I've just bought some poverty Pork…
Discussion
2Btoo said:
Speedgelb, that looks like a good project. What's the details on the parts? I'm about to bolt some shiny new suspension arms from Spyder Porsche onto my 987 Cayman.
Just a general refresh after 130k odd miles:Koni Special Active dampers
H&R -10mm M030 equivalent springs
Inner / outer front TREs
Spyder coffin arms x 4
Engine mount bush
Up until the refresh, the car was on its original components, with the exception of front top mounts / bearings, rear diagonal (tuning fork) arms, and 4 x droplinks, which were done in 2019 at circa 120k.
Had concerns around which arms to go with, as the aftermarket opsions seem to be of varying quality. That and the orignals lasted 130k+. The chap I used to do the work was very happy with the Spyder arms.
Speedgelb said:
Either that, or everybody really misses cmoose.
This.In all seriousness, some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
snotrag said:
Driven it much? Thats similar to the work I did on mine, with the older gold coloured FSDs - the Red Special Actives are the replacements with the same platform/speed sensitive damping.
Am unsure whether there are any real differences between FSDs and Special Actives, IE whether they're just a rebrand, or there are some incremental improvements. There's universal praise from folks who have them, and they worked out cheaper than B4s, so was a no-brainer.snotrag said:
Pretty bloody good eh!?
delays said:
some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Haven't driven it as much as I'd like to since the refresh - have been trying to get to the bottom of a coolant issue that a specialist failed to diagnose / resolve. Have figured out the issue, which has been (hopefully!) resolved with £5 worth of parts from OPC - just need to cover more miles to be sure.Certainly feels much tighter than before, but also a more edgy - in the sense you can feel the car moving about under you, in higher speed corners under throttle, something which never happened before. In a funny way, am having to be more cautious now, whereas before, I felt more confident.
Ollie assures me he's set the car up to be neutral (assume similar geo to what he did in 2019) - perhaps the driver just needs to recalibrate.
delays said:
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
There's always something that needs attending to on these cars, no matter how minor. Keeps things interesting (and at times, frustrating)...I’ll sort it next year.
delays said:
This.
In all seriousness, some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
Inner tie rods rattle on these and tend to go around 100k. In all seriousness, some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
Many miss these, but if doing all the arms definitely do the inner and outer tie rods. TRW at ECP are around £140 for them all and can really tighten things up.
Speedgelb said:
Certainly feels much tighter than before, but also a more edgy - in the sense you can feel the car moving about under you, in higher speed corners under throttle, something which never happened before. In a funny way, am having to be more cautious now, whereas before, I felt more confident.
I wrote about this on Boxa and probably here too. You have to recalibrate a little bit as the car gives you more feedback. It's like HD vs non-HD. It kind of looks the sam but there's more detail and nuance. The ultimate grip is there it's just the car is telling you more what's going on. gizlaroc said:
Inner tie rods rattle on these and tend to go around 100k.
Many miss these, but if doing all the arms definitely do the inner and outer tie rods. TRW at ECP are around £140 for them all and can really tighten things up.
Thanks for this. It’s one part I hadn’t considered on my long list of suspects (shout out to top mounts here, too).Many miss these, but if doing all the arms definitely do the inner and outer tie rods. TRW at ECP are around £140 for them all and can really tighten things up.
I have had all 4 coffins replaced this year and the two front diagonals, but the rattle persists (especially over something like a cobble road or a broken surface with shallow but repetitive bumps).
I’ve been chatting to Speedgelb about taking the plunge and changing springs and dampers at the same time but I’m at a loss to what I would choose. Brief is to tighten it up and replace 22yo stock parts, but I want the car to feel “better” rather than just “stiffer”. If that makes sense.
gizlaroc said:
delays said:
This.
In all seriousness, some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
Inner tie rods rattle on these and tend to go around 100k. In all seriousness, some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
Many miss these, but if doing all the arms definitely do the inner and outer tie rods. TRW at ECP are around £140 for them all and can really tighten things up.
They make them for Porsche. Buy via app for best discounts and watch it for a few days as discounts get as high as 40%. Some great prices on TRW and Meyle. Can take 10 days to arrive though.
Edited by Andyoz on Saturday 12th June 09:38
Andyoz said:
Also look at Autodoc in Germany for those. I managed to get all four parts for under £90 incl. Vat (for a 987)....prices below are for TWO of each item
They make them for Porsche. Buy via app for best discounts and watch it for a few days as discounts get as high as 40%. Some great prices on TRW and Meyle. Can take 10 days to arrive though.
Cool, never sure what sort of discount people get at ECP as I have a trade account. They make them for Porsche. Buy via app for best discounts and watch it for a few days as discounts get as high as 40%. Some great prices on TRW and Meyle. Can take 10 days to arrive though.
But that is a similar price once a coupon has been added in.
I paid £102 all in from them.
Just be aware, changing the inner tie rods is a bit of a pain. If you have a tool for doing it great, if not, make sure you have a big spanner and you can get it in there too, it is tight,
I have just done control arms, coffin arms, inner and outer tie rods, drop links, roll bar bushes, bump stops, bearings, top mounts, dampers and on the rear done the bump stops, top mounts, drop links and dampers.
I went with Bilstein B4 (M030 version as that is what my C4 had already) and it feels great.
I do need to get the Geo finished as still a bit too much negative camber on the rear and they could not get the concentric bolt undone on it.
So will have to get it up on the ramp Monday and try and do that myself.
I originally ordered the B6 dampers, but then read someone fitted the B4 M030 dampers, was impressed but thought he should have gone B6, so swapped them out shortly after. But actually found them too firm. Said it lost out on the road. So I cancelled the B6 and ordered the B4 instead.
The reality is the B4 and B6 should be the same, the B6 just slightly better as a twin tube. But I went B4 and it feels great, it feels like the factory set up just not quite as crashy over poorer surfaces and when nipping round town. But when pressing on just as flat and planted.
Pretty much what I wanted.
My front dampers were quite worm, but not terrible, the rears to be fair were OK, I think they have been replaced at some point already.
But when doing all that work I wanted to do it once.
I paid £700 roughly for all 4 dampers from design911.co.uk.
I went with Bilstein B4 (M030 version as that is what my C4 had already) and it feels great.
I do need to get the Geo finished as still a bit too much negative camber on the rear and they could not get the concentric bolt undone on it.
So will have to get it up on the ramp Monday and try and do that myself.
I originally ordered the B6 dampers, but then read someone fitted the B4 M030 dampers, was impressed but thought he should have gone B6, so swapped them out shortly after. But actually found them too firm. Said it lost out on the road. So I cancelled the B6 and ordered the B4 instead.
The reality is the B4 and B6 should be the same, the B6 just slightly better as a twin tube. But I went B4 and it feels great, it feels like the factory set up just not quite as crashy over poorer surfaces and when nipping round town. But when pressing on just as flat and planted.
Pretty much what I wanted.
My front dampers were quite worm, but not terrible, the rears to be fair were OK, I think they have been replaced at some point already.
But when doing all that work I wanted to do it once.
I paid £700 roughly for all 4 dampers from design911.co.uk.
Andyoz said:
Also look at Autodoc in Germany for those. I managed to get all four parts for under £90 incl. Vat (for a 987)....prices below are for TWO of each item
They make them for Porsche. Buy via app for best discounts and watch it for a few days as discounts get as high as 40%. Some great prices on TRW and Meyle. Can take 10 days to arrive though.
Have you tried ordering from AutoDoc since Brexit? I've heard of problems with car parts ordered from abroad getting into the UK. They make them for Porsche. Buy via app for best discounts and watch it for a few days as discounts get as high as 40%. Some great prices on TRW and Meyle. Can take 10 days to arrive though.
Edited by Andyoz on Saturday 12th June 09:38
I used to have very good experiences with Spareto in Estonia (https://spareto.co.uk/) but haven't dared try from them recently for fear that the parts would be hit by some stupid import tax, wiping out any saving.
2Btoo said:
Bilstein stuff rocks. And rocks hard. It's excellent and I've used it on several cars.
FWIW I put B6's on my 944 and they were utterly fine for day-to-day use, but such experiences don't always transfer well from model to model.
Yeah, I always go back to Bilstein. FWIW I put B6's on my 944 and they were utterly fine for day-to-day use, but such experiences don't always transfer well from model to model.
I'm sure the B6 would have been fine too.
Just it was interesting that someone put the mono tube B4 on, liked them so much that he then put the B6 on which should have been an upgrade and actually preferred the B4 on 90% of roads.
There was not enough in it to swap back again, more a case of he paid £800 or so for the B4, then spent £1200 on the B6 (or whatever it was) and said that if doing it again he would have stuck with the B4s knowing what he now knows.
Bilstein said that the B4 M030 has around a 15% higher damping rate than the Porsche M030 (also made by Bilstein for Porsche) and the B6 is around 10% higher than the B4.
I would say that the main difference between the oem and the B4 was it feels more compliant at slower speeds.
That was always a bit of an issue for me with the OEM set up and why I put new dampers on, great when pressing on, but at slower speeds it felt a bit busy all the time. That has now totally gone, it soaks up poorer surfaces at lower speeds so, so much better.
I would love to try the B6 at some point, but reality is this has taken me weeks to get to where I am am now and still need to get the geo done properly. So won't be swapping.
delays said:
This.
In all seriousness, some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes. In all seriousness, some far-reaching work on your car there. Interested in your thoughts on how it drives.
Personally I went on a crusade on 996 to rid it of rattles, changing diagonals and coffins, but I suspect the rattles might be drop links or even an ARB rattling on worn bushes.
I’ll sort it next year.
--
If you're getting some rear rattle, when heard at low speed (typically on the downramp of a multi story carpark) and it sounds like some old bolts in a cardboard box, tends to be the rear ARB bushes. Very easy to change.. do note that if you've got sports / MO30 suspension - the correct ARB bush has slightly bigger diameter than standard..
edc said:
It's like HD vs non-HD. It kind of looks the sam but there's more detail and nuance. The ultimate grip is there it's just the car is telling you more what's going on.
Like that analogy - feels very relatable.gizlaroc said:
Inner tie rods rattle on these and tend to go around 100k.
I had (still have) an intermittent minor rattle at the front on uneven roads. During the most recent suspension overhaul, I renewed the inner and outer TREs (just under £90 for TRW from Autodoc pre-Brexit), confident these would be the culprit. I elected not to replace the (original 20 year / 130k mile old) front tuning forks. Rattle still exists. In the case of my car, I'd hazard tuning forks. The car had a rattle at the rear when I acquired it three years ago. A rear droplink was an advisory on a previous MOT, and was spotted on an inspection, and was blamed for this. Droplink replaced, rattle persisted. Heatshield above exhaust found loose. Rectified. Rattle still persisted. Rear tuning forks replaced - rattle solved.
TLDR: would suggest delays changes front inner / outer TREs AND tuning forks (if these have not been done).
With the exception of the front tuning forks / rear toe arms, everything's been changed on my 986, despite perhaps not strictly being necessary. The thing with tuning forks is it's the ball joint that rattles, and this is impossible to diagnose in situ (unless you're a specialist with a very good ear). There's also a ball joint in the front TREs which makes diagnosing things a bit like Russian roulette. You may as well replace all these if rattles are annoying you.
Am not sure of the implications from a feel / tightness or safety perspective. The only advisory the car's had in 130k miles was a rear droplink a few years ago (all four replaced around 118k), and until recently, ALL suspension arms / mounts were the factory items.
gizlaroc said:
I went with Bilstein B4 (M030 version as that is what my C4 had already) and it feels great.
...
Bilstein said that the B4 M030 has around a 15% higher damping rate than the Porsche M030 (also made by Bilstein for Porsche) and the B6 is around 10% higher than the B4.
Curiously, Bilstein only offer a single B4 variant for the 986, with no distinction between sport (M030) and standard....
Bilstein said that the B4 M030 has around a 15% higher damping rate than the Porsche M030 (also made by Bilstein for Porsche) and the B6 is around 10% higher than the B4.
986: http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?34=0,100...
Yet, for the 996 they have two distinct variants.
996: http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default.aspx?34=0,100...
Wonder why.
2Btoo said:
Andyoz said:
Also look at Autodoc in Germany for those. I managed to get all four parts for under £90 incl. Vat (for a 987)....prices below are for TWO of each item
They make them for Porsche. Buy via app for best discounts and watch it for a few days as discounts get as high as 40%. Some great prices on TRW and Meyle. Can take 10 days to arrive though.
Have you tried ordering from AutoDoc since Brexit? I've heard of problems with car parts ordered from abroad getting into the UK. They make them for Porsche. Buy via app for best discounts and watch it for a few days as discounts get as high as 40%. Some great prices on TRW and Meyle. Can take 10 days to arrive though.
Edited by Andyoz on Saturday 12th June 09:38
I used to have very good experiences with Spareto in Estonia (https://spareto.co.uk/) but haven't dared try from them recently for fear that the parts would be hit by some stupid import tax, wiping out any saving.
Speedgelb said:
I had (still have) an intermittent minor rattle at the front on uneven roads. During the most recent suspension overhaul, I renewed the inner and outer TREs (just under £90 for TRW from Autodoc pre-Brexit), confident these would be the culprit. I elected not to replace the (original 20 year / 130k mile old) front tuning forks. Rattle still exists. In the case of my car, I'd hazard tuning forks.
Curiously, Bilstein only offer a single B4 variant for the 986, with no distinction between sport (M030) and standard.
Coffin arms I would replace regardless, they go pretty quickly. Curiously, Bilstein only offer a single B4 variant for the 986, with no distinction between sport (M030) and standard.
If still a rattle and struggling to find it, inner tie roads get ignored.
I have a 996, so can't answer that.
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