Why are 964 pedals offset to the left?

Why are 964 pedals offset to the left?

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Discussion

mollytherocker

14,348 posts

176 months

Sunday 9th September 2012
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pistonheed said:
Unbelievable that manufactures like BMW and Audi have offset pedals to the right!
The 944 & 968 do too!

MTR

stuttgartmetal

8,045 posts

183 months

Sunday 9th September 2012
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LHD as Butzi designed them are claimed to be more comfortable.
I find the lack of clear vision of a left hooker on UK roads more of a problem than the offset pedals.

DiscoColin

3,328 posts

181 months

Sunday 9th September 2012
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turk1 said:
I have never noticed this in my 996,It dont feel any different than my vw golf.
On the 996/997 they aren't really offset much, it is more that they are a bit central and might feel offset as a lot of cars (as was noted by someone above) are actually slightly offset to the right (which may even apply to LHD 996/997 models, but I haven't driven one in LHD so am not sure). The 964 (and 993) are by comparison hugely offset in RHD - the brake being roughly where you would normally find a clutch. The footwell is also shallower than on the left hand side by a few inches and this also makes a big difference to the LHD vs RHD ergonomics if you are taller than average.

The reason is simply that the car was engineered specifically around being LHD and is significantly asymmetric. RHD was bodged in as an afterthought. The 996 was a complete redesign rather than an evolution of the older 911 architecture, and of course by then the sales volumes of the big RHD markets like the UK and Japan resulted in a bit more attention being paid to the RHD installation. That said, even the 997 is an LHD optimised asymmetric design (so for example the 90 litre tank available on the GT models only fits in the LHD) - but not to anything like the degree of the air cooled days.

barchetta_boy

2,020 posts

199 months

Sunday 9th September 2012
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911god said:
Question is what will you replace it with or will a RHD model make your situation better?
I think the primary problem is the narrowness of the sports seat. The pedal location probably doesn't help though.

If I did sell it, I would either get a GT3, something completely different like an XKR or take a break from cars for a while.

Joel

barchetta_boy

2,020 posts

199 months

Sunday 9th September 2012
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stuttgartmetal said:
LHD as Butzi designed them are claimed to be more comfortable.
I find the lack of clear vision of a left hooker on UK roads more of a problem than the offset pedals.
Funnily enough I don't find this a problem at all. Car park barriers, that's another story...

911god

2,961 posts

152 months

Sunday 9th September 2012
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barchetta_boy said:
Funnily enough I don't find this a problem at all. Car park barriers, that's another story...
If u decide to sell your car will go quickly I recon Adrian Crawford had a red one for sale for 33k euros

Edited by 911god on Sunday 9th September 17:56

Pesty

42,655 posts

223 months

Sunday 9th September 2012
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Was a bit odd for the first few weeks.

Don't even notice now.

barchetta_boy

2,020 posts

199 months

Monday 10th September 2012
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Having spent Saturday drifting it round the low friction course at the Porsche Driving Experience at Silverstone, I really don't want to sell it! Mine is a C2 manual with factory mechanical limited slip diff (40% lock): option 220. Quite rare to see it specced on a 911 and 964 C2s are not exactly common to start with.

Can recommend the YouDrive package, I had a great afternoon. Even managed to win the reaction time competition so ended the day with a mental session in a 997 Turbo S PDK with the instructor giving it silly amounts of beans, most of course done sideways at 80+mph

Great fun

Joel

fioran0

2,410 posts

139 months

Monday 10th September 2012
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DiscoColin said:
That said, even the 997 is an LHD optimised asymmetric design (so for example the 90 litre tank available on the GT models only fits in the LHD) - but not to anything like the degree of the air cooled days.
The 90 litre fuel tank only fits LHD cars because Porsche only make a LHD tank (all factory race cars are LHD and that's what it was made for).
The steering column fouls the tank if you were to try and install into rhd.
If Porsche bothered to make a rhd tank (just a mirror image) if would fit no problem in rhd cars and foul the steering column if you tried to fit into LHD.
In the tank case, the tank cannot be symmetrical due to the column not because of the car shape.

Edited by fioran0 on Monday 10th September 15:39

SalesManager

2,248 posts

207 months

Monday 10th September 2012
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NinjaPower said:
911god said:
The offset pedals are all part of the enjoyment. It's what makes them what they are
I beg to differ I'm afraid.

I don't find it enjoyable!

I would describe myself as a fairly fit 32 year old, yet a longer drive (1-2 hours) in my 993 gives me a pain in my knee and back which doesn't happen to me under any other situation! It is really quite uncomfortable, and I have tried adjusting the seating a number of times but it doesn't help.

It is a factor in me wanting to sell it unfortunately.
No issue for me and I have the weird clutch lever thingy going on. Just took a week to get used to it. The car is a blast to drive. I would say don't sit at an angle on the seat, try to sit square on the seat if you can.

911god

2,961 posts

152 months

Monday 10th September 2012
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NinjaPower said:
I beg to differ I'm afraid.

I don't find it enjoyable!

I would describe myself as a fairly fit 32 year old, yet a longer drive (1-2 hours) in my 993 gives me a pain in my knee and back which doesn't happen to me under any other situation! It is really quite uncomfortable, and I have tried adjusting the seating a number of times but it doesn't help.

It is a factor in me wanting to sell it unfortunately.
Ah, sadly for you you bought the wrong car then.
I find both of mine fine and I'm north if 40. Still, your 993 should sell easily enuff

fioran0

2,410 posts

139 months

Tuesday 11th September 2012
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I just took pics of both footwells in my cup.
I'll post up when I get onto a computer so you can see just how offset rhd pedals actually are.

DiscoColin

3,328 posts

181 months

Tuesday 11th September 2012
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NinjaPower said:
I can't win!
...Unless you swap it for an LHD one...

fioran0

2,410 posts

139 months

Tuesday 11th September 2012
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heres a couple of quick snaps from the footwells of my cup. with no carpet its easy to see whats going on with pedal spacing/offset.
the wood in the picture is lying directly on the front/rear center line of the right hand side seat rail bolts in each picture. it looks a bit squint due to lens effect and angle but i assure you its straight.
this is roughly where your right leg would fall if stuck straight out while seated. the weird shaped bracket/plate on the footwell wall is the mounting for the road car accelerator pedal.

on the left footwell you can see that by fitting it up against the central tunnel they have it quite close to where your leg would naturally be, with the other pedals spaced off left.
on the right footwell you can see that the wheel arch prevents it being located where it should go and as a result and everything is shifted left by quite a margin. its probably not clear but the available space for the 4 pedals (accel,brake,clutch,dead) is 3 inches narrower too on the right hand side.

its the same fundamentals at play on all 911s.
fwiw my dad has a rhd 996 and it gives me a sore knee driving it for any length of time. no such problem in the lhd versions which i drive all the time.



mollytherocker

14,348 posts

176 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
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Wow, that looks like about a 7 inch difference?

Mtr

fioran0

2,410 posts

139 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
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the photos are exaggerating it a little but its definately a decent distance over thats for sure. surprising when you see the cars totally bare huh.


Edited by fioran0 on Wednesday 12th September 00:18

stuttgartmetal

8,045 posts

183 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
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Porsche geekery at its f cking finest.
Pictures of footwells no less.
Brilliant.

fioran0

2,410 posts

139 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
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hahahaha. i full on busted out laughing when i read that post.
im so proud right now wink

Porkupine

Original Poster:

1,642 posts

132 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
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stuttgartmetal said:
Porsche geekery at its f cking finest.
Pictures of footwells no less.
Brilliant.
Great pictures - thanks, and this illustrates it perfectly. When I drove one I thought it was just a Porsche nuance to get used to (as 911god alludes to). However, seeing the LHD set-up it is apparent that for the RHD is somewhat of a bodge up - and a bit ridiculous! So much so, I am reconsidering the 964 purchase - as I am sure it will sacrifice some of the enjoyment having to sit and such an obtuse angle all the time! Will be out to test a couple more and see if I can get used to it and live with it...


shoestring7

5,954 posts

213 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
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stuttgartmetal said:
LHD as Butzi designed them are claimed to be more comfortable.
I find the lack of clear vision of a left hooker on UK roads more of a problem than the offset pedals.
Pre-996 911s small pillar and good glass area more than compensate. The only area I find problematic is in towns when a bus stops close in front.

SS7