its own fluid level, and in doing so, it depressurises and repressurises. Mine spilt a bit out (luckily I'd removed the cap). I guess that's right; I never actually bothered to find out.
The other reason I'd slapdashedly dumped my laptop on the roof, was to see if I could enter the system and learn any reasons as to why my suspension was titting about. I'd made a bit of progress there, you see (once I'd finished doing the important jobs, like fitting tarty LEDs to the headlamps).
Earlier that day, I'd gone hunting on the forums seeing if I could find other people with my suspension issues. I was convinced it wasn't a mechanical issue, as when you first pulled away in it, the ride seemed fine. Not amazing, but not terrible. Eventually, the on-board computer screen would beep loudly at you, while proudly telling you that the car's main standout feature was, indeed, faulty. You'd already know this, however, because it had already started riding like an Audi A3 S-Line.
While traversing the forums, I (perhaps unsurprisingly) found a load of people reporting suspension issues, but despite their commonplace, I was surprisingly relaxed. The fact is that thought everybody tells me these cars are a nightmare, and are scary, I'm just not scared of it. I've got that much faith in Citroen's engineering (generally) that if the car develops a fault, I tend to assume there is a simple explanation, and that I just need to find it. It's probably going to be down to human error, too.
I stumbled upon a thread started by a chap with very similar issues to myself. The only difference for him (other than the fact he'd lived with it 18months, the masochist) was that his car had a pattern to the issue. He'd pull away from standstill, and then after 30secs of driving, he'd get the 'suspension faulty' error message, followed by a German ride quality. Mine wasn't doing that; Mine was just random.
Having read this post when I was meant to be doing something else, I popped out at lunch to grab some food, and decided to count how long my car took to have the same problem. I figured that if I kept a log, there might be a pattern to it.
I drove to the traffic lights, and stopped. I pulled away and counted; 1...2...3...(that's how counting works, you see). When I got to 30secs on the f
king nose, I get the beep. Wow! What a coincidence!I try it again...30 secs. Madness! What are the odds.
Third time lucky...30secs. Hmmm, I can't be wrong here. It must be the car.
Fourth time...32secs. A-hah!
Fifth time...38secs.
Sixth...29secs.
And then, it hit me. It was every 30 secs after all, but it wasn't 30secs after pulling away, it was 30secs after it went over enough of a bump to make the suspension do something! Apart from the sixth time...I think I overestimated my counting ability with that one.
To test this theory, I found a very smooth road, and managed to make it last 50secs. I did the same road again, only this time wobbled the steering and hit the brakes at speed, to make the suspension compress. 30secs later...beep.
OK, this was promising stuff. I was still nonthewiser as to what the issue might be, but I firstly had an ally (unbeknown to them) with the same problem, and secondly I'd figured out that it was the movement of the suspension that was the problem. Everything else about the suspension was fine, it was just when it went over a bump that I had a problem. If it was parked up outside my house, it was fine. It was only when I wanted to drive it, and more specifcally, drive along a road that wasn't as smooth as a compact disc (remember them!?)
So, when I started pratting around with the suspension pressure, I also did some reading about setting up the suspension. When I say 'reading', what I mean is I scan-read everything people had written in about 10mins, took it all as fact without further questioning any of their logic and then compiled my own assumption about how the brain of an active-suspension system works.
People were talking about taking measurements, and inputting numbers, and so I did the same thing...only I guessed. I did actually measure one of the figures I needed, but guessed the rest and half-heartedly threw it in there to see what happened.
When I did this, the car responded by lowering itself from the height it had previously been running at, to around 10mm lower. The computer informed me that all the information I'd just entered into it had not been accepted, and told me to go away, in French.
Running late, I left the workshop and drove home. To my astonishment...the suspension fault had gone! No beeps; No Audi ride-quality...OH MY GOD! I'd fixed it! The service history is littered with receipts from other Citroen garages trying to sort this out, and boom! I'd guessed right first time, spent no money and fixed my 'massively complex' car!
Well, not quite. Yes, it wasn't going hard any more, but it was clearly riding too low. The front end was bottoming out, and though it was now much nicer to drive than it was previously, it clearly wasn't happy.
Time to start taking it seriously...
I already thought you were taking it seriously.......................
Funny enough I was following a black one of these with Mrs BC in the car
Mrs BC "what the chuff is that"
BC "Citroen C6"
Mrs BC "is that 2007" (57 Plate but she struggles with modern plate formats - the 70 ones really fugged with her head just just about worked out the last decade ones)
BC "yep"
Mrs BC "I've never seen one before"
BC "I'm actually following a thread on one on PH"
Mrs BC "No way you are buying one it's fugly - it's clearly been left in the sun look at the rear screen it's melted and sagged"
BC "same as a Citroen CX - like your cousin used to have"
Mrs BC "I like those"
BC "Just as complicated"
Mrs BC "so if you are not going to buy one and they are complicated why are you following a thread on one"
BC "it's a pain pleasure thing except I don't feel the pain"
Mrs BC "you are just weird!"
I have absolutely zero love for this but very much enjoying following your experiences because I think someone has to do it or they will all disappear
Funny enough I was following a black one of these with Mrs BC in the car
Mrs BC "what the chuff is that"
BC "Citroen C6"
Mrs BC "is that 2007" (57 Plate but she struggles with modern plate formats - the 70 ones really fugged with her head just just about worked out the last decade ones)
BC "yep"
Mrs BC "I've never seen one before"
BC "I'm actually following a thread on one on PH"
Mrs BC "No way you are buying one it's fugly - it's clearly been left in the sun look at the rear screen it's melted and sagged"
BC "same as a Citroen CX - like your cousin used to have"
Mrs BC "I like those"
BC "Just as complicated"
Mrs BC "so if you are not going to buy one and they are complicated why are you following a thread on one"
BC "it's a pain pleasure thing except I don't feel the pain"
Mrs BC "you are just weird!"
I have absolutely zero love for this but very much enjoying following your experiences because I think someone has to do it or they will all disappear
I love the photo with lots of orange puddles 
at least it's not green.....
Hey Claude that hydraulic fluid use?
Yes?
I want it to look less obvious and make it look like rusty water.
To go to your point on the LDS tank, yes. Always take the cap off it's very easy to pull a huge vacuum in the system, also frowned upon to let the wheels dangle off a four post car lift.
You should consider remapping it, I did this to mine and it went very well indeed, suprised a few things.....like a HGV lol no seriously it went very well.
at least it's not green.....Hey Claude that hydraulic fluid use?
Yes?
I want it to look less obvious and make it look like rusty water.
To go to your point on the LDS tank, yes. Always take the cap off it's very easy to pull a huge vacuum in the system, also frowned upon to let the wheels dangle off a four post car lift.
You should consider remapping it, I did this to mine and it went very well indeed, suprised a few things.....like a HGV lol no seriously it went very well.
Love this! I worked at a Citroen dealer when they were new and always thought they were really cool.
Nearly bought one a few years back when I wanted a 4 door daily, however I was so scared of the big bills I went for an Alfa Romeo 159 instead. You know it’s bad when the Alfa is potentially the less ruinous option!
Nearly bought one a few years back when I wanted a 4 door daily, however I was so scared of the big bills I went for an Alfa Romeo 159 instead. You know it’s bad when the Alfa is potentially the less ruinous option!
B'stard Child said:
I already thought you were taking it seriously.......................
Funny enough I was following a black one of these with Mrs BC in the car
Mrs BC "what the chuff is that"
BC "Citroen C6"
Mrs BC "is that 2007" (57 Plate but she struggles with modern plate formats - the 70 ones really fugged with her head just just about worked out the last decade ones)
BC "yep"
Mrs BC "I've never seen one before"
BC "I'm actually following a thread on one on PH"
Mrs BC "No way you are buying one it's fugly - it's clearly been left in the sun look at the rear screen it's melted and sagged"
BC "same as a Citroen CX - like your cousin used to have"
Mrs BC "I like those"
BC "Just as complicated"
Mrs BC "so if you are not going to buy one and they are complicated why are you following a thread on one"
BC "it's a pain pleasure thing except I don't feel the pain"
Mrs BC "you are just weird!"
I have absolutely zero love for this but very much enjoying following your experiences because I think someone has to do it or they will all disappear
Thanks....I think!Funny enough I was following a black one of these with Mrs BC in the car
Mrs BC "what the chuff is that"
BC "Citroen C6"
Mrs BC "is that 2007" (57 Plate but she struggles with modern plate formats - the 70 ones really fugged with her head just just about worked out the last decade ones)
BC "yep"
Mrs BC "I've never seen one before"
BC "I'm actually following a thread on one on PH"
Mrs BC "No way you are buying one it's fugly - it's clearly been left in the sun look at the rear screen it's melted and sagged"
BC "same as a Citroen CX - like your cousin used to have"
Mrs BC "I like those"
BC "Just as complicated"
Mrs BC "so if you are not going to buy one and they are complicated why are you following a thread on one"
BC "it's a pain pleasure thing except I don't feel the pain"
Mrs BC "you are just weird!"
I have absolutely zero love for this but very much enjoying following your experiences because I think someone has to do it or they will all disappear
Bobberoo99 said:
I always enjoy following your threads, i keep meaning to stop by one day and at least get eyes on your lovely Hillman Imp, but this thread is great reading itself!!
It's sitting under a blanket covered in old AX bits at the moment! But one day I'm sure you can come see it.Vickers_VC10 said:
I love the photo with lots of orange puddles at least it's not green.....
Hey Claude that hydraulic fluid use?
Yes?
I want it to look less obvious and make it look like rusty water.
To go to your point on the LDS tank, yes. Always take the cap off it's very easy to pull a huge vacuum in the system, also frowned upon to let the wheels dangle off a four post car lift.
You should consider remapping it, I did this to mine and it went very well indeed, suprised a few things.....like a HGV lol no seriously it went very well.
Seriously, it's quick enough for me. Unless the remap massively improves the economy... at least it's not green.....Hey Claude that hydraulic fluid use?
Yes?
I want it to look less obvious and make it look like rusty water.
To go to your point on the LDS tank, yes. Always take the cap off it's very easy to pull a huge vacuum in the system, also frowned upon to let the wheels dangle off a four post car lift.
You should consider remapping it, I did this to mine and it went very well indeed, suprised a few things.....like a HGV lol no seriously it went very well.
shalmaneser said:
I have developed a worrying appreciation for the Hillman Imp over the last few years... Is there a thread anywhere?
As with all my threads, it's horrendously out of date:https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
samoht said:
Love the sophistication of these, can't wait to hear the details of how one re-programmes the suspension, I find it all fascinating! Glad you're making progress with the issue at least.
You won't have to wait much longer! The weekend, most likely.Shadow R1 said:
Great update.
Interesting regarding the suspension and getting it setup right.
I've definitely learned something new.Interesting regarding the suspension and getting it setup right.
lb3nson said:
Love this! I worked at a Citroen dealer when they were new and always thought they were really cool.
Nearly bought one a few years back when I wanted a 4 door daily, however I was so scared of the big bills I went for an Alfa Romeo 159 instead. You know it’s bad when the Alfa is potentially the less ruinous option!
I'm sure they're equally reliable....in a good way!Nearly bought one a few years back when I wanted a 4 door daily, however I was so scared of the big bills I went for an Alfa Romeo 159 instead. You know it’s bad when the Alfa is potentially the less ruinous option!
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