Discussion
Hi there, I'll help where I can, but there's a lot of 'AFAIK' going on here, so if anyone knows better, I hope they pipe up :-)
The main thing to watch for with any turbo car is misfires, as although these can be simple and cheap to solve (new plugs!) they can also be problematic and expensive to solve (leaking head gasket, sticking valves etc). To check for a misfire, take the car out in the dry - in the wet you will be wheelspinning anyway - and make sure it pulls cleanly up to the red line without hesitating or stuttering. Have the stereo off as mechanicl noises will be more evident. Misfires are more likely to be caused under 'heavy load' so lower gear full acceleration is likely to be fine. Try accelerating in a higher gear up a hill, with a 'snap' throttle action rather than a really progressive one. This is the *worst* you can ask of an engine, really.
At such low mileage, I wouldn't expect problems to the engine, but some others may have been caused through underuse, as you say. Rubber gaskets and seals, particularly in the gearbox/clutch region can fail, and be expensive (labour not parts) to rectify. All you can do is ask Camtune, and check how it was used (pampered or not, in a garage or not, driven regularly at least 10 miles a time etc.).
Camtune have a pretty decent reputation - their cars are always a bit more than the private market, but this is reflected in their dealer back-up and warranty etc. If any ancilliaries have 'gone' you should spot them in the first month or two of regular use (tends to be things like aircon regassing) so if you have a 3 or 6 month warranty, no probs.
If the car is inside the showroom, oil leaks should be evidenced by a drip or two of oil on the floor. Otherwise, peer undeneath with a torch and check that the engine is 'dry' - you can't miss the barrels if you've an idea of what a flat engine layout looks like.
Head bolts will be impossible to check. They only need to expand a micron more than normal for a leak to occur.
35k is a 'good' price for a Turbo 2 - not too cheap, but still half the new cost price. If you said a car like that in RHD for 25k I'd be more worried.
Rgds
Domster
The main thing to watch for with any turbo car is misfires, as although these can be simple and cheap to solve (new plugs!) they can also be problematic and expensive to solve (leaking head gasket, sticking valves etc). To check for a misfire, take the car out in the dry - in the wet you will be wheelspinning anyway - and make sure it pulls cleanly up to the red line without hesitating or stuttering. Have the stereo off as mechanicl noises will be more evident. Misfires are more likely to be caused under 'heavy load' so lower gear full acceleration is likely to be fine. Try accelerating in a higher gear up a hill, with a 'snap' throttle action rather than a really progressive one. This is the *worst* you can ask of an engine, really.
At such low mileage, I wouldn't expect problems to the engine, but some others may have been caused through underuse, as you say. Rubber gaskets and seals, particularly in the gearbox/clutch region can fail, and be expensive (labour not parts) to rectify. All you can do is ask Camtune, and check how it was used (pampered or not, in a garage or not, driven regularly at least 10 miles a time etc.).
Camtune have a pretty decent reputation - their cars are always a bit more than the private market, but this is reflected in their dealer back-up and warranty etc. If any ancilliaries have 'gone' you should spot them in the first month or two of regular use (tends to be things like aircon regassing) so if you have a 3 or 6 month warranty, no probs.
If the car is inside the showroom, oil leaks should be evidenced by a drip or two of oil on the floor. Otherwise, peer undeneath with a torch and check that the engine is 'dry' - you can't miss the barrels if you've an idea of what a flat engine layout looks like.
Head bolts will be impossible to check. They only need to expand a micron more than normal for a leak to occur.
35k is a 'good' price for a Turbo 2 - not too cheap, but still half the new cost price. If you said a car like that in RHD for 25k I'd be more worried.
Rgds
Domster
OK, just got back from Shirley’s in Birmingham. I went out in both a J plate Turbo 2 with 40K on the clock, and a K plate RS LWT with 23K miles under its belt.
Two very different cars. In summary:
The T2 has a Techart back box and the intermediate silencers removed. This apparently could be adding as much as 40BHP. It has RS suspension (it is very low) and what looks like new Boxter wheels (just fitted). It sounds bloody great. Not over powering or annoying, just menacing. The ride was firm but not uncomfortable, and extremely stable (got it to 90MPH). It felt really direct, in the same way a go-kart is. Saving the best bit till last....... It goes like stink!!! I've been in a number of low 5sec (0-60) cars and this would kick their ass. I don't know if it’s those alleged 40 extra horses, or whether its just been a while since i've been in a turbo car. It, disturbingly, accelerated quicker than I could process what was going on around me. I hope I get a bit better at this or it could be an early end to 911 ownership. In summary a great fun car for an every day person (i.e. not a motor sport pro).
So the RS. Well, the car is immaculate, almost looks brand new. It's not as bare as I was expecting, but there are no concessions on the ride front. It is harsh and very jittery. You just can't relax, you feel every stone/blemish/change of camber and you need too. As you’ll be fidgeting with the steering wheel, making tiny corrections (which probably aren’t necessary). Talking to the mechanic, he say’s a lot of people stack RS's because they react to every change in road surface, which will inevitably catch some people out. Non-the-less a fantastic car with more noises than a winging left-wing politician. Very much suited to a motor sport pro (or aspiring…).
So what did I do? Well of the 2 cars the Turbo 2 was definitely the car for me. Made the RS feel slow! I spent a long time with the mechanic talking/looking over the car. He got it up on a ramp and we gave it a good look over. There were 3 oil leaks. Superfical thankfully, 2 from rusted oil feed back pipes and one from the turbo sump, due to a warped washer (probably been grounded). The heads where dry as a bone. The clutch seemed to be on its way out and there was a cracked fog light. Bodywork almost perfect, hard to believe on car that is 10 years old.
So I took the plunge, and agreed a price of £33K on the condition a new clutch was fitted, all 4 oil feed back pipes were replaced, the engine was steam cleaned and wax-oiled.
So the people, very pleasant. Picked me up from the station. Made me a brew (counted for a lot at the time, bloody northern whether...), and entertained all my questions. They will even come down to London and pick my car up when it needs servicing. The mechanic was also happy for me to help in the servicing of my car (something I’ve always wanted to do).
I pick the car up in a week. Oh and I get the private plate as well (J1LOF).
Two very different cars. In summary:
The T2 has a Techart back box and the intermediate silencers removed. This apparently could be adding as much as 40BHP. It has RS suspension (it is very low) and what looks like new Boxter wheels (just fitted). It sounds bloody great. Not over powering or annoying, just menacing. The ride was firm but not uncomfortable, and extremely stable (got it to 90MPH). It felt really direct, in the same way a go-kart is. Saving the best bit till last....... It goes like stink!!! I've been in a number of low 5sec (0-60) cars and this would kick their ass. I don't know if it’s those alleged 40 extra horses, or whether its just been a while since i've been in a turbo car. It, disturbingly, accelerated quicker than I could process what was going on around me. I hope I get a bit better at this or it could be an early end to 911 ownership. In summary a great fun car for an every day person (i.e. not a motor sport pro).
So the RS. Well, the car is immaculate, almost looks brand new. It's not as bare as I was expecting, but there are no concessions on the ride front. It is harsh and very jittery. You just can't relax, you feel every stone/blemish/change of camber and you need too. As you’ll be fidgeting with the steering wheel, making tiny corrections (which probably aren’t necessary). Talking to the mechanic, he say’s a lot of people stack RS's because they react to every change in road surface, which will inevitably catch some people out. Non-the-less a fantastic car with more noises than a winging left-wing politician. Very much suited to a motor sport pro (or aspiring…).
So what did I do? Well of the 2 cars the Turbo 2 was definitely the car for me. Made the RS feel slow! I spent a long time with the mechanic talking/looking over the car. He got it up on a ramp and we gave it a good look over. There were 3 oil leaks. Superfical thankfully, 2 from rusted oil feed back pipes and one from the turbo sump, due to a warped washer (probably been grounded). The heads where dry as a bone. The clutch seemed to be on its way out and there was a cracked fog light. Bodywork almost perfect, hard to believe on car that is 10 years old.
So I took the plunge, and agreed a price of £33K on the condition a new clutch was fitted, all 4 oil feed back pipes were replaced, the engine was steam cleaned and wax-oiled.
So the people, very pleasant. Picked me up from the station. Made me a brew (counted for a lot at the time, bloody northern whether...), and entertained all my questions. They will even come down to London and pick my car up when it needs servicing. The mechanic was also happy for me to help in the servicing of my car (something I’ve always wanted to do).
I pick the car up in a week. Oh and I get the private plate as well (J1LOF).
Nice write up UV - very interesting. It looks like I'll need to try both, but the T2 is closer to what I'm used to.
Glad you got the clutch seen to - they are 1.5k at least fitted.
Sensible checking for leaks, too. Relatively low miles may have meant leaks could have crept up on it.
Look forward to seeing it one Sunday soon!
Rgds
Dom
Glad you got the clutch seen to - they are 1.5k at least fitted.
Sensible checking for leaks, too. Relatively low miles may have meant leaks could have crept up on it.
Look forward to seeing it one Sunday soon!
Rgds
Dom
One thing I forgot to mention was, in my questioning I asked whether the 965 inherited the dual mass flywheel. It does, so next obvious question is, what is it, and why does it go wrong. Well, what better way to help explain than to go and get one. Off he pops, 10 secs latter i'm playing with a dual mass fly wheel. In his opinion they are not the trouble people would have you believe. However, they will ware out quicker than a tarts’ elastic if you try and wheel spin the car. This completely shags them. It's OK once you've got moving but not from a stand still. It's also very easy to tell when someone has done it. The one I was looking at end life that way.
Hi UV,
The only problem with dual mass flywheels is that the 'elastic' stuff in the flywheel sandwich can settle if the car isn't driven for long periods of time, causing a vibration. Also it tends to degrade over time. Not a massive problem unless you can feel it going wrong - and if you stay away from standing starts and you don't leave the car standing for ages, you should be okay.
My mate has a lighter RS single mass flywheel on his 964, but interestingly enough the lack of mass causes it to stall occasionally on cold mornings at idle.
Rgds
Dom
The only problem with dual mass flywheels is that the 'elastic' stuff in the flywheel sandwich can settle if the car isn't driven for long periods of time, causing a vibration. Also it tends to degrade over time. Not a massive problem unless you can feel it going wrong - and if you stay away from standing starts and you don't leave the car standing for ages, you should be okay.
My mate has a lighter RS single mass flywheel on his 964, but interestingly enough the lack of mass causes it to stall occasionally on cold mornings at idle.
Rgds
Dom
Just thought I would throw in my 2p's worth RE Porsche dealers as it was my first experience of them when I bought a boxster last week.
Glenvarigill in Glasgow were really superb, couldn't do enough for you, the preparation of the car pre sale and the whole buying process was a pleasure.
Not only would I be looking to buy a Porsche again for my next car, but would be very keen to do so from the same place.
The delights of good customer care eh?? 8-)
Glenvarigill in Glasgow were really superb, couldn't do enough for you, the preparation of the car pre sale and the whole buying process was a pleasure.
Not only would I be looking to buy a Porsche again for my next car, but would be very keen to do so from the same place.
The delights of good customer care eh?? 8-)
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