Do you/Can you, really enjoy DRIVING your supercar anymore?

Do you/Can you, really enjoy DRIVING your supercar anymore?

Author
Discussion

br d

7,435 posts

178 months

Wednesday 6th June 2018
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andrew said:
Turbo cab said:
TGETV said:
Could be worse; could be a 51 year old regional sales manager for Kia.
Edited for accuracy.
rofl
Seriously though, is TGE any better than RL as a representation of Supercar ownership?

Turbo cab

1,352 posts

184 months

Wednesday 6th June 2018
quotequote all
br d said:
Seriously though, is TGE any better than RL as a representation of Supercar ownership?
He's certainly a better representation of how to conduct yourself on an internet forum.

Further more, a better representation of how to just conduct yourself as a person, Especially when you've been fortunate in life to be able to afford these amazing cars - no matter how you've acquired them.

br d

7,435 posts

178 months

Wednesday 6th June 2018
quotequote all
Turbo cab said:
br d said:
Seriously though, is TGE any better than RL as a representation of Supercar ownership?
He's certainly a better representation of how to conduct yourself on an internet forum.

Further more, a better representation of how to just conduct yourself as a person, Especially when you've been fortunate in life to be able to afford these amazing cars - no matter how you've acquired them.
Respectively TC, I disagree.

Coming across as a tt on a backwater forum (which PH Supercars undoubtedly is) will never have the same impact as a regularly watched Youtube channel. Horses for courses.

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

122 months

Wednesday 6th June 2018
quotequote all
Turbo cab said:
Edited for accuracy.
FACTUALLY WRONG on 2 accounts but sadly nothing you spout is factually accurate

James_B

8,394 posts

209 months

Wednesday 6th June 2018
quotequote all
Pioneer said:
"My starting this topic might seem like a 'wind-up ' exercise , but I started it because I genuinely think that an era is coming to an end , and that it might be sensible to acknowledge this ."
Since you have ignored all responses that disagreed with you I assume you have a supercar (or had) and no longer enjoy driving it?

Or do you not, and are just trying to find a reason why that is the right decision?

I drove my little lad to Hamlets the other week, to get a new toy. I chose to take the R8 Plus, and enjoyed every minute in it.

Behemoth

2,079 posts

83 months

Wednesday 6th June 2018
quotequote all
Andy-6ufnp said:
I just think everyone whose got one of these has missed a big trick. I've got an Alfa 4C, it's small, it's nimble, it's very quick, it sounds (for a 4 cylinder turbo) brilliant and best of all it's an absolute hoot to drive, a real event every time I go anywhere. It's a whole lot less frustrating to drive than a proper supercar as you can work it hard, rev it out without doing massively silly speeds and generally feel like your getting something back from the car rather than cruising around being unable to give your car the beans.One a Euro trip last year I could'nt have gone any faster in reality than a Ferrari or whatever but I bet you I was having the best fun.
I genuinely think that many people miss a trick, like Colin Chapman was ramming down our throats so many years ago, it's lightness that counts not horsepower or street cred.
If you are a true petrolhead you want to be able to wring out your car on a regular basis without becoming an outcast through silly speeds, you get that from cars similar to mine, like Elises etc. They are the true drivers cars not the big HP super cars being touted these days.
This. The most fun to be had on the road in a recent car has to be via one of these lightweights. 4C, Atom, Caterham, Elise etc. If I had more garage space, I'd get a 4C. It has a carbon tub, too, made in Langley Mill.

Pioneer

964 posts

83 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
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James_B said:
Pioneer said:
"My starting this topic might seem like a 'wind-up ' exercise , but I started it because I genuinely think that an era is coming to an end , and that it might be sensible to acknowledge this ."
Since you have ignored all responses that disagreed with you I assume you have a supercar (or had) and no longer enjoy driving it?

Or do you not, and are just trying to find a reason why that is the right decision?

I drove my little lad to Hamlets the other week, to get a new toy. I chose to take the R8 Plus, and enjoyed every minute in it.
I think you'll find it wasn't me that said that smile But as it happens, for a different reason already mentioned I think the era is slowly coming to an end. I don't think it will effect R8's though.

murphyaj

289 posts

27 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
James_B said:
Pioneer said:
"My starting this topic might seem like a 'wind-up ' exercise , but I started it because I genuinely think that an era is coming to an end , and that it might be sensible to acknowledge this ."
Since you have ignored all responses that disagreed with you I assume you have a supercar (or had) and no longer enjoy driving it?

Or do you not, and are just trying to find a reason why that is the right decision?

I drove my little lad to Hamlets the other week, to get a new toy. I chose to take the R8 Plus, and enjoyed every minute in it.
I believe the OP has previously had a Countach and a Murcielago Roadster, and is currently writing a book on the history of the Murcielago.

TGETV

390 posts

40 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
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Please stop worrying about me. Myself & my SV are fine. Think you've forgotten you only see 10 mins & 3 seconds of what I CHOOSE you to see, and is the easiest drivel for me to churn out on a weekend afternoon to grow my 'channel', (read business).
If I did rag the arse off my cars, which I don't, would I broadcast it to over a million people a month to gawp at?
The numbers for what you mock me doing speak for themselves. I actually took my 911T, which I still have, to the Col De Turini to have some fun, but it flopped Youtube wise.

You carry on thinking you're a better supercar owner/human than anyone that doesn't boast about doing 9834 trackdays a month & behaving like Chris Harris without the skill. People are free to enjoy their hard earned possessions however they want, even if that's coming down to the garage just to polish & look at their pride and joy. I am on board with anyone that has a passion for cars and doesn't have an attitude like yours or some of the other berks on this forum.

Sanctimonius helmet.


RamboLambo said:
Lol.

If you want to park your car up in disabled and electric charging spaces in central London posing and playing the big I AM whilst making a video for #Youtubecash that's up to you TBH.

That said You put yourself out there to be shot at whilst making money so man up and take it on the chin. Its the tinternet.

Just a shame you don't really drive any of your cars properly or produce anything but video drivel

sardis

193 posts

128 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
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Well, in a vague attempt to get back on topic, albeit the asides are amusing, yes you can. I manage to derive as much pleasure from a gentle tootle over to Whitby for fish and chips, as I do driving 10 mile circuits for sporting bears or a 17 mile thrash down the Helmsley TT.

I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the view that you have to be driving flat out all the time, or be on a track, to be somehow a 'real driver', willy waggling nonsense to be honest. Yes, I have driven on circuits, including Imola, but its not the be all and end all of driving experiences.

Likewise, I have owned both old skool and modern supercars, and whilst I thoroughly enjoyed the balance of my 328 I wouldn't trade back to it, although it would be great to add to a collection.

I guess I am lucky in living in N. Yorkshire region there are plenty of lovely roads to chose from that are both lightly trafficked and scenic at the same time allowing the opportunity to enjoy your car to the full.

TGETV has also touched on an important point, I do love simply lifting up the garage door and realising that I actually own this beautiful piece of machinery and I can chose to take it for a drive or stick it on the driveway and polish the nuts off it, both perfectly valid uses to me.

So I guess I should end with the usual caveats, these are my opinions and no more, or no less valid than all the other contributors to this thread. What I would say is please enjoy your supercar in whatever way you wish, they are always a delight to see out on the road. driving

Behemoth

2,079 posts

83 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
sardis said:
I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the view that you have to be driving flat out all the time, or be on a track, to be somehow a 'real driver', willy waggling nonsense to be honest. Yes, I have driven on circuits, including Imola, but its not the be all and end all of driving experiences.
Nobody was suggesting you have to drive flat out all the time to enjoy a performance car. The trouble is hitting national speed limits whilst still in 2nd gear.

The big negative is being unable to explore the full range engines that love hitting 7000, 8000 revs. Modern supercar manufacturers employ audio engineers to try and maximise customer thrills, but let's be honest: short shifting is dull.

sardis

193 posts

128 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
As I said these are just my takes. However, I do see your point, but the V10 is my favourite because I love the range and variety of sounds, from a bellow at 2000rpm right through to 8000+. To be honest I sometimes do chose a higher gear to listen to that range from low down. I was fairly careful not to mention NSL's....As far as I know they don't pipe anything into the car and with a spyder that's irrelevant anyway, but I do understand some of the overrun crackles, especially in sport or corsa may be manufactured, but wonderfully so.
PS my 328 had the factory sports exhaust so nothing is truly new!

Edited by sardis on Thursday 7th June 15:20

355fiorano

357 posts

194 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
I think the basic message that is coming though is that, at least on this forum, the OP's hypothesis does not hold.

I enjoy driving my cars at any speed and at any opportunity I get. Speed is not a function of enjoyment and neither is enjoyment reserved only when you are at limits of the cars capabilities. If I was driving at 30mph I would certainly enjoy driving a Ferrari a million times more vs a Micra ... call me weird wink

The same can be said for other things, like middle aged men buying carbon fiber bikes to exercise on Sundays for example.

As nearly every car manufactured today can break the upper speed limit of all restricted speed road and most people don't even get close to the limits of their cars capabilities, in a world that where driving enjoyment is proportional to speed and/or cars capabilities, nobody in the world would enjoy driving.

I do share the point however that it is and ever increasing pain to drive at all with all the roadworks, speed traps, unrealistic speed limits set based on revenue generation etc ... but I'd still rather drive than take any other form of transport when possible.

Never you mind

1,504 posts

64 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
Behemoth said:
Nobody was suggesting you have to drive flat out all the time to enjoy a performance car. The trouble is hitting national speed limits whilst still in 2nd gear.

The big negative is being unable to explore the full range engines that love hitting 7000, 8000 revs. Modern supercar manufacturers employ audio engineers to try and maximise customer thrills, but let's be honest: short shifting is dull.
Hitting NSL in 2nd gives you the 8K rev noise.

I love sitting in 6th at low revs and then putting my foot to the floor to get the deep bellow then a roar. All adds to the pleasure of ownership.


Behemoth

2,079 posts

83 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
Never you mind said:
Hitting NSL in 2nd gives you the 8K rev noise.
Punching up through the gears to 2nd doesn't really do it for me hehe

carspath

Original Poster:

573 posts

129 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
Hello again everyone , and thank you for all your responses.
The day and afternoon jobs have kept me off all fora for the last 24 hours , but its great to be back onto this one


I spend too much time on Pistonheads , because I genuinely believe that its just about the best multi-marque discussion area available , and I think that we can contribute towards the next evolution of the supercar , if only we could face up to some pretty unsavoury realities , and express ourselves coherently to the manufacturers with one voice .


I am an internal combustion man with a love for high revving natural aspirated engines , but like it or not , the truth is that we are going to have to accept forced induction (already here) , hybrid technology , full electrification and maybe even the Hydrogen fuel cell , in our lifetimes .

I was very specific in my opening question , and highlighted the word DRIVING in bold.


I entirely accept that there are many , many ways in which one can enjoy a supercar --- hand washing it oneself ( I've never let a detailer near any one of my cars , although I have absolutely no doubt that they would do an immensely better job than me ) , polishing it , checking the engine oil and coolant levels and the tyre pressures , just looking at it , writing about it on PH or other platforms, etc, etc.


I am probably more guilty than most , of doing too much of all of the above , mainly because I just enjoy doing all that is listed above , and what's the harm in that ?

But what is more troubling is that I am now finding that I am getting an increasing proportion of pleasure from my cars , from the activities above , rather than from driving them .
And that surely is a trend in the wrong direction .

Which then begs the question of why this trend is there , and what can be done to reverse it , or at least slow it down .


The trend is there because it is just a lot less enjoyable driving today than it was 20 years ago , and this is partly due to road and societal conditions , which we cannot realistically cannot do anything about , and partly due to the types of cars that are currently available , the off-spring of which we do , as consumers , have some influence over .


More than a few of you have stated that you enjoy your classics .
Well , I couldn't agree more . I drive a 140,000mile , 25 year old series 1 MX5 every day , and I can actually ENJOY DRIVING it. I can stir through the gears , get a little slip on demand , don't have to worry about numerous ECUs waiting to disintegrate and throw a wobbly , reach just below the red line in more gears than my numerical proficiency allows me to count to , and all without getting anywhere near the legal limit , which means that I can enjoy the driving , rather than spending far too much time looking in my rear view mirror for flashing lights , or looking into the far distant horizon only for yellow and red stripes . And there is no answer that I know of to unmarked cars .


Others have spoken about the joys of engine , induction and exhaust music , and again I am all there with you . Surely sound is such an integral part of the whole experience , and such a major contributor to the enjoyment .


Yet others have spoken about the pleasure of just owning a car (and yes , you don't have to have a supercar to enjoy any of this , any car will do equally well . I remember getting my first pay cheque , for which I worked 16 hours a day , 12 days a fortnight , which was £600/month .
And at that time , admittedly 33 years ago , the back pages of Autocar told me it would take me almost 10 years to buy a Countach if I didn't eat , drink or rent a roof . But I got a huge amount of fun from both owning and DRIVING my UNO 70S.). I too just love looking at some cars
So , this thread , if it is to carry a message to manufacturers , is equally valid in the supermini forum , as it is in the supercar forum , so anyone with anything constructive to say , whetehr you own a supercar or not , please contribute .


To move on to the next step then , what should we be telling the manufacturers we want ?

-Well a good torque to weight ratio , would be my first ask , and this preferably achieved through low mass
-Throw away all the unnecessary diver aids , they just detract ----maybe i'd just accept servo'ed brakes .
-high revving naturally aspirated petrol engines , and hang the emissions
-sensible gear ratios , designed for driving pleasure rather than fuel economy
-safe grip , but not over-rubbered like just about every 200 mph capable supercar has to have to safely reach this almost never arrived at top speed
-great engine , and exhaust sound ---- mandatory , and again hang the noise pollution----its going to be a very silent world when electric cars rule the planet.( ? just where is all this clean electricity going to come from ? And the Hydrogen fuel cell remains just as elusive as it was 10 years ago !!)

Have to go to the evening job now , what with all this rising petrol price , but i'd like to come back again please , to talk about some other topics that have been raised :

- latest vs genuine greatest
- Kings Rd vs A road
- cost vs value (yes , we are not all millionaires , and we do have to look at cost ---and anyway only a fool wouldn't )
- variety of cars being the spice of motoring life
- Lambo Rambo's carbon fetish , and how to get a bargain basement Zonda Cinque Roadster

Sleep tight everyone








i



RamboLambo

4,843 posts

122 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
Long live the naturally aspirated engine !

MDL111

4,248 posts

129 months

Thursday 7th June 2018
quotequote all
Andy-6ufnp said:
I'm lucky enough to be able to afford a 458/McLaren/Lamborghini/Porsche or other supercars and I think they are fabulous cars with their looks, their sound, performance and of course street cred. I really do love 'em and I'm tempted on many occasions to buy one just for the 'occasion' and their aura. But you can't use their performance, it's really difficult to get them to a speed where they start to work and feel like a supercar.
I'm not one for driving up and down the high street either showing off like some do.

I just think everyone whose got one of these has missed a big trick. I've got an Alfa 4C, it's small, it's nimble, it's very quick, it sounds (for a 4 cylinder turbo) brilliant and best of all it's an absolute hoot to drive, a real event every time I go anywhere. It's a whole lot less frustrating to drive than a proper supercar as you can work it hard, rev it out without doing massively silly speeds and generally feel like your getting something back from the car rather than cruising around being unable to give your car the beans.One a Euro trip last year I could'nt have gone any faster in reality than a Ferrari or whatever but I bet you I was having the best fun.
I genuinely think that many people miss a trick, like Colin Chapman was ramming down our throats so many years ago, it's lightness that counts not horsepower or street cred.
If you are a true petrolhead you want to be able to wring out your car on a regular basis without becoming an outcast through silly speeds, you get that from cars similar to mine, like Elises etc. They are the true drivers cars not the big HP super cars being touted these days.
I would love one, if only a manual was available .....

notax

2,009 posts

191 months

Friday 8th June 2018
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It is still possible to enjoy driving a supercar, as well as the enjoyment many gain from just owning one. I regularly organise hoons for fellow petrol heads and have done for many years - see my post on this forum - there is one this weekend. You need to chose your time and location and I’m pleased to say that none of my attendees have ever picked up a speeding ticket.

I personally like driving cars which slip and slide and involve the driver - I’ve owned MX5s and supercars at the same time. I’m not a big fan of speed for speed’s sake and personally find 4wd cars such as 911 turbos and GTRs too fast and uninvolving on the road. My McLaren is arguably too fast, it certainly would be for central London roads, but it is massive fun and can be enjoyed safely in the right hands and at the right time and place...

I agree that the days of us being able to enjoy the full potential of supercars on the road may be nearing its end - so I’m keen to keep on hooning whilst we can driving

Bispal

613 posts

103 months

Friday 15th June 2018
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carspath said:
More than a few of you have stated that you enjoy your classics .
Well , I couldn't agree more . I drive a 140,000mile , 25 year old series 1 MX5 every day , and I can actually ENJOY DRIVING it. I can stir through the gears , get a little slip on demand , don't have to worry about numerous ECUs waiting to disintegrate and throw a wobbly , reach just below the red line in more gears than my numerical proficiency allows me to count to , and all without getting anywhere near the legal limit , which means that I can enjoy the driving , rather than spending far too much time looking in my rear view mirror for flashing lights ,
I think, OP, that this is a very relevant post. I have just sold my McLaren after 30 months of ownership because at 75mph on a UK M-Way it could have been a Golf. If I put my foot down on B roads I would very, very quickly be doing speeds that could get me into a lot of trouble.

I adored my McLaren and would buy another. However I wanted something I could enjoy more at less worrying speeds. My dad always told me if you buy a fast car make sure its fun to drive slow. And if you buy a slow car make sure its fun to drive fast. And I think there is a lot of truth in that.

Like you I have a Mk1 MX5 which I use as a daily. It has a standard 1.8 engine but very good after market suspension. I can thrash it to the red line in every gear and it can hold its pace through the corners. All at around road legal speeds. I prefer the interaction of the manual gearbox and have time to feel the car, consider my inputs and react to the car. This was not possible in the McLaren. On a recent outing to Dunsfold with 30 McLarens it kept up no problem and we had a lot of fun and didn't get bored / frustrated at driving at or around the speed limits. Of course on track it would be eaten alive!

Instead of the Mclaren I bought a new Exige 350 sport. This is the perfect car for UK roads. Incerdibly fast and reactive but not 'too' fast. If you enjoy driving light weight manual cars are the way to go.

However Supercars are not all about driving, like having a good watch, bike, shirt, etc. For some people enjoyment can be attained by just owning the cars, They will polish their supercars, peacock them round central London and indulge in the wost (IMHO) passtime of all, static revving. I am sure these owners really enjoy being seen in their supercars but do they get the same enjoyment 'driving' their supercars as an enthusiast?

A true enthusiast driver will extract fun from any car, they won't mind being 'seen' in an MX5 or a 675LT, to them the drive is the enjoyment, interaction and feeling of the car.

Supercar owners fall into 2 main camps. The 'enthusiasts' and the 'peacocks'. Enthusiasts will enjoy any decent car on a decent road while no-one is watching, peacocks enjoy the feeling a supercar gives them and would not want to be seen in a lesser car.