RE: Maserati SUV?
Monday 30th September 2002
Maserati SUV?
Please no...
Discussion
The world of beautiful *cars* we once knew is coming to an end. I blame stupidity, starbucks sipping 5'2" housewives who insist that they must have the largest vehicle on the road, the US government for being the worlds largest oil pusher, and again... stupidity. I was entertaining the idea of maybe one day purchasing a Ferrari, but if this goes through they will be joining the ranks of Porsche as yet another auto manufacturer I will *never* support by purchasing a vehicle from.
Come on guys , if building and selling an SUV gives these companies more profit then that is a good thing , they then have more $$$ £££ EEE to ppend on development of Sports Cars , and it secures their future .
If you can not sell more sports cars and you need to grow why not an suv , as long as its an interesting suv , and yes they do exist and yes they do have a purpose .
If you can not sell more sports cars and you need to grow why not an suv , as long as its an interesting suv , and yes they do exist and yes they do have a purpose .
quote:
The world of beautiful *cars* we once knew is coming to an end. I blame stupidity, starbucks sipping 5'2" housewives who insist that they must have the largest vehicle on the road, the US government for being the worlds largest oil pusher, and again... stupidity. I was entertaining the idea of maybe one day purchasing a Ferrari, but if this goes through they will be joining the ranks of Porsche as yet another auto manufacturer I will *never* support by purchasing a vehicle from.
So what you are saying is that a car you have never seen ( or probably will never exist for that matter ) is going to be ugly
I don't understand why people get so upset when manufacturers diversify into new areas. If they didn't BMW wouldn't have made the X5 or the Mini, Vauxhall wouldn't have made the VX220 etc etc. These are all arguably best of breed ( or very close ) and have had a very positive effect on the manufacturers image, so whose to say Porsche or Maserati can't do the same.
Frostie
>> Edited by frostie on Monday 30th September 18:18
>> Edited by frostie on Monday 30th September 18:19
Wouldn't surprise me at all if this were true. I'm pretty certain Ferrari will develop Maserati into a (medium) volume brand in order to itself survive.
Automotive R&D is damned expensive, and getting more so, especially for a low volume manufacturer. As a car manufacturer, your income = unit price X volume; in Ferrari's case, both numbers are pretty much fixed. So there's a limit to how much Ferrari can ever make- this is apart from things like bumping up parts prices and selling Schumacher steering wheels. They also need economies of scale in a business with limited output.
Top monetarise their R&D, they need to get the volumes up. They can't do this without damaging the Ferrari brand, and Ferrari is ALL about brand. Cue Maserati, placed as a 'lesser' brand and therefore less sensitive to volume (exclusivity). They have the 4200 in both coupe & spider forms, and we saw the assembly line for the 4 door when we were over in Modena a few weeks ago. An SUV would not surprise me. You will get significant parts/R&D sharing which will make Maserati profitable, and Ferrari more so (volume components). I suspect reliability will improve too, so everybody *should* win.
>> Edited by 456mgt on Monday 30th September 20:57
Automotive R&D is damned expensive, and getting more so, especially for a low volume manufacturer. As a car manufacturer, your income = unit price X volume; in Ferrari's case, both numbers are pretty much fixed. So there's a limit to how much Ferrari can ever make- this is apart from things like bumping up parts prices and selling Schumacher steering wheels. They also need economies of scale in a business with limited output.
Top monetarise their R&D, they need to get the volumes up. They can't do this without damaging the Ferrari brand, and Ferrari is ALL about brand. Cue Maserati, placed as a 'lesser' brand and therefore less sensitive to volume (exclusivity). They have the 4200 in both coupe & spider forms, and we saw the assembly line for the 4 door when we were over in Modena a few weeks ago. An SUV would not surprise me. You will get significant parts/R&D sharing which will make Maserati profitable, and Ferrari more so (volume components). I suspect reliability will improve too, so everybody *should* win.
>> Edited by 456mgt on Monday 30th September 20:57
I agree that R&D can be expensive, for that reason the brands in order to save money they share components, factories and vehicles with two or three different logos in the bonnet.
Ok, but where is the SPIRIT, when I was 10 years old every new car was a fantastic revelation, nowadays a new car is a "box" with a wheel at each corner of body, no more than that.
I adore cars, but to be honest, each day I get more bored with the new ones, there’s no SOUL.
For that reason I support the idea that some brands should untouchable, guess what brands ???
Ok, but where is the SPIRIT, when I was 10 years old every new car was a fantastic revelation, nowadays a new car is a "box" with a wheel at each corner of body, no more than that.
I adore cars, but to be honest, each day I get more bored with the new ones, there’s no SOUL.
For that reason I support the idea that some brands should untouchable, guess what brands ???
The Lambos that you show are real off roaders not SUV. Ok, it's a question of interpretation but these cars were made by a company with more experience in off road than most of companies that sell SUV's nowadays.
Do you know why???
Because Lambo starts their life building Agriculture Tractors, and they still do, consult this :
www.lamborghini-tractors.com/eng/storia.html
As you can see only in the 60's Ferruccio Lamborghini decided to enter in sports car market; there's a very interesting legend involving Enzo Ferrari and Proud feelings. (I can explain that in other time if you are interested; but one thing you should know, Ferrucio made his own Sport Car because he wanted not because he suffer any pression from the Marketing staff)
Another point these Lambos, the LM 002, served special force armies in the Middle East, like the Hummer, what that means that this vehicle was made with clear and much defined objectives.
Not like some SUV that we can find in the streets…or we will find...
Consult this page: in the middle is explained how and why the LM002 appeared.
http://home.btconnect.com/focuslamborghini/history.html
As can see in those pages Lamborghini isn’t a “regular” company, instead of that is multi-character one capable of manufacter SPORT CARS, OFF ROAD VEHICLES, and TRACTORS.
Live your life, you only live once...
>> Edited by caribeiro on Tuesday 1st October 21:42
Do you know why???
Because Lambo starts their life building Agriculture Tractors, and they still do, consult this :
www.lamborghini-tractors.com/eng/storia.html
As you can see only in the 60's Ferruccio Lamborghini decided to enter in sports car market; there's a very interesting legend involving Enzo Ferrari and Proud feelings. (I can explain that in other time if you are interested; but one thing you should know, Ferrucio made his own Sport Car because he wanted not because he suffer any pression from the Marketing staff)
Another point these Lambos, the LM 002, served special force armies in the Middle East, like the Hummer, what that means that this vehicle was made with clear and much defined objectives.
Not like some SUV that we can find in the streets…or we will find...
Consult this page: in the middle is explained how and why the LM002 appeared.
http://home.btconnect.com/focuslamborghini/history.html
As can see in those pages Lamborghini isn’t a “regular” company, instead of that is multi-character one capable of manufacter SPORT CARS, OFF ROAD VEHICLES, and TRACTORS.
Live your life, you only live once...
>> Edited by caribeiro on Tuesday 1st October 21:42
caribeiro,
I didn't want to compare the LM002 with a RAV4/M-Class/X5/Cayenne by calling it SUV.
The term SUV IMHO lacks of definition, but I can surely say, that a self-driving machine does not fit into the SUV-category.
BTW:
Years ago, I've read a book which quoted Enzo Ferrari in the 1970s saying "Signor Lamborghini? Isn't that the farmer who manufactures tractors?"
Porsche produced tractors as well; between 1950 and 1962 (ref: www.porsche-diesel-club.de ), however, that didn't stop them making the Cayenne a SUV!
cheers,
Bodo
I didn't want to compare the LM002 with a RAV4/M-Class/X5/Cayenne by calling it SUV.
The term SUV IMHO lacks of definition, but I can surely say, that a self-driving machine does not fit into the SUV-category.
BTW:
Years ago, I've read a book which quoted Enzo Ferrari in the 1970s saying "Signor Lamborghini? Isn't that the farmer who manufactures tractors?"
Porsche produced tractors as well; between 1950 and 1962 (ref: www.porsche-diesel-club.de ), however, that didn't stop them making the Cayenne a SUV! cheers,
Bodo
Porsche produced tractors as well; between 1950 and 1962 (ref: www.porsche-diesel-club.de ), however, that didn't stop them making the Cayenne a SUV! The difference here is necessity and "who rules is the market".
When brands start to make a car only because is a way to increase the profits (I don't censure them of doing that) but at least introduce new concepts, new ideas or useful technology.
Porsche in the past to survive like many others german companies in other fields had to build practical and useful machines to the people and for the people.
Nowadays Porsche create the Cayenne only because this kind of cars sells and they trust on their own image to sell even more.
The Cayenne it's a SUV, on road it will not behave like a 911 and off road please don't compare with real off road vehicle.
And now what we have, it’s useful, perhaps but the people who buys this only or 99% of time will drive on road, for that I buy a big Volvo or Mercedes or other similar cars.
Buying a Cayenne, only because it has on bonnet the Porsche logo, its nonsense.
Even more when I can buy the same car with the Volkswagen logo and cheaper.
The next time I enter in the Porsche stand, and I hope soon
, I will never choose a Cayenne, Porsche have better options to spend my money. The Spirit, it’s something difficult to define, but you can find more SPIRIT in one Land Rover Series, Mini, Citroen, Renault 4, Porsche 911, because all the features on these cars have a reason to be.
The man or team who made these cars build with a goal, and goal nowadays is quiet different from those times.
And they sold cars as well….
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