Cerbera Rolling Road Day - Aug 13th....show me the horses!
Discussion
clive f said:
I think you`ve hit the nail on the head there Ben, I`d love to be able to put my sag alongside my old ajp griff and see how they compare in a straight line, the ajp being so raucous where as the speed 6 being so smooth in its delivery, but still deceptively quick.
I think the Sag would be ahead up to 120mph, then the Cerb would creep past.clive f said:
I think you`ve hit the nail on the head there Ben, I`d love to be able to put my sag alongside my old ajp griff and see how they compare in a straight line, the ajp being so raucous where as the speed 6 being so smooth in its delivery, but still deceptively quick.
Yup. With the standard s6 you just don't get that punch that you do with other Tivs. What you get is something that comes on cam later and builds progressively to a very similar end result.
I think I'm one of the few who'll take a straight 6 over a v8 any day. I've always loved the note and the way a 6 drives. You feel so much more involved and while the power and smoothness is there to enjoy driving normally when you want to go for it the experience for me is far more involving. It's very much horses for courses but many modern v8 engines have driving character more online with a 6 than the classic v8.
BCA said:
Yup, it is still going strong too and I dont doubt it'll continue to do so for a fair while yet. I think SimonSparrow is on 130k miles or more now too. Bloody awesome engine, one of the absolute greats. Natben, I sense you are a little anti-AJP and pro-S6, I can see why if you haven't experienced a properly set up AJP at full health, especially as the S6 is such a refined and yet characterful engine. We love our 3.6 T350c with the six, and I hope it'll do similar mileage to the Cerb with the same ease - however, you need to fully appreciate that the AJP, when perfect, is absolutely bat-s
t-crazy. The later S6 is a great engine, but the AJP is a fking great engine!
I honestly think people need both in thier lives, and to me, the Cerb is perfectly suited to the AJP - I also feel the T350 is perfectly suited to the S6. A Sagaris, for all of its outrageous looks, well, I feel it'd also suit an AJP.
That said, I cannot get on with the Sagaris rear end/ bonnet arrangement. What I will say however, is that I have been in a 4.2litre str8six built T350R - it was pretty much half way between the two in feel. I actually think the six sounds better 90% of the time, and for road manners, it spanks the Cerb - but the moment when you get a clear, third gear run - where the Cerb would take off violently, the T350 builds its accelleration in a linear way up to the rev limit. This makes the T350 easier to drive hard, but the Cerb is the more instantly satisfying for pure thrills. As I said, both great, but the AJP is greater to my mind.
I wouldnt swap the six currently, but I'll be back in an AJP Cerb, definitely.
Hi BCA,t-crazy. The later S6 is a great engine, but the AJP is a fking great engine! I honestly think people need both in thier lives, and to me, the Cerb is perfectly suited to the AJP - I also feel the T350 is perfectly suited to the S6. A Sagaris, for all of its outrageous looks, well, I feel it'd also suit an AJP.
That said, I cannot get on with the Sagaris rear end/ bonnet arrangement. What I will say however, is that I have been in a 4.2litre str8six built T350R - it was pretty much half way between the two in feel. I actually think the six sounds better 90% of the time, and for road manners, it spanks the Cerb - but the moment when you get a clear, third gear run - where the Cerb would take off violently, the T350 builds its accelleration in a linear way up to the rev limit. This makes the T350 easier to drive hard, but the Cerb is the more instantly satisfying for pure thrills. As I said, both great, but the AJP is greater to my mind. I wouldnt swap the six currently, but I'll be back in an AJP Cerb, definitely.
Great post, please be assured I am not anti AJP, I love the Cerbera in either form they are fantastic cars, I have had a SP6 Tuscan before so I new the SP6 engine and enjoyed its power and delivery. When I was looking for a Cerbera I would have happily bought a AJP in either 4.2 or 4.5 form but nothing came up in the year,colour or spec and at a price that suited me. A SP6 came up that ticked all the boxes and I have been more than happy with it over the last 2 years.
I would love to have both a AJP and a SP6 TVR but can't see it happening any time soon, Enjoy
BCA said:
I would suggest you havent driven an AJP at the thick end of 3rd gear and that in a T350 you would have to also be in third... 
Trust me, the *delivery* alone is very, very different. We'll find out how the absolute straight line pace compares at the Brighton Speed Trials shortly, initial data from other events indicates the Cerb has a slight advantage, but only at greater speed. This makes sense, as the T350 is 100kilos lighter, but the AJP always feels much faster/ more violent though, due to that delivery/ torque.
Both epic, in different ways and I dare say, both very similar in pace.
You're right about not having driven a Cerb and I've no idea how they are geared either. What I do know is that I'm good for 60+mph in 1st, 95+mph in 2nd, 125+mph in 3rd, 155+mph in 4th etc - not sure how a Cerb would compare probably similar ? I think you could be right regarding pace. The SP6 cars are deceptively quick because as you rightly point out the power delivery is very smooth. From personal experience I have raced (FT 2007) 3 Cerbs (1x4.2 and 2x4.5's) over 3/4 mile. Over the full 3/4 mile distance it was fairly close but over the 1/4 mile I was comfortably in front every time.Trust me, the *delivery* alone is very, very different. We'll find out how the absolute straight line pace compares at the Brighton Speed Trials shortly, initial data from other events indicates the Cerb has a slight advantage, but only at greater speed. This makes sense, as the T350 is 100kilos lighter, but the AJP always feels much faster/ more violent though, due to that delivery/ torque.
Both epic, in different ways and I dare say, both very similar in pace.
Obviously this doesn't factor in the state of tune of the engines - my car was running standard wheels / tyres / tyre pressures. I think the SP6 cars are probably easier to launch off of the line as well. As we've seen recently the Cerb's still seem to be edging it on the dyno but a fast car is one that goes fast either in a straight line or round a track regardless of what the dyno says.
s5tvr said:
You're right about not having driven a Cerb and I've no idea how they are geared either. What I do know is that I'm good for 60+mph in 1st, 95+mph in 2nd, 125+mph in 3rd, 155+mph in 4th etc - not sure how a Cerb would compare probably similar ? I think you could be right regarding pace. The SP6 cars are deceptively quick because as you rightly point out the power delivery is very smooth. From personal experience I have raced (FT 2007) 3 Cerbs (1x4.2 and 2x4.5's) over 3/4 mile. Over the full 3/4 mile distance it was fairly close but over the 1/4 mile I was comfortably in front every time.
Obviously this doesn't factor in the state of tune of the engines - my car was running standard wheels / tyres / tyre pressures. I think the SP6 cars are probably easier to launch off of the line as well. As we've seen recently the Cerb's still seem to be edging it on the dyno but a fast car is one that goes fast either in a straight line or round a track regardless of what the dyno says.
Fair point.....but always hard to compare due to different specs, driver willingness etc.Obviously this doesn't factor in the state of tune of the engines - my car was running standard wheels / tyres / tyre pressures. I think the SP6 cars are probably easier to launch off of the line as well. As we've seen recently the Cerb's still seem to be edging it on the dyno but a fast car is one that goes fast either in a straight line or round a track regardless of what the dyno says.
I dragged my Cerb a few times
(running between 405-420bhp, STD wheels and tyres) and never had another TVR in front of me, that included big powered Tuscans, Sagarii, Griffs etc, however, that doesn't mean there weren't faster and as / more powerful TVR's out there.Even with 20-50bhp difference at around 400bhp the difference wouldn't be that noticeable over a drag race / VMax / Track unless both driver's were fully committed. Both the AJP and S6 engined cars are very fast.........
Jules
Edited by Cyclone1 on Thursday 18th August 23:42
BCA said:
What is the exhaust set up on the Tuscan?/ Isn't this the same Tuscan that weighed something silly-light? I know I've asked you before, but are you sure no-one 'special' to the factory owned it before?? 
I guess another real question to be asked, is how restrictive the Sagaris exhaust system is? It is the only way it differs from the Tuscan that I can think of engine wise??
It's not silly light, just weighed less than Julian64's Cerb which considering its a smaller car is to be expected. The exhaust system was a standard S system (the S has a larger bore exhaust than a standard Tuscan) and is running a standard Tuscan S chip.I guess another real question to be asked, is how restrictive the Sagaris exhaust system is? It is the only way it differs from the Tuscan that I can think of engine wise??
Noisy said:
BCA said:
What is the exhaust set up on the Tuscan?/ Isn't this the same Tuscan that weighed something silly-light? I know I've asked you before, but are you sure no-one 'special' to the factory owned it before??
I guess another real question to be asked, is how restrictive the Sagaris exhaust system is? It is the only way it differs from the Tuscan that I can think of engine wise??
It's not silly light, just weighed less than Julian64's Cerb which considering its a smaller car is to be expected. The exhaust system was a standard S system (the S has a larger bore exhaust than a standard Tuscan) and is running a standard Tuscan S chip.I guess another real question to be asked, is how restrictive the Sagaris exhaust system is? It is the only way it differs from the Tuscan that I can think of engine wise??
If so you are about 120kg lighter than my cerb which weighs in at 1340kg with a tank of fuel.
Need to chuck some bodywork out of my car
.julian64 said:
Errum, when we corner weighted your car weren't you at about 1250kg, and then 1220 when you finally remembered to take the large box of spanners out the boot of your car?
If so you are about 120kg lighter than my cerb which weighs in at 1340kg with a tank of fuel.
Need to chuck some bodywork out of my car.
I think 1180kg was the figure, with a full tank. If so you are about 120kg lighter than my cerb which weighs in at 1340kg with a tank of fuel.
Need to chuck some bodywork out of my car
.And yes top tip for everyone, if you corner weight a car, don't forget to take the heavy bag of tools out the corner of the boot, we spent ages trying to figure out why last time it was almost perfect and this time was very heavy in one corner.
Noisy said:
julian64 said:
Errum, when we corner weighted your car weren't you at about 1250kg, and then 1220 when you finally remembered to take the large box of spanners out the boot of your car?
If so you are about 120kg lighter than my cerb which weighs in at 1340kg with a tank of fuel.
Need to chuck some bodywork out of my car.
I think 1180kg was the figure, with a full tank. If so you are about 120kg lighter than my cerb which weighs in at 1340kg with a tank of fuel.
Need to chuck some bodywork out of my car
.And yes top tip for everyone, if you corner weight a car, don't forget to take the heavy bag of tools out the corner of the boot, we spent ages trying to figure out why last time it was almost perfect and this time was very heavy in one corner.
HarryW said:
julian64 said:
Well then I see why you might pull away from a Cerb cos its 380/1180, vs 400/1340. I really really need to check my boot for unwanted spanners.
1340kg is yours one of those later LW 'Light Weight' or 'Large Window' ones, I thought Cerbs came in around the 1200 mark 
.I haven't corner weighted mine for about a year, so I could be mistaken. I did post the results on here complete with fancy diagram but I'm useless with searches. If not I'll try and get the scales out this weekend to check.
julian64 said:
Mines a lightweight .
I haven't corner weighted mine for about a year, so I could be mistaken. I did post the results on here complete with fancy diagram but I'm useless with searches. If not I'll try and get the scales out this weekend to check.
Would be interesting to compare with my earlier cerb too Julian..I haven't corner weighted mine for about a year, so I could be mistaken. I did post the results on here complete with fancy diagram but I'm useless with searches. If not I'll try and get the scales out this weekend to check.
I was just checking out the results of you boys at your power competition!
A bit amazed how large the difference is between some of the cars, from 426 all the way down to 341 for the little 4.2
Is that all just due to the difference in the engine cc, or have other changes been carried out to the more powerful cars?
Having said that, some other 4.2 cars are a lot more powerful than 341. I can understand it with the 4.5 cars.
A bit amazed how large the difference is between some of the cars, from 426 all the way down to 341 for the little 4.2
Is that all just due to the difference in the engine cc, or have other changes been carried out to the more powerful cars?
Having said that, some other 4.2 cars are a lot more powerful than 341. I can understand it with the 4.5 cars.
BCA said:
I think your Tuscan was lighter than that?? Our old Cerb was 1225kilos with about 20-25 litres of fuel. Our new T350 is 1140 with 40-45litres of fuel. very happy with the weight difference... Both weighed at MIRA.
Ohhh thats good to know! Im the one that needs to diet then.... very happy with the weight difference... Both weighed at MIRA. djstevec said:
Ohhh thats good to know! Im the one that needs to diet then....
It might be slightly lighter than that without all the assorted crap that Dad kept in the boot actually... but that same crap is now in the T350 - so the difference is still significant. It is one of the lighter Cerbs on the MIRA weighbridge - and they tend to be a bit particular about accuracy there. BCA said:
It might be slightly lighter than that without all the assorted crap that Dad kept in the boot actually... but that same crap is now in the T350 - so the difference is still significant. It is one of the lighter Cerbs on the MIRA weighbridge - and they tend to be a bit particular about accuracy there.
Well the boot currently stuffed full of 1 can of tyreweld, 2l of oil, 2l of water and a torch.
Not very prepared for a breakdown am I??!
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