Tuscan versus 355

Tuscan versus 355

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granville

18,764 posts

230 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
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Manu, Ninja El & Mr 456 - thank you indeed!
Mmmm...
Will you each do me a quick favour - forgetting budget, just thinking pure 'oo-er!' and you can only have the ONE (not 2, like certain hedonisits!)...
WHICH ONE?
P.S. I recall test driving a 456 manual (96 model) a couple of years ago and it sounded very much like a 'Car' mag reviewer once eulogised, that is to say, "like a phalanx of longhorns announcing Caeser with satchmo exhalations!" Wow! It had more torque than the QE2 on the M-way but it felt really unsettled on the blacktop stuff - probably me being a nob BUT I had just seen Clarkson's old Top Gear review in which he claimed you could "throw into a corner with the gleeful abandon of someone who's just been granted immortatlity;" I felt strongly otherwise but then it was sheeting down. Should I have realised it's GT bias and saved that drive for a 355/360 instead? Please advise/comment. My current loon chariot is a breathed on 993TT but as I've said, the 360 felt similarly ballistic during our all too brief acquintance but can I drive it without undue Cerbera-esque worries about adhesion, etc? (And for the record, the Porkster ain't going, in case any Porsche people read this and thought I was loosing the plot. Like Mr Bulsara said, I want it all, please!)

456mgt

2,482 posts

235 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
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Only downer for me is why Ferrari went for such puny front tyres on the 360 - any informed knowledge out there?


Opinion, yes, knowledge no. I thought the same thing about those skinny front tyres, and my guess is 1) turning circle 2) pedal box offset 3) dynamics. The 360 has a great turning circle (much better than other sports cars) and if the tyres were any wider you'd have to offset the pedal box. Fatter tyres extract a price with tramlining, steering precision etc. This is all my own musing- I don't know this for a fact.

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Also, have Ferrari tempered the scuttle shake that seemed to plague the 355 Spyder on the 360?


Not noticed any on the 360; mine's stiffer than a very stiff thing on stiff pills. How stiff's your 355 Ninja?

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And finally, have any of you Ferrari owners (355s & 360s) done battle with any Japanese hardware?


Never give them the chance. Blat past -> game over Most other drivers take pains to get out of the way actually, which is a lot different to the US.

Cheers

Kevin

ninja_eli

1,521 posts

236 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
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Also, have Ferrari tempered the scuttle shake that seemed to plague the 355 Spyder on the 360?


Not noticed any on the 360; mine's stiffer than a very stiff thing on stiff pills. How stiff's your 355 Ninja?



355 very "stiff" indeed. Stiffness a very good thing I guess. Without the tonneau(sp?) cover it can make some noises, but thats just the clip bits on the locking mechanism. Really, it seems pretty stiff to me anyway, just as stiff as my other stiff car, the Supra. Which was very, very stiff. I'd say the 355 was maybe even stiffer.

At first, I thought the 360 was loads and loads quicker. Incomparable to the 355. But after watching the video, I think its down to whoever gets on the accelerator first??? Does that sound right to you Kevin, or am I kidding myself and your 360 is that much faster?

Derestricter, the 456 is super fast, in the right hands. By that I mean you need to know the car and be a good driver. Kevin scared the crap out of 4 of us but the car just dipped, tucked in, and went round like it was on rails. I saw silly indications on the speedo but maybe I was beginning to black out at that point? I didn't see indicated 140's did I?(Kilometres of course

craigw

12,248 posts

251 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
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derestrictor, can you post some more about cost & which cars you drove on the Tangerine day please?

I'm always looking for fun stuff to do with clients, am doing the supercar experience at Silverstone again in a few weeks.

456mgt

2,482 posts

235 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Manu, Ninja El & Mr 456 - thank you indeed!
Mmmm...
Will you each do me a quick favour - forgetting budget, just thinking pure 'oo-er!' and you can only have the ONE (not 2, like certain hedonisits!)...
WHICH ONE?



With a unlimited budget, it would be a tussle between a 288GTO (looks to die for) or an F50 (sound). And I suspect you would need one, an unlimited budget that is, to run either of these two beauties. Yep, premier league servicing costs where 'executive car running costs' mean it costs the same to *buy* one as to run a Ferrari like this. I'd better get back to work then...


Kevin

domster

8,428 posts

239 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
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The reason for skinny tyres on a 360 is probably handling balance above all else - it will be designed to understeer for safety, before a spirited driver balances it on the throttle and puts it into a neutral/oversteer stance.

My 964RS only has 205s on the front (255s at the rear) - fatter tyres kill steering feel, increase tramling and turning circle, and put too much grip at the front (thus inciting oversteer at the limit). Fatter tyres normally cost you more at replacement time, too

manu

768 posts

232 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
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OK - If I could have any Ferrari in the current range I'd go for a 575 Maranello. Then I'd tell HM Customs and Excise, it was my business demonstrator, claim back VAT, and from my own stock fit the following:
- Sport Test-pipes
- Tube-Only Race Exhaust
- F1 Competition Air-filters.
WHICH EQUALS ~560bhp and don't ask me about the sound

I still believe there is no subsititute for a 12 despite the fact that the 360 Modena is a more of weapon than a car (thanks Ninja!) and perhaps quicker than a 550 (but supposedly not a 575). Put simply - behind the wheel of a 550 you feel like GOD and that's that. The interior is wonderful and the engine is still the best in the world.

If I could have ANY Ferrari somewhat predictably I'd also go for the 1984 GTO, a Daytona or F50/new Ferrari "Enzo."
Scuttle shake? I've ridden in a few 355 Spyders and all of them felt rock solid - I have NEVER felt ANY scuttle shake...

Oh yeah, about racing hot-rodded Jap cars - I've seen a video where a Supra guy with 450bhp AT THE REAR WHEELS(!!) takes on a stock 550M on a rolling start from (I think) 50mph... and loses. Super-long gear ratios, torque and great aerodynamics count for a lot.... AND as was mentioned before, so does having sufficient underwear furniture.
I met a really nice Lamborghini Diablo owner (yellow Roadster) in Maranellos on Saturday (had an aftermarket UNSILENCED crossover race exhaust on his Diablo - car sounded like Satan having sex) who said he had an impromptu race with a 996 Turbo. Said he was losing till about 150mph and said he wasn't going home defeated and that, I quote, "I would rather die trying" - finally the Porsche driver bottled it at an indicated 186mph.


Manu

456mgt

2,482 posts

235 months

Wednesday 10th July 2002
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quote:

car sounded like Satan having sex


I believe the expression is 'LMFAO' Excellent Manu!

granville

18,764 posts

230 months

Thursday 11th July 2002
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quote:

I met a really nice Lamborghini Diablo owner (yellow Roadster) in Maranellos on Saturday (had an aftermarket UNSILENCED crossover race exhaust on his Diablo - car sounded like Satan having sex) who said he had an impromptu race with a 996 Turbo. Said he was losing till about 150mph and said he wasn't going home defeated and that, I quote, "I would rather die trying" - finally the Porsche driver bottled it at an indicated 186mph.

Manu - superb - just the kind of 'real life on the road' Canon/Gumball cavalierism that makes our kin so entertaining!
Thanks for all your info on 'life with Enzo's kit' and I'm mighty impressed by your collective passion - clearly the very essence of this ultra brand. Taking EVERYTHING into account and my admittedly limited experience of the brand I think the 360 tips it for me as a driving orgasm: but I still think the 355 is FRACTIONALLY more appealing visually purely because it LOOKS (IMHO) a little happier on it's tyres...
Take on board the point re. the 456 - everything I've heard/read/seen supports your rave opinion so I'll bow to your collective experiences on that one (still, strange that my local official dealer is rather down on the 456 - maybe making unfair comparisons with the 550/575 models? - BTW, this sounds like a 'must drive' experience!)
And Manu, I come back to that Diablo tale: just great. I've come seriously close to Satanic fraternization on 3 occasions in recent years (but common sense and the old 993TT most recently, have all conspired to hinder progress...) - but what do you guys actually think of Maranello's upstart neighbour's finest and have any of you ever been seduced? I'm sure the Murkywhatsit is a dynamic breakthrough but it's TOO Audi for me: Countachs and Diablos - experiences, stories & opinions please!
Also Mike W - the Tangerine thing: I won't be alone amongst PHers in this area. I've done 2 days with this mob in sunny Leicestershire (Prestwold Hall, lovely area too). First the 'Supercar Challenge' which involved (once you've got through the waiting 'cos these things are always quite popular) a Diablo SV, Dodge Viper, Porsche 968 (should've been a 911SC but someone forgot the laws of physics not long previously!), a Jaguar XKR Convertible, Audi TT {I must say, VERY impressive, despie thw wild accusations of 'trinket-dom' from all quarters and something else I can't recall. There's all sorts of extras you can go for, i.e. being taken round the track (which is on a disused WWII runway) sideways by various instructors which generally cost about 40 for 3 laps. The day itself was about 399 for the basic package with luch etc. Second time and only a couple of months ago I did the 'Ferrari Challenge' which was a much longer day and the venue has massively improved facilities - these bods are obvioulsy raking in the cash now and although there is more to do, SOME of the staff have become very French in their attitude to the people paying THEIR wages, if you get my drift. Drove a 328 and 360 which was worth the day alone but also a few extra laps in an Exige (Weehaargh!) and a Maser 3200GT (WHAT a monster! - I never realised what a handful this pyscho was...) and again, something else I can't remember. There was supposed to be an option of piloting a red head too but I don't think she wanted to play that day. Price wise I think the Ferrari day on it's own was in the region of 199 but my 399 excursion included an afternoon's 'Rally Experience' which was a hoot also. So good stuff, I'd say and well worth a Company day out. Alternatively, just see if Mr. 456 will let you all go and sit in his garage for an afternoon dribbling over his machinery!

domster

8,428 posts

239 months

Thursday 11th July 2002
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After all that playtime on track, I think the only derestrictor must be to your overdraft limit

Sounds like you've had some fun. Must say that those days kind of appealed, but I've already driven a few of the cars they offer for free, so perhaps begrudge shelling out for them...

Cheers
Domster

manu

768 posts

232 months

Thursday 11th July 2002
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Derestrictor,
I never cared for Lamborghinis - I'm an out and out Ferrari man.....BUT...
I was randomly walking past some flash (I can't get in) London club and I heard rolling thunder.... A blue Lamborghini Diablo 6.0.. It was so loud, so wide, so low and when the scissor doors came up I almost ...... erm... I saw one more recently and I was not quite so overwhelmed but I DO love them.
Anyhow....I need to drive the new ones because the old 2wd ones are scary and you literally can't see anything out of them. Nonetheless they all look totally wild and there are only 3 other cars in the world with that kind of presence - F50/F40/TR.
I've warmed to them a lot and would add an Orange Diablo GT to my ideal garage.
Yeah righty!
A few of us pistonheads are driving the new Murcielago in a few weeks and we'll get back to you with full driving impression.

granville

18,764 posts

230 months

Thursday 11th July 2002
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Manu - July's calender picture is just such a thing: the tangerine orange GT version. It is an utterly, utterly wondrous object of pure, unadulterated, automotive lust.
You mentioned hearing thunder that time: when I went for a test drive in an orange SV (R6 WOW, no less) down at H.R.Owen a bit back, when Jason Barker (Mr.Lambo UK by the looks of things) EXPLODED the thing into life I literally spent 5 minutes giggling like an imbecile.
It will be very interesting to see what you guys think of the Audified Murkybla-blah, following your test runs! Jammy sods! For me, the real zenith of four-wheeled desire. Pure magic.

granville

18,764 posts

230 months

Monday 15th July 2002
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William Loughran's website currently has a rather high res set of images of a number of pant-wetting motors.
In amongst is a 360 rag top, side profile in al fresco mode.
I suggest you all have a gander.

superlightr

11,398 posts

232 months

Sunday 28th July 2002
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Have a go in a Caterham Superlight R or R500,
Power, cornering, not many around, and still a wow factor. A lot cheaper.

May not be what your after but have a drive and you may change your mind or even still go for the 355 AND a Superlight R. !!

But whatever car you have, if you are enthusiastic about it, others will be as well and you meet lots of really nice people with good ideas.

(ps please dont be horrible to Solicitors and Estate agents as some can be really nice people too !!)


manu

768 posts

232 months

Monday 29th July 2002
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A Caterham Superlight R..... is ANOTHER car that I would dearly love to own.

I've never driven one (or ridden one) but from what I've read and heard it's another mad bad wild car with way more power that is wholly sane.

456mgt

2,482 posts

235 months

Monday 29th July 2002
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Used to have a Superlight R then sold it to make garage space for the 360. It's just so damn quick, and you'd love the crackling & popping on the overun Manu. If I arrived at the outskirts of my village doing about 60mph in top, then dropped it into 3rd, the overun would last easily all the way to my house . Gorgeous.

456mgt

2,482 posts

235 months

Monday 29th July 2002
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And while I remember, the bloke who bought my SLR rang me a couple of days afterwards. Thought he was going to have a go about some fault that had materialised, but no, he was just so amazed by it and wanted to talk to someone who'd understand! Has that effect on most petrol heads.

granville

18,764 posts

230 months

Monday 29th July 2002
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Oh no, R500 talk and reviews...ridiculous power to weight ratio...bang, crackle, pop, dribble...mind-numbingly fast...redefining steering response...oversteer heaven...aaaaaaAAAArgH!!!
Begone, Satan!

Roadrunner

2,690 posts

236 months

Monday 29th July 2002
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A 355 looks so good for 65 odd gee gees. It's almost rude not to get one really. Hearing you guy's lavish praise on the engine reminds me of some months ago - screaming 355 reverberating off the city buildings. Pure ecstacy. The cold wake up call comes in the shape of scary repair bills though. Running costs of 3k a year arn't too bad I suppose. The thing is I bet it doesn't end there! I can imagine I'd be lumbered with an unexpected 10k bill for one thing or another. Even if it were cosseted as a second warm weather car.

Also, some have mentioned how intoxicating the R500's engine is. Isn't this a K series 1.8? - the same unit used in the exige? If not, what is it, or what's different about it?

domster

8,428 posts

239 months

Monday 29th July 2002
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The R500 K-series is indeed a 1.8, similar to that in the Elise. The difference is that the R500 engine produces 230bhp, and the Elise/Exige lump puts out a maximum of 190bhp in Elise Sport guise. This is the same VHPD lump (Very High Performance Derivative) K series engine that Caterham chuck in the Superlight R.

Back to the R500 motor. This is a VVHPD engine, in effect, running on roller barrel throttle bodies instead of butterflies, and with all sorts of trick top end and bottom end mods. It is made and developed by the K-series engine specialists Minister, AFAIK. The big problem is it needs rebuilding every year - I kid you not - a rebuild takes place instead of a major service.

For 'day to day use' get the VHPD engined Superlight R that delivers 190bhp without the prospect of an engine rebuild, although some have been known to drink oil at an alarming rate. Get a good one and you'll be over the moon.

The only thing that will nail an R500 is a Radical SR3, IMHO.