BAD BAD Ferrari News

BAD BAD Ferrari News

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manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

235 months

Friday 27th September 2002
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As of October 1st - all Ferrari parts prices are to rise - and rise fairly horrendously.
My insiders tell me some parts have risen to 180% of their original price whilst for example the price of the rear 3/4 glass panel on the F355 will roughly treble.
I mean it guys - this isn't funny and the parts were hardly "cheap" before. Perhaps Fiat is really trying to extract the last $ from Ferrari to stem the billions that it's losing.
Some parts will rise more than others but as far as I know it's going to be a fairly dramatic increase.

If you are running an old 12 cylinder, or indeed an old 8 on the basis that it would be cheap - it's really not funny.

marki

15,763 posts

242 months

Friday 27th September 2002
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they are extracting the pi@s and the $$$

shadowninja

72,361 posts

254 months

Friday 27th September 2002
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that's a bugger. looks like a market niche for creating 3rd party spares?

jhoneyball

1,646 posts

248 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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Well what do you expect from a company that moved from chain camshaft drive to rubber belts? Chains last forever (well, the double chain at the front of my AM V8 Vantage does -- RSW knows of no failures, period) and rubber belts need changing every 3 years.

Which handily enough means engine out on almost all recent Ferraris.

Which handily enough means a wodge of work for the Ferrari service centers.

And when you consider that many Ferraris do 2k miles per year (if the adverts are anything to go by) then its an engine out job every 6k miles. Which is pretty scandelous.

It props up a well-fed dealer network -- and they put the prices up on parts.

Contrast to AM who have just had the gorgeous rare-as-hens-teeth Ronal wheel remade. They could have fleeced us for them, but no -- 350 quid a wheel, Sir. They have made 400 of them, and had 80 grand of up-front tooling cost alone, let alone all the testing, approval, shipping, manufacturing costs. What would Fiat have charged for an equivalent? The mind boggles.

radial valve

26 posts

232 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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Jhoneyball


Thats a good point, however, the dealer margins will stay the same despite a hike in prices as the dealer network will have to buy it's parts from the importer and it is they who would have put up the price.

A usual excuse is the exchange rate (this has been getting worse recently due to a stronger euro)

Single currency anyone?

Dont forget though that the Block Exemption rule changes soon. The direct result is an expected loss of profit as direct imports hit the "official" importers. If you were them you would milk the market and any profit opportunity for what it's worth while you can.

On a technical point the 360 (same as the F40) has a hatch built into the bulkhead behind the seats which means cambelts can be changed without engine removal.

This won't help anyone with other models who bought Ferraris from 308 GT4 though (first V8 road car and first with belts).

Talking of which, am I weird or am I the only guy who thinks this very cheap ( 15K for an absolute minter) and often overlooked Bertone classic is a must have in the old "fantasy garage"?



radial valve

26 posts

232 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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Jhoneyball


Thats a good point, however, the dealer margins will stay the same despite a hike in prices as the dealer network will have to buy it's parts from the importer and it is they who would have put up the price.

A usual excuse is the exchange rate (this has been getting worse recently due to a stronger euro)

Single currency anyone?

Dont forget though that the Block Exemption rule changes soon. The direct result is an expected loss of profit as direct imports hit the "official" importers. If you were them you would milk the market and any profit opportunity for what it's worth while you can.

On a technical point the 360 (same as the F40) has a hatch built into the bulkhead behind the seats which means cambelts can be changed without engine removal.

This won't help anyone with other models who bought Ferraris from 308 GT4 though (first V8 road car and first with belts).

Talking of which, am I weird or am I the only guy who thinks this very cheap ( 15K for an absolute minter) and often overlooked Bertone classic is a must have in the old "fantasy garage"?



radial valve

26 posts

232 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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I have heard through the grapvine that there is some more bad news to come for 575 owners. (watch this space)

And what about the terrible resale prices on 550?

Not that I could afford one but blimey!

I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck with a left hand drive one. They must be unmoveable at the moment.

Now with a price hike on parts I guess you would really want to pay a bit more for a "cheap" right hander from a dealer to make sure you have one of the special warrenties that official dealers give you which mean your car must not be due a belt change within a fair amount of time etc. etc.

A mate "in the trade" recently bought a 99T 550 with 25,000 miles on it for, wait for it....... 60K. He asked me to give her a mechanical "once over" and she was perfect, no paintwork needed or had previously. Mint.

This is the steal of the centry isn't it?

I saw the invoice (and the cheque) with my very own eyes!!!

radial valve

26 posts

232 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
quotequote all


I have heard through the grapvine that there is some more bad news to come for 575 owners. (watch this space)

And what about the terrible resale prices on 550?

Not that I could afford one but blimey!

I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck with a left hand drive one. They must be unmoveable at the moment.

Now with a price hike on parts I guess you would really want to pay a bit more for a "cheap" right hander from a dealer to make sure you have one of the special warrenties that official dealers give you which mean your car must not be due a belt change within a fair amount of time etc. etc.

A mate "in the trade" recently bought a 99T 550 with 25,000 miles on it for, wait for it....... 60K. He asked me to give her a mechanical "once over" and she was perfect, no paintwork needed or had previously. Mint.

This is the steal of the centry isn't it?

I saw the invoice (and the cheque) with my very own eyes!!!

jhoneyball

1,646 posts

248 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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quote:



I have heard through the grapvine that there is some more bad news to come for 575 owners. (watch this space)




you mean they are gonna do a set of mods to make it drive properly? And they are not retrofitable, or it costs an arm and a leg? That will go down like a bowl of cold sick to those who have bought already?

quote:

And what about the terrible resale prices on 550?

Not that I could afford one but blimey!

I certainly wouldn't want to be stuck with a left hand drive one. They must be unmoveable at the moment.



Well, the markets are all screwed up at the minute. I wouldnt want to be selling an exotic at the moment (and no my vantage isnt up for sale....)

quote:

A mate "in the trade" recently bought a 99T 550 with 25,000 miles on it for, wait for it....... 60K. He asked me to give her a mechanical "once over" and she was perfect, no paintwork needed or had previously. Mint.

This is the steal of the centry isn't it?



Actually, no. Steal of the Century is a 512BB for 40k. But thats cos i dont like modern ferraris

radial valve

26 posts

232 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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Oh jhoneyball

A man after my own heart. How much better to hear the sound of the BBs carbed. V12 than the BBi. And that shape!!!!!!!

Was she was right or left hand drive?

I had the pleasure of driving the last right hand drive car imported to the UK. (This of course was an injected version) This was up for sale in 96 for 70K then (from an official dealer as well). Low milage etc.etc. so perhaps 40K isn't so cheap?

And may I say, any buyers need to be real men to pump that clutch,not a pussy who buys an F1 who then uses the excuse of quicker gear changes for his choice of transmission.

PS This is almost what I heard re: 575 any more gossip?








jhoneyball

1,646 posts

248 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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no i havent owned a 512bb -- but i was looking at places like talacrest and thinking "why do people spend twice as much on a bug-eyed 360?"

Shall I go hide now? :-)

jon

iguana

6,859 posts

232 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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quote:






308 GT4 (first V8 road car and first with belts).

Talking of which, am I weird or am I the only guy who thinks this very cheap ( 15K for an absolute minter) and often overlooked Bertone classic is a must have in the old "fantasy garage"?







Nope I like 'em too. Dunno if I could even fit in one tho, as once I tried to drive a 328 and I just couldnt fit in the thing, then I realized why Magnum diddnt drive a hard top...

456mgt

2,491 posts

238 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
quotequote all
quote:

no i havent owned a 512bb -- but i was looking at places like talacrest and thinking "why do people spend twice as much on a bug-eyed 360?"
jon


Because they wanted a 'bug-eyed 360' and not a 512BB. It's easy really- we don't all think the same. It may also have something to do with one being a modern car and the other not. Doesn't mean that you can't appreciate the older car, one of my friends owns one and I think it's lovely. All it means is that I don't want to own one at the moment. If you feel differently, that's fine, and if you feel that strongly about it you can spend your own money on one. As you say, the state of the markets is such that now is a very good time to buy any discretionary item.

Thom

2,745 posts

245 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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Ferrari...they've always been best at making money...

456mgt

2,491 posts

238 months

Saturday 28th September 2002
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quote:

Ferrari...they've always been best at making money...


Actually they aren't. I believe Porsche is the most profitable at the mo'. Doesn't mean to say I like the increase in parts prices, if it is correct. It may have something to do with the fact that 80% of all Ferrari ever built are still with us, getting older, and needing parts to be remanufactured. At todays cost, regardless of the value of the car. Some back of the envelope calculations indicate that suplying parts for old cars is pretty horrible as a business (inventory & cash flow). Just in case someone spies an opportunity for pattern parts.....

308gt4

710 posts

232 months

Sunday 29th September 2002
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quote:


On a technical point the 360 (same as the F40) has a hatch built into the bulkhead behind the seats which means cambelts can be changed without engine removal.

This won't help anyone with other models who bought Ferraris from 308 GT4 though (first V8 road car and first with belts).

Talking of which, am I weird or am I the only guy who thinks this very cheap ( 15K for an absolute minter) and often overlooked Bertone classic is a must have in the old "fantasy garage"?



Being an owner of a GT4 for some time now I can honestly say that you don't need to take the engine out to change the belts on any of the transverse engined Fcars as they made a panel inside the right rear wheel well for easy removal which exposes the "front" of the engine and it takes no more than a few hours to change the belts (you normally change all belts, A/C, cam, alternator, etc) at a cost of about 200GBP including labour.This happens every 3 years or 20K kms.
When they made the V8 engines longitudinal they put a removable firewall panel behind the seats for this very purpose but the flat 12s were mostly engine removals (eg Testarossa/Boxer )

The belts were used as they were quieter and more reliable than the triplex chains although I must admit I'd feel more peace of mind if mine had chains

manu

Original Poster:

768 posts

235 months

Sunday 29th September 2002
quotequote all
Talacrest DO have a 365GT4BB yes - and the reason these cars are so cheap is because of the running costs.
I love this car as well, but you have to remember that they were built in an era where Ferraris were very different cars. They were made to go very fast, look great and sound sensational - and that's IT - reliabilty was a secondary issue because back in those days Ferraris were truly millionaires toys - and this is DEFINITELY not true today.
Moreover they were a function of Enzo preferences for a car - driving postions and visibilty for the customer came LAST.

What is really strange though is certain peoples reactions to the modern cars. They are up in arms about the "looks" etc, and yet they don't notice the new cars are leagues more reliable, comfy and easy to drive and essentially PERFECT - I've said this before - they do pretty much EVERYTHING well......

Each to their own I suppose.

The parts price-increase has been initiated by Fiat.




ninja_eli

1,524 posts

239 months

Sunday 29th September 2002
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quote:

And may I say, any buyers need to be real men to pump that clutch,not a pussy who buys an F1 who then uses the excuse of quicker gear changes for his choice of transmission.



What is so manly about having to work a very hard clutch? It can be uncomfortable, cumbersome, slower, and generally to the detriment of fast driving. So I take it in your opinion most formula one drivers are pussies? A well balanced car is one that doesn't cause undue and unnecessary grief for its driver. That includes the clutch. And no, I don't have an F1. But yes I do think you do make some lame comments. If you want to build up some muscles join a gym.

quote:

Actually, no. Steal of the Century is a 512BB for 40k. But thats cos i dont like modern ferraris



What is this crap about older Ferrari's and not liking the modern ones? Perhaps it due to the accessability and useability of the newers ones? Or are you looking at the older ones because they are cheaper? Each to their own but word of advice: Move with the times or else you'll get left behind, and the only people you'll be able to converse with regarding the subject will be "has been" engineers from another era who'll still piss and moan about how the older way of doing things was better. In some things maybe, but not when it comes to Ferrari's, or almost any car in terms of mechanicals.

quote:

no i havent owned a 512bb -- but i was looking at places like talacrest and thinking "why do people spend twice as much on a bug-eyed 360?"



Because they are new cars. And bad cars. And f**king fast cars. And safe cars. And you get one with a warranty. And they come in a nice red. And they sound awesome with a tubi. And they have electric seats. Did I mention that they sound awesome? They are accomplished fast cars. They sound awesome. They look awesome. They sound awesome. etc etc. Who can be arsed with an old car thats likely to cause grief at any given moment? (not that all of them will, but you get my point) Also, if you think the 360 is bug eyed and I'll assume, unattractive, maybe you're not looking hard enough?

Regards

456mgt

2,491 posts

238 months

Sunday 29th September 2002
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Spot on Ninja. Spot on.

domster

8,428 posts

242 months

Monday 30th September 2002
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Re Chains, the 'chains never break' comment is extremely misguided because chains *do* break... if they are incorrectly made, lubricated or tensioned.

Famous chain failure cars include the Lotus Carlton (I had strengthened chains fitted and there were thousands of hours of discussion regarding this problem) and the 911 SCs. Tensioners are a wear item, even when chains aren't. The guide lining can get eaten away by the chain, and then one day the tensioner runs out of travel, chain goes slack, misses a cog and bang. Some chains are just too weak. The Lotus Carlton OEM chain is like chocolate - they have snapped on 22k mile cars.

Luckily, the AM Vantage duplex chain arrangement takes the major pain out of a chain snap, but I'd still watch those tensioners and never skimp on oil...

Cheers
Domster