Slow window fix using relays

Slow window fix using relays

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Discussion

RUSSELLM

Original Poster:

5,665 posts

211 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Was there any difference in speed in the before and after, difficult to see, but they are certainly quick either way.

Before the relay wiring, is that just lubrication and new connectors? Might have to change mine out. Which connectors did you use?

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 20th July 08:53
Yes, it was seized in the lower position, and barely worked when you helped it.

I sprayed some WD40 at the motor and mechanism, then smeared the mechanism with white grease.

I replaced the 2 pin connector in the door.

The lower A post has the 2 wires on 2 different connectors, so I’ve put them in their own new connector.

So that gets the window working as seen at the start of the video, with a little struggle at the top and 2v drop.

The relay fix at the front of the car, eliminates that.

That window’s quicker than my BMW’s now biggrin

Byker28i

33,910 posts

181 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
Ta, just wondering if to get new pins, or just replace the whole connector, but I'm worried what the state of the wire might be for reconnecting. The voltage drop measuring is a good idea, I might try that

FarmyardPants

3,650 posts

182 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
That is awesome.

Byker28i

33,910 posts

181 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
Possibly not the place for this but whilst we're taling electrics, I found http://www.pythonracing.co.uk/electrical/ saying about replacing the fusebox...


Python racing is the first company to offer a full conversion of your old style fuse board to the newer style fuse board and not just a retrofit. The Cerbera can take maximum advantage of this as it will enable the reduction of several control units from the rear of the car. Thus, the reduction of joints in the wiring loom will see a superior and more reliable system. A common issue is seeing 10v at a headlight on a Cerbera especially the age of the vehicles, thus after this conversion, those days will be gone. All of the relays will become standard automotive relays. These are time-tested in their reliability and ease of replacement. While you may already have a later style fuse board in your Cerbera, this is only a retrofit by TVR and the above conversion is still recommended for long-term trouble-free driving.

Reduced risk of fire
Reduction of parasitic draw (flat battery in days)
Brighter headlights
Easy relay change when replacement necessary
Simplified electrical system
We are so confident about the reliability of this system that we guarantee our conversion for 10 years!



Anyone had this done? Interesting they talk about voltage drops

RUSSELLM

Original Poster:

5,665 posts

211 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Ta, just wondering if to get new pins, or just replace the whole connector, but I'm worried what the state of the wire might be for reconnecting. The voltage drop measuring is a good idea, I might try that
They haven’t used any weatherproof connectors in the door, so I’d replace the connectors, rather than the pins. Plus the exposed copper on the cables, will appreciate getting cut back smile

There’s loads of slack harness in there.

Penelope Stopit

8,221 posts

73 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
RUSSELLM said:
Thanks Penelope, used your diagram too smile
You were there though, all I did was clean up around the edges

RUSSELLM

Original Poster:

5,665 posts

211 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Anyone had this done? Interesting they talk about voltage drops
Not me. A couple of things from their site though, they mention none standard relays... I haven’t seen any of them in my car. The window module as an example, has a timer in it.... If they want to replicate that, like a modern car, it’ll be a purpose built Body Control Module rather than a fuse box. Unless they’re messing about with timer module etc.


But having seen what happened when I tried that window fix from the rear of the car and barely seeing an improvement, I think I’d be rewiring the car, before looking at a new fuse box smile

Has anyone followed the battery negative lead yet, to see where it goes ? As mine has a horrible kink in it, so I’d like to replace that.

I’ll have to check the supply at my headlights, as they’ve never been great. They’ve been replaced recently, but I haven’t really used it much in the dark, to see how effective the new reflectors are.

I’ve got another door to do first though, then I’m going to get the hot and cold fans HVAC blowing a bit better.




Edited by RUSSELLM on Monday 20th July 16:14

Penelope Stopit

8,221 posts

73 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Possibly not the place for this but whilst we're taling electrics, I found http://www.pythonracing.co.uk/electrical/ saying about replacing the fusebox...


Python racing is the first company to offer a full conversion of your old style fuse board to the newer style fuse board and not just a retrofit. The Cerbera can take maximum advantage of this as it will enable the reduction of several control units from the rear of the car. Thus, the reduction of joints in the wiring loom will see a superior and more reliable system. A common issue is seeing 10v at a headlight on a Cerbera especially the age of the vehicles, thus after this conversion, those days will be gone. All of the relays will become standard automotive relays. These are time-tested in their reliability and ease of replacement. While you may already have a later style fuse board in your Cerbera, this is only a retrofit by TVR and the above conversion is still recommended for long-term trouble-free driving.

Reduced risk of fire
Reduction of parasitic draw (flat battery in days)
Brighter headlights
Easy relay change when replacement necessary
Simplified electrical system
We are so confident about the reliability of this system that we guarantee our conversion for 10 years!



Anyone had this done? Interesting they talk about voltage drops
Brings back memories https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

There was no interest, hence didn't draw the diagram

Penelope Stopit

8,221 posts

73 months

Monday 20th July 2020
quotequote all
RUSSELLM said:
But having seen what happened when I tried that window fix from the rear of the car and barely seeing an improvement, I think I’d be rewiring the car, before looking at a new fuse box smile
I agree

Fitting relays up front and ensuring the wiring is heavy enough will cure most problems

Byker28i

33,910 posts

181 months

Tuesday 21st July 2020
quotequote all
RUSSELLM said:
Has anyone followed the battery negative lead yet, to see where it goes ? As mine has a horrible kink in it, so I’d like to replace that.
Yup, another of the things I had to replace when the new engine went back in. There's two leads. The long one goes from the battery negative almost straight down and bolts to the chassis, then from there a short one runs to the engine.

I was having lots of electrical issues afterwards and found out the Indy who put the engine in had either broken or put back a broken earth cable, the long one. It had two strands left at the chassis conector but was making and unmaking a good earth as the car moved as the two broken halves touches and separated.

Byker28i

33,910 posts

181 months

Friday 31st July 2020
quotequote all
This turned out to be a very handy thread. The passenger window was fast down, slow up. 10.5v at the motor going down but only 5.5v going up.
On my car there's a different feed? Turned out to be the white plug in the inner wing just before the door harness with dirty connectors.

DuncanM

4,228 posts

243 months

Saturday 1st August 2020
quotequote all
DuncanM said:
RUSSELLM said:
Finally got round to sticking the relays in today. I haven’t tried the silicone spray trick yet, however, I don’t think there’s any need to.

I’ve replaced the inline connectors at the door, and used the same connectors for the relay fix, so I can switch back to conventional in a few seconds, if need be.

I wanted to site the relays by the door/window module in the boot, but a quick preliminary test, leads me to think the existing wiring from boot to doors, can’t carry the load. I suspect it’s under rated for a tired motor or the 24 year old cable is breaking down smile

Relays are by the HVAC module, and went through the grommet for a new positive and ground feed.

Little video with and without relays, excuse the bit n the middle where I switched connectorssmile ....

https://youtu.be/NWLsvd6idIo

From the outside, on an alarm set....

https://youtu.be/KrHV9Rvtv5w
That second video redface Great thread - thanks to ye and Penelope smile

jong1e

48 posts

94 months

Saturday 1st August 2020
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i recently added a new 35mm earth lead from my battery directly to the earth terminal in the boot my windows now are brilliant


RUSSELLM

Original Poster:

5,665 posts

211 months

Sunday 2nd August 2020
quotequote all
jong1e said:
i recently added a new 35mm earth lead from my battery directly to the earth terminal in the boot my windows now are brilliant
I think that’s a good shout.

When I was messing about with my car the other day, I ran a temporary ground to the cold and hot air fans, and got a 10% fan speed improvement smile





FarmyardPants

3,650 posts

182 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Just bumping this thread as I want to tackle my slow driver's side window soon

Byker28i

33,910 posts

181 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Mine have always been mostly dirty pins on the door plugs, either in the car of the one in the wing. probably a good place to start

FarmyardPants

3,650 posts

182 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Thanks, yes first port of call is replace the connectors with new weatherproof ones.

FarmyardPants

3,650 posts

182 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
I had a go at my driver's window this weekend.

I started with the wiring and replaced the crappy 2 pin connector which is about 40cm from the motor itself. It's tucked into the door and not obvious without some rummaging. It takes black and blue wires from the motor and turns them into yellow with green stripe and yellow with black stripe.

Next I snipped those two yellow wires from the connector behind the carpet where the door loom enters the car and gave them their own dedicated connectors.

Those two mods made a bit of difference but the window was still slow in the top half of its travel..

Next I looked at the mechanics of the window and noticed a few issues:

1. The track that lifts the window was slightly bent on the front part, so straightened that out
2. The window seems a bit too small for the spacing of the felt-lined runners. The trailing edge of the glass would lift out of the runner near the top and drag on the metal, so I lifted the front of the window to make it wider horizontally.

After a lot of jiggling of the glass and track, I have a pretty good result. For the first time in 16 years, closing the door will wind the window all the way up. Also the speed is fairly constant throughout its travel. It doesn't seem as effortless as the passenger side so I will have a look at the connectors on that side (I believe the wiring runs from passenger side to drivers side but need to look at the wiring diagram).

I also checked the earth above the fuel tank where the black boxes are. By running a cable from the battery -ve I measured 0.27 ohms resistance. I also measured the resistance of the motor itself at 0.9 ohms, which I think gives it a power of 160 watts @ 12v. So the 0.27 ohms of earth resistance seems significant, probably the electrical system as a whole would benefit from a new earth run to the back of the car.

Byker28i

33,910 posts

181 months

Yesterday (08:40)
quotequote all
FarmyardPants said:
...probably the electrical system as a whole would benefit from a new earth run to the back of the car.
Thats interesting and easy to do? What route would you take? Probably quite easy to test with a wire or two run externally initially?

RUSSELLM

Original Poster:

5,665 posts

211 months

Yesterday (11:16)
quotequote all
I ran a temporary 12v and 0v to the rear of my car, but found that the existing wiring from window module to the lower A post, couldn’t carry the load.

I suspect the cabin harness is gradually breaking down.