How threatened is JLR?...sounds worrying.

How threatened is JLR?...sounds worrying.

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Discussion

jamoor

13,954 posts

175 months

Tuesday 10th March
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
It's quite funny reading reactions when people who've gone for the Merc call the dealer to book the first service and get told it's ~£350. Then the second year it's ~£600.
Jesus, what do they do in year 2?

Sheepshanks

21,962 posts

79 months

Tuesday 10th March
quotequote all
XIII said:
Range Rover Sport was the least reliable car for the second year running...followed by the Discovery Sport.
I'd like a Disco Sport - wife has an EU6 diesel Tiguan and something with occasional 7 seats would be handy to have.

I'd happily lease one if the price was right but we usually buy our cars and keep them for a few years and the ownership horror stories are just too terrifying!

Massive numbers of LandRovers are given to people of subsidised deals for one reason or another and that must boost their numbers.

Sheepshanks

21,962 posts

79 months

Tuesday 10th March
quotequote all
jamoor said:
Sheepshanks said:
It's quite funny reading reactions when people who've gone for the Merc call the dealer to book the first service and get told it's ~£350. Then the second year it's ~£600.
Jesus, what do they do in year 2?
In reality not much, but it's a major service (which is still only oil and filter at 2yrs) and lots of checks. They also change the pollen filter and key batteries. Then there's the "additional work" of changing the brake fluid which is every 2yrs on Mercs - £110 is a common price. Plus they automatically load the price by £50 if you want a courtesy car or collection and delivery. Dealers set their own prices and they can vary quite a lot but people don't realise that and just use their local one.

The pricing is bonkers, but that's because MB wants everyone to buy their ServiceCare package - trouble is that looks expensive too so people don't buy it, thinking the servicing can't be that expensive.

anonymous-user

14 months

Tuesday 10th March
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
XIII said:
Range Rover Sport was the least reliable car for the second year running...followed by the Discovery Sport.
I'd like a Disco Sport - wife has an EU6 diesel Tiguan and something with occasional 7 seats would be handy to have.

I'd happily lease one if the price was right but we usually buy our cars and keep them for a few years and the ownership horror stories are just too terrifying!

Massive numbers of LandRovers are given to people of subsidised deals for one reason or another and that must boost their numbers.
I noticed my mate not driving his Evoque anymore, asked him why; steering failure. LR dealer wanted nearly £4k to replace. This wasn't an old and high mile example and because its classes as a wear and tear part (apparently) it's not covered by warranty. Quick look on the forums it's a common issue with 4cyl Evoques and Disco Sports.

Colleague of mine has had his 2 year old Disco 5 sent back complete electrical failure. Replaced ECUs and now it's back with LR themselves. He's rejected it.


jamoor

13,954 posts

175 months

Tuesday 10th March
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
In reality not much, but it's a major service (which is still only oil and filter at 2yrs) and lots of checks. They also change the pollen filter and key batteries. Then there's the "additional work" of changing the brake fluid which is every 2yrs on Mercs - £110 is a common price. Plus they automatically load the price by £50 if you want a courtesy car or collection and delivery. Dealers set their own prices and they can vary quite a lot but people don't realise that and just use their local one.

The pricing is bonkers, but that's because MB wants everyone to buy their ServiceCare package - trouble is that looks expensive too so people don't buy it, thinking the servicing can't be that expensive.
Jesus, that's just a total con job.

It's extremely poor value for the consumer.

Pvapour

8,981 posts

213 months

Tuesday 10th March
quotequote all
XIII said:
Sheepshanks said:
XIII said:
Range Rover Sport was the least reliable car for the second year running...followed by the Discovery Sport.
I'd like a Disco Sport - wife has an EU6 diesel Tiguan and something with occasional 7 seats would be handy to have.

I'd happily lease one if the price was right but we usually buy our cars and keep them for a few years and the ownership horror stories are just too terrifying!

Massive numbers of LandRovers are given to people of subsidised deals for one reason or another and that must boost their numbers.
I noticed my mate not driving his Evoque anymore, asked him why; steering failure. LR dealer wanted nearly £4k to replace. This wasn't an old and high mile example and because its classes as a wear and tear part (apparently) it's not covered by warranty. Quick look on the forums it's a common issue with 4cyl Evoques and Disco Sports.

Colleague of mine has had his 2 year old Disco 5 sent back complete electrical failure. Replaced ECUs and now it's back with LR themselves. He's rejected it.
Their latest effort, ipace, has loads of electrical gremlins + other bits, we just laugh about them as it just for local dog walks and local airport runs, we got it because it was free but if we’d paid anything more than 30k for it we’d be very disappointed.

Just sold my xj (351) and had an xf 3.0d before that and both of those I loved but both had quality issues, both drove better than the german competitors though and the xf rode beautifully (thought the xj did till i bought an s class)

Edited by Pvapour on Wednesday 11th March 06:16

Sheepshanks

21,962 posts

79 months

Tuesday 10th March
quotequote all
jamoor said:
Jesus, that's just a total con job.

It's extremely poor value for the consumer.
To be fair, first hit on Google to "how much is 2nd service on Discovery Sport" brings up a 2018 thread with the cost at....£600.

jamoor

13,954 posts

175 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
To be fair, first hit on Google to "how much is 2nd service on Discovery Sport" brings up a 2018 thread with the cost at....£600.
Still poor value to the consumer.

It's what, £100 in parts and £500 in labour?

The Li-ion King

2,647 posts

24 months

Wednesday 1st April
quotequote all
Flumpo said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Flumpo said:
I think ford will be I trouble in the uk pretty soon. I think the fiesta is safe but I think the focus might be in trouble.

I was looking at lease deals Last month, and A titanium focus was only £8 a month cheaper than an a class. However for £8 a month more the merc was faster, better mpg, fake leather and has a MASSIVE merc badge.

I’m guessing the pcp deals can’t be too wide apart either.

Ford don’t seem to do all that well in Europe either.
Pretty sure it's the transit that is propping up sales here. At least that is what I've heard about the office.

Fiesta does seem fairly popular, see them about a bit. But not as much as the older one. Certainly the ST, you couldn't move for tripping over an ST. Now, I think I've seen maybe 3 or 4? That's it.

Focus has become almost as anonymous. Hardly see any about.
I think it was a case of a difficult second album. The last one did so well they didn’t want to stray too far. The latest one is a bit anonymous and not different enough.

My wife had the old one and now has a new one. From the outside you can’t quite believe it’s an all new car. She says it’s a lot better in every way, but I can see why many people might fancy a change and get a polo or something else.

I wonder if the puma had just been the new fiesta if that would have had a bigger impact.
It's a tall car much in the similar vein of the EcoSport or Fusion. Sat in one while my Transit Connect was being serviced, not bad if you had it as a hire car, but won't tempt people out of Mercedes, BMW's, Toyota or Lexus.

As for Jaguars, I don't see that many about, though tons of Velar's and RR Sports.They do make some cracking cars, but even after Coronavirus goes, you are left with much lower speed limits (20 if in London), so would rarely enjoy that exhaust note.

Tech is not their strong point when it comes to infotainment, clunky sat navs are still a bit outdated. I think, it will be Tata For Now if they don't get their house in order... frown

JMBMWM5

1,758 posts

158 months

Saturday 18th April
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
Maybe if JLR worked on improving their reliability and improve the after sales service of their franchise network, they would not be in this position. When you are paying for a premuim product you expect a premium service and far higher levels of reliability.

Why should they be bailed out with tax payers money for issues that are within their own control. They are the modern day British Leyland so we should not be surprised they find themselves in this position.
I'm afraid I have too agree, reliability is frankly appalling for high end Cars, many are send back for refunds as faults are not fixable!! in three or more attempts, unacceptable end off.

saxon

333 posts

210 months

Saturday 13th June
quotequote all
I happen to think that in terms of styling and ambience and sense of occasion both Land Rover and Jaguar absolutely destroy the BMW's and Mercedes and Volvo alternatives. The problem is that in terms of running costs and reliability they fall far short of the competition and their dealerships are pretentious, overpriced and useless.

At one point I had 3x British V8's on the drive:

Land Rover Discovery V8
Jaguar XJ8
TVR Griffith

The Jaguar was utterly sublime when it worked and looked the dogs doo-dah's but it was without question the most unreliable and expensive to run heap of sh~t I have ever owned. That went after just a year, during which time it broke down and left me stranded three times!!!

The Land Rover Discovery was an absolutely superb vehicle for carrying massive amounts of camping gear, bicycles, garden rubbish etc no matter what the conditions and I thoroughly enjoyed driving it in severe snow and floods when its staggering abilities astounded me. Both my wife and I loved it and still do but eventually after several years of joyful ownership it needed a £5000 engine rebuild at 100 000 miles and then twelve months later started having severe problems AGAIN, so we got rid.

The TVR was infinitely more reliable than the Jaguar and had/has massively lower average running costs. It has had its share of electrical gremlins though (mostly caused by specialist dealers not being able to trace really quite simple faults). It's no longer a daily driver though and is easily the best car I have ever owned for smiles per mile so it's still on the drive after 23 years!

The Landy got replaced by a Mitsubishi Outlander and the Jag by a Saab 9-3 convertible (for 7 superb years) and now by a Toyota GT86 which as you can imagine has been flawlessly brilliant.

What JLR need to do is to keep designing incredibly beautiful cars but build them like Toyota, Saab and Mitsubishi do! I isn't rocket science.

Saxon

NMNeil

917 posts

10 months

Saturday 13th June
quotequote all
bartelbe said:
The problem is the short termism and unwillingness of this country and our idiot government to back British companies.
But JLR is Indian owned. So is it still a British car company?

AmitG

2,494 posts

120 months

Sunday 14th June
quotequote all
NMNeil said:
bartelbe said:
The problem is the short termism and unwillingness of this country and our idiot government to back British companies.
But JLR is Indian owned. So is it still a British car company?
IIRC, Tata (the Indian owners) are very hands-off with JLR. They invested a lot at the beginning, but then they basically trusted JLR to do what they do best.

I wonder how Tata are feeling now. JLR have had a lot of success over the past few years - it hasn't been all doom and gloom - but it isn't looking great right now. Taking Jaguar specifically, they used to be everywhere; yet these days I can easily go the whole day without seeing one.


RDMcG

Original Poster:

15,904 posts

167 months

Monday 15th June
quotequote all

anonymous-user

14 months

Monday 15th June
quotequote all
RDMcG said:
That's exactly what JLR need right now. More cost cutting...

DonkeyApple

39,006 posts

129 months

Wednesday 2nd September
quotequote all
By all accounts there’s a big disposal about to happen in the industry. Lots of chitter chatter around the pubs this week, getting louder nearer to Goldman’s.

General assumption is that this is the changing hands of JLR.

AmitG

2,494 posts

120 months

Wednesday 2nd September
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
By all accounts there’s a big disposal about to happen in the industry. Lots of chitter chatter around the pubs this week, getting louder nearer to Goldman’s.

General assumption is that this is the changing hands of JLR.
I wonder who will buy it. Unless it's a real fire sale, there can't be many takers right now, surely?


Louis Balfour

19,718 posts

182 months

Wednesday 2nd September
quotequote all
laugh
AmitG said:
DonkeyApple said:
By all accounts there’s a big disposal about to happen in the industry. Lots of chitter chatter around the pubs this week, getting louder nearer to Goldman’s.

General assumption is that this is the changing hands of JLR.
I wonder who will buy it. Unless it's a real fire sale, there can't be many takers right now, surely?
Probably Mike Ashley.laugh


DonkeyApple

39,006 posts

129 months

Wednesday 2nd September
quotequote all
AmitG said:
DonkeyApple said:
By all accounts there’s a big disposal about to happen in the industry. Lots of chitter chatter around the pubs this week, getting louder nearer to Goldman’s.

General assumption is that this is the changing hands of JLR.
I wonder who will buy it. Unless it's a real fire sale, there can't be many takers right now, surely?
One would assume, given the timing, that it’s still PSA. Not sure a completely new deal could have been thrashed out during lockdown?

emperorburger

733 posts

26 months

Wednesday 2nd September
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
One would assume, given the timing, that it’s still PSA. Not sure a completely new deal could have been thrashed out during lockdown?
With PSA currently in the process of tying the knot with FCA, I can't believe they would be in the running.