Lamborghini Murcielago

Lamborghini Murcielago

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manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

233 months

Tuesday 30th July 2002
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Well here the driving impressions guys:

Getting into the car is joke - headbutting the scissor door is NOT - PERIOD.

The interior is lame - maybe its Audi - maybe it's just plain dull/crap/boring- ESPECIALLY up against the 575/550 which is the best interior of any car in the world.

Styling - the Diablo is a much much cooler car to look at and sit in than the Murcielago. If you're going to build a wild car then don't compromise. The rear end of this car looks unresolved and just not satisfying and I get more looks from passers-by in a F355 than I do in this - Looks better than in pictures - but still no match for the delicate presence and CLASS of any modern Ferrari. For the poseurs - a 360 turns more heads. The only colour to get this car in is black IMO.

Driving the car is EASY and I mean - VERY easy - almost to a fault. The gearchange is less like a gearchange and more like a satisfaction-less switch. The clutch is sooo overassisted that you cannot feel the point of engagement and a Volvo sedans is heavier - annoyingly light.

You still can't see much in the car. Nothing at all about the front end bonnet and nothing much from the rear view mirror although the side mirrors work fine.

The car shrinks around you A LOT - the width is not an issue such is the ease with which the car can be driven....

Power - only felt as fast as a 550M - the extra on-paper grunt accounted for NOTHING from the drivers seat - no big deal. Well weighted brakes - nice steering - but a VERY laggy (electronically controlled) throttle which made it impossible to pull away without over revving - (I stalled it 3 times trying to be delicate). The instrument binnacle wasn't working when the demonstrator was out, making life harder still.

Cannot comment on cornering ability - no chance to judge. Others there with me said it may still be subject to lift off oversteer like old Lambos.

Add to this a salesman that was sufficiently arrogant to question my integrity when I couldn't fly-off the fly-off handbrake........ He had been very helpful up to this point but then turned nasty.
I only just controlled myself.

I'm no journalist but if I want a Lamborghini I'll get a Diablo 6.0 or a GT. More importantly I've realised I'm a Ferrari man through and through. I'm not old so the 575M is not a "mature" choice - it's simply the best production car in the world at the moment and that's that. The Ferrari 575M is vastly superior - you sit like a man in it, not a dog - it's sweeter - and as Jammy put it, the Ferraris are SUBLIME, beautiful, classy, - not wild - the 575M is the last word in CARS - not spaceships.
Offered a 360 vs Murcielago - I'd still take the V8 Ferrari.

For the benefit of those reading, these are just my opinions and not of anyone else that was present with me.

Cheers Manu

>>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 30th July 16:26

>>> Edited by manu on Wednesday 31st July 10:34

scruff400

3,757 posts

231 months

Tuesday 30th July 2002
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So just to clarify:

Do you like it?

ajaym

188 posts

232 months

Tuesday 30th July 2002
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I am in full agreement with Manu on this one. The Murceliago made little or no impression on me. I was hoping to walk away from the test drive thinking 'Damn I've got to have one' instead I walked away thinking 'No way am I going to have one'.

With regards to:
1. Styling- Theres a thin line between being drop dead outlandish and getting it wrong completely. IMO Lambo are awarded the latter. The rear end is down right ugly (Jammy I think your of the same opinion right?)The car is too rounded on the rear quarter.

2. Interior- shite. Even the Diablo is leagues ahead on this front. The interior is well put together but lacks that 'I love sitting in this' appeal. Impression- suspiciously Audi to me.

3. Driving- Seating is a strong point on the car and the car does have the power, but you do not feel at one with the Lambo as you do with a Ferrari. Gear change a doddle, its more switch like than a click-clunk change. Visability poor, rear view-no chance.

To conclude. The appeal (or lack of) of the Lambo was not helped by a Salesman who was totally uninterested when I got into the car, gave poor replies to my questions and his idea of a test drive was a drive around the block lasting five minutes. Me, buy a car from you sir-no chance. Unlikely as it is that I decided to buy one I wouldn't buy a car from this dealer if he was the only one in the UK-oh he is!-then I'll go all the way to the factory to get one.

575 vs the Murceliago, 575 wins on all counts above. My ideal garage used to be 575, 288gto, F40 and a Lambo now its 575, F40 and 288gto. I dont need or want anything else. Yes, driving the Lambo has confirmed it - I am a Ferrari man through and through.

>> Edited by ajaym on Tuesday 30th July 16:55

456mgt

2,488 posts

236 months

Tuesday 30th July 2002
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Christ you got that up quickly guys! Agree with a lot that you've said, as you know, though I'm not as negative. My impressions:

Styling
I think this is a love it or hate it car. Definitely works best in dark blue or black. What brought it home to me was going over to look at the 456M and 575MM after spending 20 mins looking over the Murcielagos. In comparison the Ferrari's just oozed class & elegance; a grown-ups car (notice I didn't say old man!).

Seeing the Murcielago parked up next to the Diablo VT for washing illustrated how the Diablo is a more flowing design.

Interior
Very clean, basic design. Meatiness of gear lever belies ease of changing gear, which as Manu said, is very easy indeed. Gear lever is about an inch too long (high) which otherwise would be level with your arm resting on the armrest. Having said that,it hardly shouts 'supercar'and didn't feel that special a place to be in. It's good, it's just not great. The 575 is in a different league. Moreover, I didn't think I had that fat an arse, but those seats really hugged my hips. This is probably a 'pulling' feature.....

Handling & performance
Christ- this is one grunty motor. Power delivery feels similar to 550 but not as snappy as the 360, though on paper the Murcielago should smoke both. Rev counter was not working so difficult to assess. Felt like power was chiming in at ca. 4K. Took it up to the rev limiter once and it sounded marvellous at the higher revs.

Never really pushed it around a corner, but I swear you could feel the torque switching between the wheels, though this could be my imagination. Really did feel like the cornering balance was changing *within* the corner. One thing they have sorted out is the damping, which is exemplary.

Overall, this car felt pretty normal to drive as Manu said. Steering, clutch & brakes all felt well sorted. No real supercar cues other than the engine, and the throb from the drivetrain transmitted through your seat back. Particularly impressive was the heat management- stuck in traffic the water and oil temperatures didn't budge at all. Ferrari could learn from this.

I now understand the expression 'shrinks around you', because this car does. Amazingly manageable in tight spots and heavy London traffic. The most impressive thing was when I had to go onto the pavement to get around a truck- it worked! Still not quite sure how we managed it.

Overall, this comes across as a well sorted car. I just think that Ferrari do it better in pretty much all areas: prefer the exterior styling, enjoy driving them and they let you know you're in something special without being intimidating or difficult to drive.

Fun day though- we'll have to do this one again too. Vanquish?

>> Edited by 456mgt on Tuesday 30th July 17:26

Roadrunner

2,690 posts

237 months

Tuesday 30th July 2002
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I don't know why anyone would want anything more than a 355 / 360. The lighter Ferrari's are so damn sexy. I guess a certain amount of it comes down to displaying wealth, rather than pure driving. But what the hell do I know?

domster

8,428 posts

240 months

Tuesday 30th July 2002
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Anyone driven an F40? Now that's something I'd own after my next car (355 or Ultima, when and if I get bored of the 911RS) if I was loaded and had Murci money to spend.

456mgt

2,488 posts

236 months

Tuesday 30th July 2002
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quote:

Anyone driven an F40? Now that's something I'd own after my next car (355 or Ultima, when and if I get bored of the 911RS) if I was loaded and had Murci money to spend.



Good call Domster & Manu made the same point. Not driven one yet but I suspect I would like it listening to friends who own them.

craig

1,171 posts

254 months

Wednesday 31st July 2002
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Interesting to hear your thoughts on the Murcielago. I currently run a Diablo 2wd but have not had the chance to try out the Murcielago yet.
I was not keen on the styling either but agree it looks better in the flesh. Saw one at Le Mans in dark blue but prefer the orange (why be subtle?!).
I'm a bit of a Lambo fan at heart even though I recently bought a 355. It's interesting to compare the Ferrari and Lambo as they are so different to drive. The Ferrari is way easier to drive (clutch, gearbox, visibility) but does not have the low down grunt of the Lambo. It's also on standard exhaust which is way too quiet (changing to a Tubi soon).
The build quality on the 355 is also superior but I think the later 6.0 Diablo is up to scratch here.
My ideal garage would be a Diablo 6.0, Countach LP400 and an F40.





manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

233 months

Wednesday 31st July 2002
quotequote all
I agree about subtlety - it appear Audi may have compromised Lamborghini a little - you don't buy ANY supercar to be subtle so why tone down the shape of the new model...
Don't get me wrong the car is still wild and crazy but its missing that feeling that you get with the Diablo - the Diablo is MAD - the Murcielago is not.


Craig - I'll do you the best price in the UK for your Tubi F355 - We've got one in stock and sound files too. (can also do a Hamann if you want a different sound). Soz about the plug fellas.
manu@scuderiasystems.com


>> Edited by manu on Wednesday 31st July 11:44

granville

18,764 posts

231 months

Wednesday 31st July 2002
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Ajay, Manu, 456mgt - congrats on (probably) being the first PHers to experience the new Audi, sorry, Lambo.

I must say, I'm a little saddened by the wholesale world takeover by VAG - I don't mind platform sharing between family saloons but there's a sneaking suspicion that this brand homogenisation is affecting the wrong products (unlike some who slate Porsche for the Cayenne, I would be more sympathetic to their cause if this mega SUV did not share it's floorplan with common or garden Land/Range Rovers and the forthcoming VW Toureg): if a Lamborghini isn't 100% Lamborghini (I don't mind Audi's QC supervision, which makes eminent sense) then the unique mix which makes it so potent as a hand crafted, bespoke hyper purchase in the first place is diluted as an experience, as indicated by the uninspiring 'corporateness' of the interior. Indeed, back on the Diablo GT I was forming doubts whenI saw the front wheel arch on that car - a stylistic cue straight from Audi's very own TT. Oh dear.

456mgt, you mention delights nevertheless, when giving the engine it's head but if you guys have given me the impression of an overly sanitized development.

I still lust after the Diablo (and Countach for that matter) but as the years progress the more mature allure of Maranello grows stronger.

BTW, who did you all drive the thing with - your experiences sounds alarmingly familiar?

manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

233 months

Wednesday 31st July 2002
quotequote all
Derestrictor - we all tried the car together ('cos we're all thinking about a 575MM).
I'd prefer to be discreet given the comments I've made so send me an email and I'll let you know.

manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

233 months

Friday 2nd August 2002
quotequote all
what irony - I never see a Murcielago then test drive one and now I see two in a matter of hours from each other.- one orange one, on the way back from work down Egham by pass, and one black one down the A40 on the way in this morning......

cotty

36,193 posts

254 months

Wednesday 7th August 2002
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quote:

Derestrictor - we all tried the car together ('cos we're all thinking about a 575MM).
I'd prefer to be discreet given the comments I've made so send me an email and I'll let you know.



I have never driven a rari and probably never will but from what I read in EVO they think the 575 has lost its way a bit from the its predeser? I love the shape and the front engine rear wheel drive.

Lambo merci looks nice not as outrageous at a countach, but I like the lines and as mentioned earlier must be in the tango orange.

granville

18,764 posts

231 months

Thursday 8th August 2002
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Just on the subject of that recent EVO hyper car test and such review based banter generally: what a load of garbage!
It really must irritate manufacturers and owners alike when they read about the 575M's apparent new found suspension a la Lincoln Continental! Please, how the hell can they seriously conclude that in this rarified atmosphere the Aston (awesome though it is) 'out-dynamics' the Ferrari?
I'm quite sure that what happens on these reviews is that they get so carried away with a short period of frenzied fallacism that genuine objectivity goes south.
I'm sure that EVO, CAR and AutoCar reviewers are amongst the best in the business but how many times does day to day reality - even with cars like these - mirror reality?
On this very thread, fellow PHers in this hyper car market who own/have owned exotica of this calibre have fundamentally disagreed with the Murcielago v 575 verdict, for example.
I suspect that a few seconds of the Lamborghini at 7000rpm may form the basis of the review here - after all, how many slightly unenthusiastic reviews have there been elsewhere? Quite a few, I recall.
All things are relative of course and these are all pure fantasy cars for the most part - I'm just being an objectionable sod today but I reckon even so the EVO review was not 100% on form in this conclusion.
What dost reckon, eh?

trefor

14,402 posts

253 months

Thursday 8th August 2002
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I reckon any review needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I saw Clarkson on Top Gear Gti the other evening - he was driving the (then, in a 1995 flashback) new MGF and loving every minute of it, carping on about the handling and the steering. I bet he wouldn't say that now - he'd say what a HOS it is just to be controversial and get people to listen to/watch his shows. I've nothing against Jeremy Clarkson, I quite like the guy, but you need to realise that they may declare the Fiat Srada a great car one day and it falls to bits the next (god forbid).

Trefor/.

P.S. I don't like the MGF myself BTW but have nothing against the poor little car.

manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

233 months

Friday 9th August 2002
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Derestrictor - (as the Americans would say) I feel ya buddy....

Guys here' my view - it is something 456GT told me and it does make sense - "who cares what the journalists think?" Ultimately - it is the punter that buys the car - for him/her self. If they don't like the 575M - I don't care because I still love it (must add I haven't driven it yet).
TO ME (Me being the operative word) the Murcielago was a let down - on paper the car comes across as the ultimate - but when I got there..... hmmm, I'm not so sure.

They drive the cars for two days on "bombing roads" out in the middle of nowhere and then report their finds - GREAT. I drove the Lambo up the A40 towards Sheperds Bush..... And to be quite honest althought the grunt was VERY serious, I wasn't crying tears of happiness at the end of the drive.
The Lambo was missing something I couldn't put my finger on - (is it slightly Audified - synthetic...hmmm dunno). But give me the 550 back anyday.

Trefor - you're absolutely right of course too. I quite like Jeremy Clarkson very non PC.

Jay_Z

222 posts

231 months

Friday 9th August 2002
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To be honest with you - I don't know why EVO bother with tests like these.

Each of the four cars demands respect PERIOD!!!, and IMO there is no loser or winner here.

Hell, I'd give my right testie for any of them and still be a happy man.

The problem is: Each of these cars appeals to different people. Somebody who buys a 575 would probably think the Lambo is dreadful. Likewise, somebody who buys a Lambo would probably think the 575 was soft. (No offense to anyone who owns any of the above BTW)

WHO CARES? Not me that's for sure. Like I said before. They ALL demand respect !!!!!

Just thought I'd add my 2p worth for the record.

Anjum

1,605 posts

254 months

Friday 23rd August 2002
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Hi

I'm not sure if I totally agree with all comments detiled here. I believe that the Murci is a step in the right direction (a la 360M) - where a car has become usable on a day to day basis. I currently drive the only 2WD 6.0 in the UK. My previous car was a 98R SV, and previous to that was a 550M (amongst many others). In all three cars I racked up approaching 30K miles in approx 2 years.

They are ALL great cars - for different reasons!

The Murci, I agree has been 'sanitised' - but that is why they will sell more Murci's than Diablo's. I personally think that the 360 is even easier to drive - but every claims that its the best blah blah blah....

I believe the 550 was a great car for crossing Europe in - but suffered around track days (as HR Owen will testify) - but then again - was it designed to do this? I Suspect not.

The Murci illustrates a new era for Lamborghini. For the record - I have put my order on hold - I too want a car that is more extreme - I have asked for a 2WD edition - the factory haven't agreed to do this yet - but will soon, I'm sure!

I love ALL Ferraris (because they are just that) - and the same goes with Lamborghini's too - thank god that they're still here and that the anti-fun brigade have not had too great an impact.

Try driving any of the above mentioned car - I mean really pushing yourself to your limits (Because, I suspect you'll reach those way before you hit the cars limits) and you'll notice how rewarding both marques are - possibly for different reasons - or maybe because they are just special.....

granville

18,764 posts

231 months

Friday 23rd August 2002
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quote:

- I have put my order on hold - I too want a car that is more extreme - I have asked for a 2WD edition - the factory haven't agreed to do this yet - but will soon, I'm sure!



Anjum for Transport Minister, anyone?

Sensible people with sensible polices for a happier Britain. And what could be more sensible than a slice of Bologna flying up the M6 at 2AM at 180mph?

Marvellous.

manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

233 months

Friday 23rd August 2002
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2WD Diablo 6.0!!!!!!!!!!! - FCUKING HELL!!!! - nice one!!!!
Anjum - how in Gods name did you convince the boys at Sant Agata (I know the spelling is wrong but I can't be bothered) to do that.

Derestrictor - I with you on this one - Marvellous indeed!!!


>> Edited by manu on Friday 23 August 19:53