The market for 360s...

The market for 360s...

Author
Discussion

AdvocatusD

Original Poster:

2,277 posts

201 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
I'd been looking for 4 months for the right car, and sadly the majority of the cars I saw were misdescribed or seriously overpriced (contentious point I know, but I was being guided by a respected independant inspector re this).

Not sure why I am posting (perhaps a case of sour grapes), other than to share what I came across to perhaps warn prospective buyers that a number of the current cars on the market are pretty poor - some have been around for months. A couple of cars stand out as particularly annoying to have wasted time and money over.

I saw an a 360 that is now with a dealer (I saw it with the owner) that I had inspected. After long conversation with the owner, the upshot is that it was described as "superb" and I had it inspected (given the proximity to the PPI and distance from me) to discover it had front end damage and the interior was in bad shape. On a follow up call to both dealer and previous owner, I discovered that the car has been passed to the dealer with no mention of the faults found. In any event, the dealer didn't mention the faults to me.

There is a TDF car for sale privately which I went to see. I spoke to the owner in person (and his brother) and asked if there was "anything at all" that he would do to the car to make perfect, if he was picky. He said "not one thing".

The car's engine was in terrible shape to the extent the exhaust was BROWN with rust, not even a discoloured silver. Scratches all over and damage from water in the boot. These were points a person with the thickest of glasses could have seen, but he didn't mention them. I left politely without raising a scene, but when chased for my opinion I told them frankly that it was not as described at all and they should change the ad to reflect that. Chap said he took my points on board. Came across the car in the classifieds today as I was browsing, and it's described as needed no preparation at all and just marvellous (paraphrased). Either they've done the work that it needed (which was plenty) or it's up again for some unsuspecting sod to fall over.

The only truly, good car at a semi-sensible price I saw was a low mileage Spider at DK Engineering, but I missed the boat on that one as I really didn't want a Spider at the time.

So sadly, this has meant I have turned my attentions to another marque for this time and have put a deposit down, collecting the new baby next week. Its more expensive that a 360 would have been, but the car is mint and I hope I've got it a fair price. Pity in way, I was really looking forward to a 360 for summer.

Still not got Ferrari out of my system, so I'll be back looking at 360 CS or 458s one day - don't like 430s at all!

Edited by AdvocatusD on Thursday 17th May 17:07

wineman02

397 posts

169 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
Sorry to hear of your frustrations. I think part of the fun of Ferrari ownership is the searching for one. For me (not being mechanically) minded it is wise to build up a relationship with an excellent indie whom you can trust. You pay a bit more but it is worth it in my opinion for piece of mind. Especially if you plan to keep the car for some time.

astroarcadia

1,668 posts

170 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
What have you bought instead?

cayman-black

10,740 posts

186 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
^^^^ This what????

POORCARDEALER

8,427 posts

211 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all


So the really nice cars might not be overpriced ??

Sarnie

7,105 posts

179 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
So the really nice cars might not be overpriced ??
+1

Sounds like the OP is looking for a mint car for leggy car money.

AdvocatusD

Original Poster:

2,277 posts

201 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
POORCARDEALER said:
So the really nice cars might not be overpriced ??
+1

Sounds like the OP is looking for a mint car for leggy car money.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

JMP86

215 posts

116 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
I think the problem is everyone has a different level of expectation, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that some people genuinely don't notice these faults (obviously most do but overlook them)I looked at 6 before finding the car I ended up buying,

Usually the nicer cars tend to be around the higher end of the price range, occasionally you will find a diamond in the rough however they are few and far between, hopefully you will find the car your looking for next time around,

Schnellmann

1,893 posts

174 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
So the really nice cars might not be overpriced ??
Might be a bit harsh. I was looking last year for a mint 993 and saw quite a few examples described as "perfect" (at the very top of the market too), which were a long way off "perfect". Was on the point of giving up when stumbled across the car I bought.

Had similar problems when searching for my 360 CS. Unfortunately there are a lot of BSers out there....

astroarcadia

1,668 posts

170 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
OP, we need to know what car you did buy before this thread goes any further.

Pics also please.

matc

4,704 posts

177 months

Thursday 17th May 2012
quotequote all
astroarcadia said:
OP, we need to know what car you did buy before this thread goes any further.

Pics also please.
Yep, this.

Shame you missed out on a 360, I loved mine and would have another tomorrow!

f1ten

1,992 posts

123 months

Friday 18th May 2012
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i suspect the answer is that unless your paying £45k plus you wont get a decent 360.
Actually it sprobably better to take a high mileage one thats been properly looked after than a ratty looking low mileage car. The issue I have is I dont want an F1 gearbox and that cuts down the cars in the market substantially

JDH1

975 posts

209 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
I can understand the frustration, but a 'sensible price' is the price that cars of a particular standard sell at, rather than any subjective judgement of what you or I might think sensible. If you think all the good cars are too expensive, then that's an indication that you don't apprecaite the value of a good car. The market always dictates that. In any event, the whole subjective value judgement is pointless - there's nowt 'sensible' about the price of any Ferrari when it comes down to it.

Cactussed

5,235 posts

183 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
Something I've never been able to understand is people's used car buying expectations.

When I bought my Alpina recently, I expected it to have stone chips, maybe a few minor car park dings. Maybe some kerbing on the wheels. Certainly the odd spot of rust. It's an old car with everything that entails.

Yet when people go looking for old supercars, they seem incensed at finding stone chips. Or other signs of use. I can't see how a used car would look any way other than used. If it's a new car or close to new that you're after, then go buy a new car and pay the premium, surely?

I can't comment on the car in question or its description but 'the exhasut was brown'? Honestly?

AdvocatusD

Original Poster:

2,277 posts

201 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
Cactussed said:
Something I've never been able to understand is people's used car buying expectations.
JDH1 said:
If you think all the good cars are too expensive, then that's an indication that you don't apprecaite the value of a good car.
I really didn't think I'd need to defend myself on this thread, but here goes.

I'd like to think that I've owned, bought and sold a few cars in my time and I have realistic expectations though I do like a bargain. In addition to my own expectations, I was being guided with reference to price and condition by not one, but two respected independants (I've said this before, but it appears to have been ignored). If the quotes above are not directed at me, that's fine, but if they are, this is the position. I can also assure you my budget was adequate, I'm just not inclined to overspend whether its a burger or a Bentley, and that is entirely my perogative.

What a "good" or "sensible" price is, is to some degree subjective. I am humble enough to accept I am completely fallible and not an expert which is exactly why I paid and used two experts to advise me accordingly. I am just an enthusiast trying to enjoy the used car market.

Cactussed said:
I can't comment on the car in question or its description but 'the exhasut was brown'? Honestly?
Honestly. The picture is actually kinder than the reality was.



I'm not sure why you would chose to question me rather than trust me given I was there and given you don't know me. I can't prove that this is the car I was discussing without invading the owner's privacy (I will not do this) or that I didn't doctor the picture, but I hope that on this occassion you will accept my word.

matc said:
astroarcadia said:
OP, we need to know what car you did buy before this thread goes any further.

Pics also please.
Yep, this.
Thanks for the enthusiasm chaps. I don't want to jinx it as I lost one a few weeks ago, but promise to put a picture up as soon as I have it (Wednesday!bounce)




Edited by AdvocatusD on Friday 18th May 11:57

johnnyreggae

2,650 posts

130 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
astroarcadia said:
OP, we need to know what car you did buy before this thread goes any further.

Pics also please.
Custard time ?

CooperS

4,295 posts

189 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
We do need pictures!

With regard to the o/p i can understand why anyone would get fustrated when second hand items are described as perfect when they anything but. However if the cars in the price bracket your looking at are all coming up with issues i cant see how they higher priced cars are over priced. Surely they are priced to take into account those below them.

AdvocatusD

Original Poster:

2,277 posts

201 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
CooperS said:
However if the cars in the price bracket your looking at are all coming up with issues i cant see how they higher priced cars are over priced. Surely they are priced to take into account those below them.
Conceded, that's a good point. All I can say is that I spent 4 months and saw 11 cars (between 39k - 54k), only one of which I would have bought (and dithered too long and missed). I also missed 2 cars as they sold before I could get to them to view - they looked good and they were what I would consider a "sensible" price.

GR1FF1F

520 posts

204 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
AdvocatusD, I had a somewhat shorter search period than you, restricted myself to the top end of the range of prices you looked at, i.e. all over 50k. Ended up with a choice of three, which allowed me to decide based on gearbox and, as it turned out, colour preference - all pretty much mint condition, taking into consideration their 8-10 years vintage. TBH I declined to travel to look at cheaper cars as from past experience with other marques, there is invariably a reason. Good luck with your alternative choice and hope to see that you make it into a Ferrari at some point; I can honestly say that, a few weeks in, it's all I'd hoped for and expected.

Cheers

bromers2

1,859 posts

220 months

Friday 18th May 2012
quotequote all
A general question (not directed at anyone in particular) :

- if you spend 2 hours cleaning/polishing a exhaust does this make it a better car than one that hasn't ? (I'm for ever doing my Strad - but a lot of non-petrol heads call me sad).

(PS i know the exhasut was only one point of your concerns with the car - but all the other ones could of been addressed for a small outlay of cash - would they of made it a better car ?)