The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 10)

The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 10)

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Discussion

Scrump

Original Poster:

13,119 posts

122 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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Slow

5,838 posts

101 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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By the end of this thread hopefully we win a game with ease!

Gadgetmac

11,012 posts

72 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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In before the fan gets a splattering

unident

3,562 posts

15 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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I can’t quote from the other thread, but the comment about us winning 5-0 and Liverpool losing 7-2 are well wide of the mark.

Both are rogue results in the context of the 10 games surrounding them. Liverpool have resumed normal service amd are winning games again. We have also resumed normal service and are virtually incapable of winning a game. How so many can see the 5-0 win as something to hang onto is beyond me. We got thumped 6-1 a fortnight earlier and so far have picked up 1 point at home in the league this season. One point, that’s relegation form. Is there and end in sight?

ORD

16,326 posts

91 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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I think both sides of the debate are right.

(1) Our form is diabolical and we have been terrible so far this season.
(2) There is reason to expect a substantial improvement.

How long the improvement takes to come is very hard to say. Ole may well not last long enough to see it through, but he has laid some good foundations.

Keyser Soze

21,544 posts

155 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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unident said:
I can’t quote from the other thread, but the comment about us winning 5-0 and Liverpool losing 7-2 are well wide of the mark.

Both are rogue results in the context of the 10 games surrounding them. Liverpool have resumed normal service amd are winning games again. We have also resumed normal service and are virtually incapable of winning a game. How so many can see the 5-0 win as something to hang onto is beyond me. We got thumped 6-1 a fortnight earlier and so far have picked up 1 point at home in the league this season. One point, that’s relegation form. Is there and end in sight?
I don't think there will be such a thing as normal service this season though

That fact we got thumped then battered last year's CL semi finalists, while Liverpool got thumped and then have settled down for a couple of games points towards that

My money is on a properly messed up season hence I don't think we should be pushing the big red button

That's before we even consider that changing manager repeatedly has done nothing for us while the management structure at the club remains

If we had Poch then we wouldn't have fked up the Sancho transfer or got Cavani in?


Gadgetmac

11,012 posts

72 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
There is another way of looking at this seasons league results. It doesn't help though. What we're seeing, without the crowds and thus the home advantage (with all games being effectively played on neutral grounds) is the true strength of the teams/squads and their tactical nous. We are also seeing the refs not under any pressure to give decisions to the home team.

This may be the first season ever that we get a true reflection of where we all stand - and at the moment we appear to stand in st up to our waist.

Just a thought.

ORD

16,326 posts

91 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Gadgetmac said:
There is another way of looking at this seasons league results. It doesn't help though. What we're seeing, without the crowds and thus the home advantage (with all games being effectively played on neutral grounds) is the true strength of the teams/squads and their tactical nous. We are also seeing the refs not under any pressure to give decisions to the home team.

This may be the first season ever that we get a true reflection of where we all stand - and at the moment we appear to stand in st up to our waist.

Just a thought.
In a usual season, being responsive (in a good way) to support or pressure from the crowd is part of being a good player. That element has been taken away. It is likely to have a levelling effect.

unident

3,562 posts

15 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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Keyser Soze said:
I don't think there will be such a thing as normal service this season though

That fact we got thumped then battered last year's CL semi finalists, while Liverpool got thumped and then have settled down for a couple of games points towards that

My money is on a properly messed up season hence I don't think we should be pushing the big red button

That's before we even consider that changing manager repeatedly has done nothing for us while the management structure at the club remains

If we had Poch then we wouldn't have fked up the Sancho transfer or got Cavani in?
The simple answer is I don’t know. Sancho isn’t the answer IMO, but Cavani? Really? He’s just another old player who’s here for a year and a boost to his pension. He certainly isn’t the future of our strike force. Maybe Poch would have had the balls to do with Pogba what Arteta has done with Ozil. What we are is a counterattacking team. Two teams in Europe have suffered from that, one by being extremely naïve. No PL club has fallen for it yet, apart from Newcastle when they fancied going for the win at the end of the game. Every other team has simply organised themselves well enough to negate our approach and we’ve just passed the ball around aimlessly and created very little. There is no Plan B.

I just don’t see how this can carry on. We fluked CL last year, because Leicester pretty much decided not to bother and dropped points like mad. We’re already 10 points off the pace. Look at what we’ve got coming up in the run to Christmas and we could seriously find ourselves in the relegation scrap.

Keyser Soze

21,544 posts

155 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
unident said:
The simple answer is I don’t know. Sancho isn’t the answer IMO, but Cavani? Really? He’s just another old player who’s here for a year and a boost to his pension. He certainly isn’t the future of our strike force. Maybe Poch would have had the balls to do with Pogba what Arteta has done with Ozil. What we are is a counterattacking team. Two teams in Europe have suffered from that, one by being extremely naïve. No PL club has fallen for it yet, apart from Newcastle when they fancied going for the win at the end of the game. Every other team has simply organised themselves well enough to negate our approach and we’ve just passed the ball around aimlessly and created very little. There is no Plan B.

I just don’t see how this can carry on. We fluked CL last year, because Leicester pretty much decided not to bother and dropped points like mad. We’re already 10 points off the pace. Look at what we’ve got coming up in the run to Christmas and we could seriously find ourselves in the relegation scrap.
Sorry I wasn't talking about Cavani signing in a positive way, while I am pleased he is here, he was purely brought in as a body as we seemed to get none of our other targets

I think if we were truly in a relegation scrap at Christmas then action would be taken but there's a good few games between now and then, the point made about the crowds above is a valid one and won't affect just us

If we won our game in hand we would be 2 points behind Chelsea and Arsenal, considering especially what Chelsea spent, why isn't Franks head being called for?

As it stands on the same games we are 4 points behind City

Gadgetmac

11,012 posts

72 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
ORD said:
Gadgetmac said:
There is another way of looking at this seasons league results. It doesn't help though. What we're seeing, without the crowds and thus the home advantage (with all games being effectively played on neutral grounds) is the true strength of the teams/squads and their tactical nous. We are also seeing the refs not under any pressure to give decisions to the home team.

This may be the first season ever that we get a true reflection of where we all stand - and at the moment we appear to stand in st up to our waist.

Just a thought.
In a usual season, being responsive (in a good way) to support or pressure from the crowd is part of being a good player. That element has been taken away. It is likely to have a levelling effect.
There are also more away wins than ever before thus far in the season. It's currently running at 45% whereas it's usually between 26% and 28%.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article...

As I say, this is just a thought as I've been quite taken aback when watching games this season just how much pressure a lot of the home sides have been put under that ordinarily I wouldn't expect to see.



200Plus Club

8,591 posts

242 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
unident said:
The simple answer is I don’t know. Sancho isn’t the answer IMO, but Cavani? Really? He’s just another old player who’s here for a year and a boost to his pension. He certainly isn’t the future of our strike force. Maybe Poch would have had the balls to do with Pogba what Arteta has done with Ozil. What we are is a counterattacking team. Two teams in Europe have suffered from that, one by being extremely naïve. No PL club has fallen for it yet, apart from Newcastle when they fancied going for the win at the end of the game. Every other team has simply organised themselves well enough to negate our approach and we’ve just passed the ball around aimlessly and created very little. There is no Plan B.

I just don’t see how this can carry on. We fluked CL last year, because Leicester pretty much decided not to bother and dropped points like mad. We’re already 10 points off the pace. Look at what we’ve got coming up in the run to Christmas and we could seriously find ourselves in the relegation scrap.
Disagree strongly that we fluked anything and Leicester gave up. We got great form and dismantled teams while keeping a tight ship. Leicester had their chance to beat us to the post and got turned over.
Regardless of this season it's unfair to rubbish what the team achieved after January last year, scoring for fun and playing like the Utd of old.
For whatever reason we started to tail off right at the very end, had a non existent closed season and came back unfit, unprepared and tired looking before the season even got going.

We now also appear to have no formulated plan of style to get out of the slump, but we know they can actually play, it's how to get them consistent and grinding out wins if need be

franki68

8,190 posts

185 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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200Plus Club said:
Disagree strongly that we fluked anything and Leicester gave up. We got great form and dismantled teams while keeping a tight ship. Leicester had their chance to beat us to the post and got turned over.
Regardless of this season it's unfair to rubbish what the team achieved after January last year, scoring for fun and playing like the Utd of old.
For whatever reason we started to tail off right at the very end, had a non existent closed season and came back unfit, unprepared and tired looking before the season even got going.
We played very well against a few teams in that run in but that faded and we were scraping victories in quite a few of those games.And chelsea and leicester both messed up badly.I think 3rd was very flattering and fortunate .


unident

3,562 posts

15 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Keyser Soze said:
Sorry I wasn't talking about Cavani signing in a positive way, while I am pleased he is here, he was purely brought in as a body as we seemed to get none of our other targets

I think if we were truly in a relegation scrap at Christmas then action would be taken but there's a good few games between now and then, the point made about the crowds above is a valid one and won't affect just us

If we won our game in hand we would be 2 points behind Chelsea and Arsenal, considering especially what Chelsea spent, why isn't Franks head being called for?

As it stands on the same games we are 4 points behind City
There’s a lot of ifs and maths in there. If we lose our game in hand then what? Lampard won’t survive this season if they don’t win something given their outlay. That’s not what I’m concerned about though, I’m concerned about where United are heading and it doesn’t look good from where I’m sitting. There are 9 league games remaining this calendar year
Everton A
West Brom H
Southampton A
West Ham A
City H
Sheff Utd A
Leeds H
Leicester A
Wolves H

How many points do you see us getting there? I don’t see double figures.

200Plus Club said:
Disagree strongly that we fluked anything and Leicester gave up. We got great form and dismantled teams while keeping a tight ship. Leicester had their chance to beat us to the post and got turned over.
Regardless of this season it's unfair to rubbish what the team achieved after January last year, scoring for fun and playing like the Utd of old.
For whatever reason we started to tail off right at the very end, had a non existent closed season and came back unfit, unprepared and tired looking before the season even got going.
Ok, we got what we got last season, we were dead on our feet at the end of it. Your last bit about preparation for this season sits squarely with the manager. Other teams had the same challenge, but aren’t languishing in 15th place with or without a game in hand.

Keyser Soze

21,544 posts

155 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
unident said:
There’s a lot of ifs and maths in there. If we lose our game in hand then what? Lampard won’t survive this season if they don’t win something given their outlay. That’s not what I’m concerned about though, I’m concerned about where United are heading and it doesn’t look good from where I’m sitting. There are 9 league games remaining this calendar year
Everton A
West Brom H
Southampton A
West Ham A
City H
Sheff Utd A
Leeds H
Leicester A
Wolves H

How many points do you see us getting there? I don’t see double figures.
Well the only IF in what I said regards the game in hand we are still 4 points off City on the same games

Southampton are 4th, do you think that they are genuine contenders? Or will the league maybe level out over the course of the season

We had all this last season, a couple of games lost and people want Ole's head, yet we are back in the CL, performing well

If we are truly in trouble at Christmas then questions have to be asked and a decision made

I'm sad that you think we wont get 10 points from a potential 27, although you seem to be relying on IF's for that prediction, IF our form doesn't get better, IF Ole persists with trying a diamond etc

unident

3,562 posts

15 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Keyser Soze said:
Well the only IF in what I said regards the game in hand we are still 4 points off City on the same games

Southampton are 4th, do you think that they are genuine contenders? Or will the league maybe level out over the course of the season

We had all this last season, a couple of games lost and people want Ole's head, yet we are back in the CL, performing well

If we are truly in trouble at Christmas then questions have to be asked and a decision made

I'm sad that you think we wont get 10 points from a potential 27, although you seem to be relying on IF's for that prediction, IF our form doesn't get better, IF Ole persists with trying a diamond etc
There are teams in that run who will beat us without doubt , there are others who will be up for it more than they are for any normal match, others who see us as a relegation rival, and then those who are performing well at the moment and have high confidence. I’m frustrated because we continue to show no style, no substance and no passion. I still don’t know what our playing style is supposed to be and I don’t think there’s a clear vision for the players to work towards. I want us to succeed, although I think the Glazers will see us in tatters before then, as they rape the club further despite the lack of income due to Covid.

I really hope I’m wrong.

selym

8,731 posts

135 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
ORD said:
Gadgetmac said:
There is another way of looking at this seasons league results. It doesn't help though. What we're seeing, without the crowds and thus the home advantage (with all games being effectively played on neutral grounds) is the true strength of the teams/squads and their tactical nous. We are also seeing the refs not under any pressure to give decisions to the home team.

This may be the first season ever that we get a true reflection of where we all stand - and at the moment we appear to stand in st up to our waist.

Just a thought.
In a usual season, being responsive (in a good way) to support or pressure from the crowd is part of being a good player. That element has been taken away. It is likely to have a levelling effect.
Never underestimate the power of the twelfth man - it's not the stadium that intimidates, it's the noise in it.

200Plus Club

8,591 posts

242 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Very true, nothing finer than the crowd urging them onto a last gasp winner. Huge loss to the game and to teams

RoadRunner220

810 posts

157 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
quotequote all
Slow said:
By the end of this thread hopefully we win a game with ease!
Lets not get too carried away

GloverMart

10,181 posts

179 months

Monday 2nd November 2020
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Leading on from the discussion on Cavani from the previous thread....

Standing by for a flaming here but think you'd have genuinely been better getting Jamie Vardy. Same age, knows the Premier League, knows where the goal is, no settling in period needed. He's playing as well as he ever has, you'd look bloody good going forward, a lot more energy and pzazz than at present and he's also got that little edge you need to succeed.

Oh, and I'd bin Pogba and pay Villa whatever they wanted for Jack Grealish.