Engine rebuild

Engine rebuild

Author
Discussion

jakesmith

4,500 posts

115 months

Wednesday 5th December 2018
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4321go said:
Errrrrr? Nope, I’m pretty sure that I interpreted Mr. Smith’s line of enquiry correctly as gentle banter and a lampooning of just such attitudes. This is, after all, a thread about an intergalactic Lambo!

But let’s not get sidetracked. Questions and advice welcome in equal measure......
Yes! Sorry was just teasing, in contrast a chap in the Ferarri forum has just done 88 miles in 12 months

Back on track, Ricky has just done some work on my engine last month and he is a top bloke you're in very safe hands there, his background is Audi where I believe he worked on the development of the V8 4.2 FSi and the RS6 V10 which both have much in common with the Lambo V10 as I understand it

4321go

Original Poster:

480 posts

131 months

Monday 10th December 2018
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Ricky performed his due diligence on the engine last week and sent me the following email on Friday, with a couple of accompanying videos........



Morning Simon,

How are you?

I hope this weather isn’t making the day job too uncomfortable?

How is the new steed?

I have gone over the Lamborghini as discussed and have found the following.

There is a slight oil leak from the oil pump assembly underneath, but this is only slight (maybe a few drips if left parked up for a few days).

There is also residue on the outside of the AC compressor, it appears to be the internal oil.

On start-up (hot or cold) the vehicle emits blue smoke as we discussed.

I started by removing the intake system and throttle bodies and checking inside the inlet manifold for excessive oil, its relatively clean on both banks.

Certainly not enough to be concerned about regardless of your complaint. This also proves the engine breather system is not overwhelmed or the cause of the issue as all the hoses are free from blockage.

I then removed all the spark plugs and used a camera down the bores, I have taken some videos for you which I will send over on the phone.

A number of bores had significant amounts of oil in (been standing around 2 hours) as well as debris. A number of bore also show evidence of vertical score marks along the major and minor thrust faces of the cylinder walls.

A cold compression test with the throttle bodies removed, injectors disconnected, and a battery charger fitted presented the following:

1. 165 psi 6. 140 psi
2. 170 psi 7. 145 psi
3. 150 psi 8. 145 psi
4. 150 psi 9. 130 psi
5. 145 psi 10. 150 psi

We have a 40 psi (23%) variance across the best to worst cylinders, anything over 5 would be a concern.

At this point, and considering the video evidence, a cylinder leak down test won’t help us much more. Whether the loss of compression is piston ring or valve related the engine would need to come out for remedial work.

I will get on with getting numbers together for you, so we have a ball park area for costs.

On another note, not one person can believe the mileage!

I have seen cars with 10% of the mileage in far worse condition!

Have a lovely Friday.

Kindest regards Ricky

Ricky Elder | REPerformance





GG33

1,006 posts

145 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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Looking forward to future posts on this thread..

GG

PompeyReece

562 posts

33 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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Ricky certainly knows his stuff. But 105,000 miles is damn good going.

Do keep us updated, really interesting thread!

jakesmith

4,500 posts

115 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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I didn’t know these engines were prone to scored bores I thought that was more a 2.0tfsi thing and the Porsche m97s

I guess it can happen to any engine in theory and in all likelihood this is the first time a V10 Lambo engine has run up to that mileage

Glad you get the ‘how are you’ on your email from Ricky, I get that too. Hopefully the cheerful demeanor will help soften the blow of the likely rebuild cost smile


the tribester

513 posts

30 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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And there was me worried about paying the cost of the current oil consumption.

I'll have to sit down to continue reading your updates!




willy wombat

367 posts

92 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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While I am more a "Ferrari person" than a "Lambo person", at the end of the day I am a "car person" (who believes cars should be used) and I am also finding this thread very interesting. Look forward to the updates and hope it doesn't end up being too painful.

Trev450

5,752 posts

116 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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Interesting. As already mentioned, this is probably the first engine to have covered those sort of miles that Ricky has worked on. This thread will therefore make for compelling reading.

El Guapo

2,787 posts

134 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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I'm amazed that people consider 105k to be "galactic" mileage on a 13-14 year-old car. Sure, its higher than most Gallardos of similar age, but it should be nicely bedded in now. The V10 is not known for being fragile.
The engine damage described is possibly a result of being thrashed from cold (not necessarily by the OP).
Regardless, good luck with the rebuild, and I hope you keep driving it regularly.

Never you mind

1,399 posts

56 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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Cool thread and good on you OP for clocking up 105K miles on your car. Are you on first name terms with your local petrol station?

4321go

Original Poster:

480 posts

131 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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El Guapo said:
I'm amazed that people consider 105k to be "galactic" mileage on a 13-14 year-old car. Sure, its higher than most Gallardos of similar age, but it should be nicely bedded in now. The V10 is not known for being fragile.
The engine damage described is possibly a result of being thrashed from cold (not necessarily by the OP).
Regardless, good luck with the rebuild, and I hope you keep driving it regularly.
Actually, you’re wrong on both counts! I know the first owner(s). New, it was bought jointly by two long-standing members of the HPC (some readers may be familiar with the club?). At the time one of them was also running a Carrera GT, among other cars. It was driven frequently and hard, on both road and track by experienced supercar owners with a high degree of mechanical sympathy and serviced on the button. At a little over 4 years old, it was moved on. It then went through two subsequent owners, who appeared to cover comparatively few miles. I purchased it at 42k miles and have covered a further 64k miles in a little over 5 years. I never use it for short trips and never give it the beans until it’s good and warm. Over the last 21 years, only one of my daily-drivers has not been a mid-engined sports car. The Gallardo is actually the most “mass produced” car that I’ve owned since I was a kid!

As for fragility, as installed in the Gallardo the engine is very well known for bore wear! As they age, the catalytic converters start to disintegrate and particles big and small are drawn back into the engine, scoring the bores. Plenty of these engines have failed catastrophically (is that a pun?) and at a fraction of the mileage on mine, when large pieces of the cats have been pulled back in. In my case, I’ve probably been lucky! I didn’t de-cat it until it had covered over 90k miles. Knocking the cats on my garage workbench will release a small shower of particles the size of grains of sand. This has almost certainly caused the bore scoring. Much longer in place and the aging cats would probably have caused a seizure! The small number of specialists who know these cars well will tell you to de-cat them ASAP. I mentioned to Ricky that it’d already been de-catted and his reply was, “Good! The cats will always destroy these engines eventually.” He was the third specialist to confirm this!

I think that Ricky’s closing comment sums it up! It may be a high mileage car, but it’s always been properly looked after. Hence his opinion that he’s seen cars in much worse condition with a fraction of the mileage under their wheels. But these engines wear! It’s just that most owners will never use them enough to notice......

Edited by 4321go on Tuesday 11th December 18:08


Edited by 4321go on Tuesday 11th December 19:08

4321go

Original Poster:

480 posts

131 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Never you mind said:
Cool thread and good on you OP for clocking up 105K miles on your car. Are you on first name terms with your local petrol station?
drinkdrinkdrinkdrinkdrink

....... but no! Almost exclusively Tesco’s pay-at-pump! And rarely Super, either wink

selym

7,145 posts

115 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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4321go said:
drinkdrinkdrinkdrinkdrink

....... but no! Almost exclusively Tesco’s pay-at-pump! And rarely Super, either wink
Hero! Sticking it to the man (Tesco's!)

200Plus Club

6,531 posts

222 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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Similar issues arise with the mr2 on such cheaper scale lol. Cats breaking up seems such a silly way to lose engines.

4321go

Original Poster:

480 posts

131 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
selym said:
4321go said:
drinkdrinkdrinkdrinkdrink

....... but no! Almost exclusively Tesco’s pay-at-pump! And rarely Super, either wink
Hero! Sticking it to the man (Tesco's!)
I suspect that the time taken to restore the car to me will coincide with a noticeable loss of profits for my local Tesco!

selym

7,145 posts

115 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
4321go said:
I suspect that the time taken to restore the car to me will coincide with a noticeable loss of profits for my local Tesco!
People being laid off,; is that what you want....cos that's what's gonna happen!

Superleg48

691 posts

77 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
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Hey OP, I don’t want to derail the thread, but I noted your comment about folk recommending that these are decatted ASAP. Any quick pointers to where this can be done and also how does that impact MOT Emissions? Surely would cause issues?

Never you mind

1,399 posts

56 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
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^^^^^


What he said. I would be interested in hearing more. My Gallardo needs more noise I think biggrin

4321go

Original Poster:

480 posts

131 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
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Since I bought the car, over five years ago, all of my maintenance has been performed by a main dealer. And I’ve received superb advice and service throughout. But do bear in mind that main dealers rarely handle cars with such mileages. Nor are Lambo going to put out a memo saying that the cats, required to homologate the vehicle, will eventually destroy the engine. And unlike the known failings of, for example, the Porsche 996, these cars aren’t produced in the required quantities or driven for the required mileages for such failures to be well known outside of a small circle.

Over the last few years I’ve discussed this with both Backdraft Motorsport and Buckinghamshire High Performance (BHP) who both confirmed that the anecdotal evidence that I had read online, was indeed true. Eventually, with oil consumption increasing, I was persuaded by Sonny at BHP to decat the engine. As an aside, he told me that he will not sell a car without decating it first.

As I said above, I think that I was probably lucky. I’ve heard of these engines lunching on their cats at a fraction of the miles that mine has covered. I wonder if the lack of short journeys and town driving has contributed to my cats remaining in predominantly good condition for so long?

And again as above, when I mentioned the decat to Ricky, his immediate reaction was to approve of the move on the grounds that, in his experience too, they are responsible for bore scoring and engine failures.......

4321go

Original Poster:

480 posts

131 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
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I used ceramic coated bypass pipes supplied by BHP. Pretty easy to fit and retain the original lambda sensors. About 16,000 miles now and no issues with spurious engine warning lights. I already had an OEM Superleggera exhaust fitted (brand new and £155 on eBay from a scrap metal merchant who didn’t really know what he was selling; thankfully, all the rest f you missed it!!). Decatted, the noise is ABSOLUTELY EPIC (feel free to comment, Lambodave!). And it shoots blue flames that you can actually see in the rear view mirror at night!!!

MoT? Yes, you need cats to pass........