993RS for £65k at OPC
Discussion
Time for my 2 pence worth.
I have scanned the comparisons between this and a GT3 in this thread and unsurprisingly I would be very happy with both and yet despite both being superb track focused cars I could see them fulfilling two very different roles
The 993 to my mind is now heading in the realms of guaranteed (if not already) future 'Uber Classic' and coveted by a generation of Porschisti, something to be cherished and something of utmost and undeniable provenance.
Would though you be really happy about banging a box fresh RHD 993 RS round ‘The Ring’? In many cases I would suspect not as these cars have perhaps started to elevate themselves beyond such tasks. If you want a 993 RS to bash about doing track days, surely you’d be better off with a top spec. LHD car fro £20k less, having all the fun without the worry that you are somehow committing a sacrilegious act?
In summary a car like this is one of the most desirable future classics you could buy and is akin to putting your money in a high interest bank account on wheels. Personally I wouldn’t so much as blink if I was to write a cheque out to buy that car for £65k as it would be little different and arguably a safer bet than putting the same amount of money in a pension fund.
With a 996 GT3 I can’t see the same happening despite the fact you’d be parting company with the same sort of wedge. I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at the thought of tearing one of these up on a track day, primarily of course because it will continue to shed value and was built in far greater numbers so you might as well get your moneys worth out of the depreciation. This makes it a very different proposition to my mind regardless of the shared parentage.
If only I had flogged my C2S I would hop down to Bristol and do the deal for it, bloody fantastic and what a car to own. This is the sort of thing that makes clients worth putting up with!
PS I just know one of you sods will beat me to it! The very best of British and may the best man win!
I have scanned the comparisons between this and a GT3 in this thread and unsurprisingly I would be very happy with both and yet despite both being superb track focused cars I could see them fulfilling two very different roles
The 993 to my mind is now heading in the realms of guaranteed (if not already) future 'Uber Classic' and coveted by a generation of Porschisti, something to be cherished and something of utmost and undeniable provenance.
Would though you be really happy about banging a box fresh RHD 993 RS round ‘The Ring’? In many cases I would suspect not as these cars have perhaps started to elevate themselves beyond such tasks. If you want a 993 RS to bash about doing track days, surely you’d be better off with a top spec. LHD car fro £20k less, having all the fun without the worry that you are somehow committing a sacrilegious act?
In summary a car like this is one of the most desirable future classics you could buy and is akin to putting your money in a high interest bank account on wheels. Personally I wouldn’t so much as blink if I was to write a cheque out to buy that car for £65k as it would be little different and arguably a safer bet than putting the same amount of money in a pension fund.
With a 996 GT3 I can’t see the same happening despite the fact you’d be parting company with the same sort of wedge. I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at the thought of tearing one of these up on a track day, primarily of course because it will continue to shed value and was built in far greater numbers so you might as well get your moneys worth out of the depreciation. This makes it a very different proposition to my mind regardless of the shared parentage.
If only I had flogged my C2S I would hop down to Bristol and do the deal for it, bloody fantastic and what a car to own. This is the sort of thing that makes clients worth putting up with!
PS I just know one of you sods will beat me to it! The very best of British and may the best man win!
Have put 25,000 miles on 993 RS CS and 50,000 on various 996 GT3 CSs, RS, etc.
As noted above, the engine in the later cars, esp. Mk II, is vastly superior to that in the 993.
You get more feedback, and higher quality feedback, in the 993 (at least in the CS).
We all know the difference in build quality.
Biggest advantage of 993 is weight difference. That affects everything.
At the 'ring I'd guess there is a 20 second difference in laptime. If you stripped out a Mk II to the same extent as a 993 RS CS, the difference would be at least 30 seconds, and some of the tactile superiority of the 993 would be clawed back.
Horses for courses.
As noted above, the engine in the later cars, esp. Mk II, is vastly superior to that in the 993.
You get more feedback, and higher quality feedback, in the 993 (at least in the CS).
We all know the difference in build quality.
Biggest advantage of 993 is weight difference. That affects everything.
At the 'ring I'd guess there is a 20 second difference in laptime. If you stripped out a Mk II to the same extent as a 993 RS CS, the difference would be at least 30 seconds, and some of the tactile superiority of the 993 would be clawed back.
Horses for courses.
There are 41 rhd UK RS and 7 (clubsport),,,,,there are more actual rhd cars out there as they were made for singapore,HK & NZ for example....
I don't have these numbers but believe there about the same quantity again as UK cars. Burzel will have more accurate data than me on the other cars.
The thing is with that RS, if you turn up at Bristol in your nice 993 C2 and take it for a test drive, you may not be that impressed and possibly walk away thinking it is madness to spend 2-3 times the value of your current car on it.
I didn't "get" my 993 RS for the first few hundred miles, it didn't live up to the hype, it's only once you have done a track day and driven it for a few months that it all clicks into place, you then understand how the car is so much more than the sum of it's parts.
I don't have these numbers but believe there about the same quantity again as UK cars. Burzel will have more accurate data than me on the other cars.
The thing is with that RS, if you turn up at Bristol in your nice 993 C2 and take it for a test drive, you may not be that impressed and possibly walk away thinking it is madness to spend 2-3 times the value of your current car on it.
I didn't "get" my 993 RS for the first few hundred miles, it didn't live up to the hype, it's only once you have done a track day and driven it for a few months that it all clicks into place, you then understand how the car is so much more than the sum of it's parts.
jcosh said:
As always it depends on the car, driver and the track. Generally the 993RS is not as quick as the GT3RS mainly down to to pure horse power. On a tight twisty circuit thre is not much in it - Brands Indy.
Be assured Dan, you will come up against a 993RS that will take you by supprise.
Cheers Jonathan
Of that I'm certain. There are legions of better drivers than me, and presumably some very highly tuned slick shod 993 RSs out there. Given the room for development in my driving that still remains, I was just a tad surprised by the lack of pace in the 993 RS I saw! I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest.
The 996GT3RS is a better car in all areas on an average circuit. It has better traction, accelleration and braking. It's disadvantage is in very slow corners but it is much quicker in faster corners. The 993 is more accessable. The 997 will take the game on further. But then no Porsche is any good unless it is least 10 years old is it...
steve rance said:
The 996GT3RS is a better car in all areas on an average circuit. It has better traction, accelleration and braking. It's disadvantage is in very slow corners but it is much quicker in faster corners. The 993 is more accessable. The 997 will take the game on further. But then no Porsche is any good unless it is least 10 years old is it...
Yeah, a '73 ducktail RS could have 'em all
Shows that price bears little relation to dynamics. For example, an F40 owner told my mate the other day that a F430 is by far the better car and much cheaper and that you'd be mad to buy an F40 over one. He has it for collectability/depreciation/rarity/myth/character whatever.
I've never personally owned a 993RS/CS - but I've driven a few and have friends who do/have owned them.
They are great cars, the handling being more impressive than the engine IMHO - but not 65Ks worth - again IMHO.
Also, I assume that car has an unmodified engine (and suspension)? Does that not mean that it will in fact not deliver the advertised 300bhp as they were all down on power (unusually for Porsche) from the factory, right?
It seems from my friends experiences to be very expensive and time consuming to add more power - which I persoanlly think they need.
It can't do any harm to insist that for 65K you get it power checked BEFORE purchase - and for each BHP off 300 you get a 1000 quid reduction
For that money I would certainly be looking at a GT3/RS/MR or be waiting for the 997GT3.
They are great cars, the handling being more impressive than the engine IMHO - but not 65Ks worth - again IMHO.
Also, I assume that car has an unmodified engine (and suspension)? Does that not mean that it will in fact not deliver the advertised 300bhp as they were all down on power (unusually for Porsche) from the factory, right?
It seems from my friends experiences to be very expensive and time consuming to add more power - which I persoanlly think they need.
It can't do any harm to insist that for 65K you get it power checked BEFORE purchase - and for each BHP off 300 you get a 1000 quid reduction
For that money I would certainly be looking at a GT3/RS/MR or be waiting for the 997GT3.
Sure a GT3RS is more accelerative, would disagree it has more traction, would disagree it has better brakes. If it did why do all you GT3RS boys change yours!
The brakes on the 993RS are the same as fitted to the 993GT2. I run standard brake discs on my GT2 and can assure you on the 993RS with 200BHP less they are faultless.
It seems this is down to whether you are of the opinion that the evolution of a car such as the 911 must automatically bring improvements. Or if you are of the opinion that Porsche is run by accountants looking to make as much money as possible, and that they no longer produce the lightweight sublime vehicles they once manufactured as they don't make any money on them and the nanny EU insists on airbags, crash bars etc.
I personally fall into the second camp, after a daliance with a 996GT2 I went back to a 964 RSCS and then onto a 993GT2.
At the end of the day it's not all about outright accelerative speed, it's about the feedback and delicacy that can only come with low mass. Unfortunately with all the apendages fitted to modern 911's they just don't give you the 'feel' of the earlier lightweight cars.
When I had my 993rs I frequently had people come up to me and say 'what have you done to the engine?' 'nothing' I replied it's got 300BHP. It is unbelievable how rapid these cars can be if set up properly.
I would urge people with the later cars that if they get an opportunity to drive a 964rs/993rs/993GT2 on track do please do it - you will be amazed!
When at Spa earlier in the year, a friend with a lot of race experience in a variety of cars took my 993GT2 out on track (he has a 996GT3 mark II) When he came in I said 'what did you think?' He replied 'I've bought the wrong car' and wandered off mumbling...
So chaps with 996GT3's try one of the older air cooler porkers, then make your judgement call!
The brakes on the 993RS are the same as fitted to the 993GT2. I run standard brake discs on my GT2 and can assure you on the 993RS with 200BHP less they are faultless.
It seems this is down to whether you are of the opinion that the evolution of a car such as the 911 must automatically bring improvements. Or if you are of the opinion that Porsche is run by accountants looking to make as much money as possible, and that they no longer produce the lightweight sublime vehicles they once manufactured as they don't make any money on them and the nanny EU insists on airbags, crash bars etc.
I personally fall into the second camp, after a daliance with a 996GT2 I went back to a 964 RSCS and then onto a 993GT2.
At the end of the day it's not all about outright accelerative speed, it's about the feedback and delicacy that can only come with low mass. Unfortunately with all the apendages fitted to modern 911's they just don't give you the 'feel' of the earlier lightweight cars.
When I had my 993rs I frequently had people come up to me and say 'what have you done to the engine?' 'nothing' I replied it's got 300BHP. It is unbelievable how rapid these cars can be if set up properly.
I would urge people with the later cars that if they get an opportunity to drive a 964rs/993rs/993GT2 on track do please do it - you will be amazed!
When at Spa earlier in the year, a friend with a lot of race experience in a variety of cars took my 993GT2 out on track (he has a 996GT3 mark II) When he came in I said 'what did you think?' He replied 'I've bought the wrong car' and wandered off mumbling...
So chaps with 996GT3's try one of the older air cooler porkers, then make your judgement call!
Sure a GT3RS is more accelerative, would disagree it has more traction, would disagree it has better brakes. If it did why do all you GT3RS boys change yours!
The brakes on the 993RS are the same as fitted to the 993GT2. I run standard brake discs on my GT2 and can assure you on the 993RS with 200BHP less they are faultless.
It seems this is down to whether you are of the opinion that the evolution of a car such as the 911 must automatically bring improvements. Or if you are of the opinion that Porsche is run by accountants looking to make as much money as possible, and that they no longer produce the lightweight sublime vehicles they once manufactured as they don't make any money on them and the nanny EU insists on airbags, crash bars etc.
I personally fall into the second camp, after a daliance with a 996GT2 I went back to a 964 RSCS and then onto a 993GT2.
At the end of the day it's not all about outright accelerative speed, it's about the feedback and delicacy that can only come with low mass. Unfortunately with all the apendages fitted to modern 911's they just don't give you the 'feel' of the earlier lightweight cars.
When I had my 993rs I frequently had people come up to me and say 'what have you done to the engine?' 'nothing' I replied it's got 300BHP. It is unbelievable how rapid these cars can be if set up properly.
I would urge people with the later cars that if they get an opportunity to drive a 964rs/993rs/993GT2 on track do please do it - you will be amazed!
When at Spa earlier in the year, a friend with a lot of race experience in a variety of cars took my 993GT2 out on track (he has a 996GT3 mark II) When he came in I said 'what did you think?' He replied 'I've bought the wrong car' and wandered off mumbling...
So chaps with 996GT3's try one of the older air cooler porkers, then make your judgement call!
The brakes on the 993RS are the same as fitted to the 993GT2. I run standard brake discs on my GT2 and can assure you on the 993RS with 200BHP less they are faultless.
It seems this is down to whether you are of the opinion that the evolution of a car such as the 911 must automatically bring improvements. Or if you are of the opinion that Porsche is run by accountants looking to make as much money as possible, and that they no longer produce the lightweight sublime vehicles they once manufactured as they don't make any money on them and the nanny EU insists on airbags, crash bars etc.
I personally fall into the second camp, after a daliance with a 996GT2 I went back to a 964 RSCS and then onto a 993GT2.
At the end of the day it's not all about outright accelerative speed, it's about the feedback and delicacy that can only come with low mass. Unfortunately with all the apendages fitted to modern 911's they just don't give you the 'feel' of the earlier lightweight cars.
When I had my 993rs I frequently had people come up to me and say 'what have you done to the engine?' 'nothing' I replied it's got 300BHP. It is unbelievable how rapid these cars can be if set up properly.
I would urge people with the later cars that if they get an opportunity to drive a 964rs/993rs/993GT2 on track do please do it - you will be amazed!
When at Spa earlier in the year, a friend with a lot of race experience in a variety of cars took my 993GT2 out on track (he has a 996GT3 mark II) When he came in I said 'what did you think?' He replied 'I've bought the wrong car' and wandered off mumbling...
So chaps with 996GT3's try one of the older air cooler porkers, then make your judgement call!
Used to have a 993 RS (many moons ago) now have GT3RS.
Prefer the GT3RS by a mile. All down to personal preference I guess,
But I wouldn't be at all surprised if in 10 years time, i'm sitting here telling the young whippersnappers with their 999RS how they don't know how good the 996GT3RS is, and how the fact that the new one weighs 3 tons but laps the ring in 7 minutes dead is irrelevant etc etc..
Prefer the GT3RS by a mile. All down to personal preference I guess,
But I wouldn't be at all surprised if in 10 years time, i'm sitting here telling the young whippersnappers with their 999RS how they don't know how good the 996GT3RS is, and how the fact that the new one weighs 3 tons but laps the ring in 7 minutes dead is irrelevant etc etc..
993rsr said:
And one more thing, you'll never loose and may even make some money on the proper RS's/GT2's!
The eminently succinct 993RSR reiterates a point I made just a few hours ago.
Tell me though, why does the out and out speed of a car make it either better or desirable? The GT3RS is quicker but that doesn’t necessarily make it better?
nice thread.surely a lot of this depends on what sort of a driver you are.Personally I suspect I am not remotely as quick,aggressive or committed as many of those on this forum so while I adored the GT3RS I don't believe I ever really got close to the car's limits.The 993RS is just that much more organic and easier to exploit for a driver like me and as such I get more out of the experiance.The depreciation factor is key too but only currently.I'm convinced that the GT3RS will start to appreciate in years to come because by future standards it will still be a very limited model especially given that many will sustain damage going forward if used as intended...
domster said:According to the F40 owner's way of thinking, a Boxter is "by far the better car" than the 2.7 RS.
[quote=steve rance]Shows that price bears little relation to dynamics. For example, an F40 owner told my mate the other day that a F430 is by far the better car and much cheaper and that you'd be mad to buy an F40 over one. He has it for collectability/depreciation/rarity/myth/character whatever.
Sounds like a typical Ferrari owner - he just doesn't get it.
flemke said:
[quote=steve rance]Shows that price bears little relation to dynamics. For example, an F40 owner told my mate the other day that a F430 is by far the better car and much cheaper and that you'd be mad to buy an F40 over one. He has it for collectability/depreciation/rarity/myth/character whatever.
Sounds like a typical Ferrari owner - he just doesn't get it.
I own an F40 and GT3RS.
To me the GT3RS is so much more accessible, its fast, easy to drive with lots of traction. And it does not put the fear of God into you!
The F40 is hard work to drive fast. You can put the hamer down on a good straight and eat the road up. But, you have to be so very carfeul when nearly 450 ft/lb of torque arrives almost instantly at 4500 rpm odd. If you're mid corner you're stuck for what to do, you know the car will go round faster, but not 4500 rpm faster. Its a real mind game and an enjoyable one to master.
I enjoy the differences. And I would recommend an F40 over a F430. The'res not a car like it.
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