Anyone dealt with cowboy third party warranty companies ?

[Gdgd]

Hi all,

I'll try to keep this to the point. I bought a 2009 R8 with 26k miles in December, lovely car and all seemed fine. The owner transferred the third party warranty into my name and I paid them the £35 fee they wanted.

Last weekend the car starting groaning and making horrible metal on metal noises from the front, I immediately got the car to my local specialist who confirmed the front diff is miles from death.

He submitted the claim to the warranty company and within an hour they came back refusing the claim based on 'wear and tear' and said that because its only making noise and not actually completely failed (yet) they wont cover it. They also said that if it subsequently fails soon they won't cover it either as clearly driving it in its current form is negligent.

The garage have outright told me not to drive the car as that front diff could lock up without a moment notice and driving to failure would be extremely dangerous.

Can I legally challenge the warranty company or do I just move on?

Thanks

[speedyman]

Of course it's failed, the noise is not normal and the diff needs repairing. Sounds like there trying it on. What does the warranty document say?

[Gdgd]

Warranty document does explicitly say differentials are covered.

I'l call them first thing tomorrow as I haven't actually spoken to them, they've dealt directly with the garage up to this point but I suspect they'll just tell me the same thing.

[normalbloke]

Good luck, they’re all Teflon shouldered shisters.

[No ideas for a name]

Is it the same company that tell BMW owners to drive home from France with an engine problem?

[anonymous-user]

These days any form of vehicle warranty doesn't seem worth it. Even dealer 'Approved Used'.

[KTMsm]

Yes

A friend does lots of warranty work on gearboxes

He says they exclude wear and then when something breaks they say that's because of wear to another item

When he finally came across some parts that had independently broken, he kept them and used them for all the warranty claims on that type of gearbox

He says that generally the warranty is irrelevant, it's who sold it that counts - individual or small dealer, it'll be rejected. The only warranty worth having is from a large dealer as they don't want to lose that account.

[Gdgd]

Thank you all for the replies. If I ever make any meaningful progress on this I'll share in this thread.

[Turn7]

Standard INsurance company behaviour - over promise and under deliver, every single time.

[Sheepshanks]

No ideas for a name said:

Is it the same company that tell BMW owners to drive home from France with an engine problem?

They've stopped offering warranties now. They did used to cover wear and tear though.

[Durzel]

Gdgd said:

Warranty document does explicitly say differentials are covered.

I'l call them first thing tomorrow as I haven't actually spoken to them, they've dealt directly with the garage up to this point but I suspect they'll just tell me the same thing.

I’d be looking to take them to small claims court, based on what you’ve said, if they ultimately fail to pay for it. You’d probably have to pay for the repairs and then try and claim it back (+ interest)

If you spoke to Audi they’d probably tell you it’s a “lifetime” part that does not fail or require scheduled maintenance in normal operation. I’d probably speak to Audi and ask them what the projected lifetime mileage is for a part like that, I bet it’s more than 26k miles.

I’d put it to the warranty company that them claiming it is “wear and tear”, not a failure, and also stating that if you drive it any further and it fails it won’t be covered due to negligence ultimately means that in any practical sense that the part is not covered at all.

I’m not a mechanic but I don’t think diffs fail abruptly, there is usually warning signs like those you have experienced. A mechanic would argue at the point those sounds are heard that the part “has failed”. Certainly misting shocks have failed - even if they haven’t completely collapsed.

Edited by Durzel on Thursday 4th March 02:52

[Drawweight]

That would surely mean that you are literally not covered for anything on the engine/gearbox/drivetrain unless it breaks and you are stranded at the side of the road.

[Sheepshanks]

Durzel said:

I’d be looking to take them to small claims court, based on what you’ve said, if they ultimately fail to pay for it. You’d probably have to pay for the repairs and then try and claim it back (+ interest)

I don't know if you have to do this, but I think the drill it to go through their complaints process first.

Durzel said:

Certainly misting shocks have failed - even if they haven’t completely collapsed.

VW put a bulletin out telling dealers not to change misting shocks under the new vehicle warranty as it was 'normal'.

[Sheepshanks]

Drawweight said:

That would surely mean that you are literally not covered for anything on the engine/gearbox/drivetrain unless it breaks and you are stranded at the side of the road.

That's pretty well it - it's an insurance policy and something needs to break for the claim to be valid.

[Pegscratch]

Sheepshanks said:

That's pretty well it - it's an insurance policy and something needs to break for the claim to be valid.

This 100%. (Good) Mechanics will tell you that diff is broken. An accountant then gets hold of the problem and says "it still works until it doesn't". Then legal get involved and if you know it's going to break then it's negligent to use it, and you broke it through negligence.

The end result is you've handed over a fistful of cash to someone that may pay if they got their dipstick wet that morning. Hate mechanical insurance "warranties" with a passion. Chronically missold.

[RazerSauber]

I work in a warranty style role and would advise you log a complaint with the company first. This will either be a miracle and they'll reconsider or they'll tell you the rejection stands and you have the right to ask FOS. Go to FOS (Which costs them £650 if memory serves, regardless if they win or lose) and they'll look into it for you. I would ask Audi if that part can suffer from wear and tear and if you choose to get the diff replaced yourself, take as many photos of the part and surrounding parts as you can.

Wear and tear is an awful exclusion. A part that is brand new has wear and tear the second it's bolted to your car and it's moved an inch. That's a "get out" clause to me and sounds like they're trying to get you to deflect that to FOS and hope they rule in their favour.

[Durzel]

Sheepshanks said:

Durzel said:

I’d be looking to take them to small claims court, based on what you’ve said, if they ultimately fail to pay for it. You’d probably have to pay for the repairs and then try and claim it back (+ interest)

I don't know if you have to do this, but I think the drill it to go through their complaints process first.

Yeah, of course.. you'd want to exhaust the complaints process first, and then do the whole letter before action, etc. Because of the sums of money we'd be talking about here (I suspect an R8 diff is several thousand) even if you could get a goodwill contribution through mediation it would be worth it, I think.

EDIT: FOS after complaints then, as above.

[Durzel]

RazerSauber said:

I work in a warranty style role and would advise you log a complaint with the company first. This will either be a miracle and they'll reconsider or they'll tell you the rejection stands and you have the right to ask FOS. Go to FOS (Which costs them £650 if memory serves, regardless if they win or lose) and they'll look into it for you. I would ask Audi if that part can suffer from wear and tear and if you choose to get the diff replaced yourself, take as many photos of the part and surrounding parts as you can.

Wear and tear is an awful exclusion. A part that is brand new has wear and tear the second it's bolted to your car and it's moved an inch. That's a "get out" clause to me and sounds like they're trying to get you to deflect that to FOS and hope they rule in their favour.

Audi would - I'm sure - say that it's a "lifetime part" that is not expected to fail. I would be very surprised if Audi do any fluid changes on the diffs during scheduled maintenance. I'm not even sure they change the transmission fluid, just check for leaks. That says to me that under normal operation they are not expected to fail in a reasonable lifetime, certainly not 26k miles.

Diffs whining herald an impending failure.. could take days, weeks or months to actually fail catastrophically depending on how far and hard it is driven.

I would assume a failing diff would get progressively louder and rougher to the point of being unbearable to drive. Even that that point, using this warranty company definition, it "hasn't failed" as the car can still move.

I agree with you about the "wear and tear" thing, it's an intentionally broad caveat that only serves to enable the warranty company to disclaim liability.

[Zumbruk]

IME, they all wear spurs and smell of horse poo.

[Pegscratch]

Durzel said:

I would be very surprised if Audi do any fluid changes on the diffs during scheduled maintenance.

Every two years on most of their Quattro vehicles.