Engine rebuild

Engine rebuild

Author
Discussion

Raven Flyer

1,551 posts

174 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
That gas flow work looks like it could release some interesting extra power!

rkanaga

286 posts

170 months

Tuesday 14th January
quotequote all
rossyl said:
Amazing thread

A questions if you don't mind

- Do de-catted cars pass MOT requirements, or, are you refitting the CATs before an MOT?

- Also, is there any way at all to tell if your pre-LP Gallardo's CATs are disintegrating?


Yes I was wondering that as well

That V10 is a thing of beauty seen like that though!

Thanks very much

4321go

Original Poster:

518 posts

137 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
A couple of short updates today. I promised “ancillaries”, but first.......

Remember the talk on torque (plates)? Before the cylinder liners are honed to their final finish, thick aluminium plates are bolted down onto the block, deforming it in exactly the same way that the torqued-down cylinder heads do? And that was one of the things that delayed the final finishing of my block; the engineering company doing the machining had to make their own set as Ricky’s extant pair were too deep for their equipment to deal with?

Well, here are the “offending” items. A fairly hefty investment in billet aluminium for what is an uncommon operation on a relatively rare engine!


olv

80 posts

165 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
Well I suppose you could make some furniture from them to get your money worth.

Superleg48

805 posts

83 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
They could be exotic speaker carcasses for the latest B&O creation....

4321go

Original Poster:

518 posts

137 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
Oh, they’re perfectly usable! Just not by the company that Ricky was using. That’s not to say that they won’t be used for their intended purpose in the future.........

4321go

Original Poster:

518 posts

137 months

Friday 17th January
quotequote all
As for the ancillaries.....

All of the ancillaries are accessible with the engine in situ, so there’s no need to replace any of them as a precaution whilst the engine is out, as is sometimes done with (for example) water pumps when servicing cam belts. And none of the various pumps, etc. are “serviceable” in the conventional sense. Their component pieces aren’t available separately. When they fail, then there’s little option but to replace the whole unit. And we’re talking Lambo prices here! So it’s a case of, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”

That said......

The water pump was stripped and inspected. There was little wear, so it’s been reassembled and refitted. A new water pump is £684 (inc.)

Same goes for the oil pump (Praise the Lord!!).

If the oil pump fails in a “wet sump” engine then the oil pressure will immediately drop and the red warning light will illuminate on your dash. If you’re sensible and pull over/switch off immediately, then you might get lucky and cause no damage whatsoever! Continue running without oil pressure for a few seconds and you may need a crank grind and new camshafts.

But with a “dry sump” engine two oil pumps are required, although they’re usually combined into the one unit. The “feed” pump feeds the oil galleries with pressurised lubricating oil. Once it’s done it’s lubrication work, the oil falls to the bottom of the engine, from where it is sucked up by the “scavenge” pump (or “pumps”) and returned to the remote oil tank. There is very little volume beneath the crank in which oil can pool. So the scavenge pump must have a higher capacity than the feed pump, to ensure that all of the feed oil is scavenged back to the oil tank and that none remains pooled below crank.

If the scavenge pump fails in a dry sump engine, then in a very short space of time, there will be enough oil accumulated in the bottom of the engine to cause an hydraulic lock. In simple terms, with the pistons thrashing up and down above accumulating oil, sooner rather than later the engine will be trying to compress the incompressible oil. The next event will be catastrophic engine failure. All this goes some way to explaining the cost of a replacement oil pump (that, and the fact that it has a Lamborghini bull cast into it!): £3966 (Yes, you read that right.....)

This (and the cost of a new crank) was one of the reasons why I decided to have my engine rebuilt. Having de-catted it and therefore removed the most likely cause of failure, I could have probable continued to happily run it for many thousand of miles more, as long as I poured oil in (remember: 4 litres or more per thousand miles of gentle driving, and a litre per hundred miles when pressing on!!). But if the engine had gone bang, then in addition to the work that we’ve already undertaken, you could have added (as a minimum) a new crankshaft (£4626) and oil pump (which would have almost certainly been damaged by debris in the oil).

As was, Ricky stripped, cleaned, inspected, declared healthy and reassembled my old pump.

Phew!

(This is what your £4000 buys you. Yes, all of it! Bargain, eh?)



The only ancillary that has required replacement is the HVAC pump (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning). Infrequently (but nonetheless, very annoyingly) in hot weather, when in traffic (or just driving slowly) after the engine had been working hard, the air con pump would cut in and the engine would immediately stall! This (I surmise) is because the pump was stuck at its highest setting. The pump has a variable angle swashplate allowing it’s capacity to be infinitely varied between zero and 100%. Stuck at 100%, when it’s internal clutch engaged, the engine was immediately robbed of enough power to cause it to stall!! A new Nippon-Denso HVAC pump (OEM) is £961. We’ve fitted an identical Lucas unit for less than half of that price.

The alternator and starter motor both sit low down in the engine bay. The back of the alternator was removed to clean out “organic debris” (read: leaf-mould and general crud!), but other than that, both work and were replaced untouched, save for a quick clean.


Edited by 4321go on Friday 17th January 22:53

Megaflow

6,878 posts

175 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
4321go said:
As for the ancillaries.....

All of the ancillaries are accessible with the engine in situ, so there’s no need to replace any of them as a precaution whilst the engine is out, as is sometimes done with (for example) water pumps when servicing cam belts. And none of the various pumps, etc. are “serviceable” in the conventional sense. Their component pieces aren’t available separately. When they fail, then there’s little option but to replace the whole unit. And we’re talking Lambo prices here! So it’s a case of, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”

That said......

The water pump was stripped and inspected. There was little wear, so it’s been reassembled and refitted. A new water pump is £684 (inc.)

Same goes for the oil pump (Praise the Lord!!).

If the oil pump fails in a “wet sump” engine then the oil pressure will immediately drop and the red warning light will illuminate on your dash. If you’re sensible and pull over/switch off immediately, then you might get lucky and cause no damage whatsoever! Continue running without oil pressure for a few seconds and you may need a crank grind and new camshafts.

But with a “dry sump” engine two oil pumps are required, although they’re usually combined into the one unit. The “feed” pump feeds the oil galleries with pressurised lubricating oil. Once it’s done it’s lubrication work, the oil falls to the bottom of the engine, from where it is sucked up by the “scavenge” pump (or “pumps”) and returned to the remote oil tank. There is very little volume beneath the crank in which oil can pool. So the scavenge pump must have a higher capacity than the feed pump, to ensure that all of the feed oil is scavenged back to the oil tank and that none remains pooled below crank.

If the scavenge pump fails in a dry sump engine, then in a very short space of time, there will be enough oil accumulated in the bottom of the engine to cause an hydraulic lock. In simple terms, with the pistons thrashing up and down above accumulating oil, sooner rather than later the engine will be trying to compress the incompressible oil. The next event will be catastrophic engine failure. All this goes some way to explaining the cost of a replacement oil pump (that, and the fact that it has a Lamborghini bull cast into it!): £3966 (Yes, you read that right.....)

This (and the cost of a new crank) was one of the reasons why I decided to have my engine rebuilt. Having de-catted it and therefore removed the most likely cause of failure, I could have probable continued to happily run it for many thousand of miles more, as long as I poured oil in (remember: 4 litres or more per thousand miles of gentle driving, and a litre per hundred miles when pressing on!!). But if the engine had gone bang, then in addition to the work that we’ve already undertaken, you could have added (as a minimum) a new crankshaft (£4626) and oil pump (which would have almost certainly been damaged by debris in the oil).

As was, Ricky stripped, cleaned, inspected, declared healthy and reassembled my old pump.

Phew!

(This is what your £4000 buys you. Yes, all of it! Bargain, eh?)



The only ancillary that has required replacement is the HVAC pump (Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning). Infrequently (but nonetheless, very annoyingly) in hot weather, when in traffic (or just driving slowly) after the engine had been working hard, the air con pump would cut in and the engine would immediately stall! This (I surmise) is because the pump was stuck at its highest setting. The pump has a variable angle swashplate allowing it’s capacity to be infinitely varied between zero and 100%. Stuck at 100%, when it’s internal clutch engaged, the engine was immediately robbed of enough power to cause it to stall!! A new Nippon-Denso HVAC pump (OEM) is £961. We’ve fitted an identical Lucas unit for less than half of that price.

The alternator and starter motor both sit low down in the engine bay. The back of the alternator was removed to clean out “organic debris” (read: leaf-mould and general crud!), but other than that, both work and were replaced untouched, save for a quick clean.


Edited by 4321go on Friday 17th January 22:53
Four grand for an oil pump!

yikes

As a Cost Engineer for an engine manufacturer, I am not going to tell you what my quick back of fag packet cost, not price, from the photo to have posted is, I don't like to make grown men cry!

hehe

200Plus Club

6,907 posts

228 months

Saturday 18th January
quotequote all
I'm guestimating less than £100?

Raven Flyer

1,551 posts

174 months

Wednesday 22nd January
quotequote all
200Plus Club said:
I'm guestimating less than £100?
For a run of a 1000, I agree.

As a one off, machined from billets, it would still be way below the price that Lambo are asking.